Verdict - Death Penalty/Capital Punishment

[stewie]

Today, Texas took the first big step in admitting it murdered an innocent man in its death chamber

That character in "The Life of David Gale" has just been invalidated, then.

"Don't mess with Texas", applies even if you're provably innocent, apparently.

[Schadenfreude]

It just seems like an appropriate punishment. You commit the ultimate crime, it's only fair that you get the ultimate punishment. It's practically the definition of "justice."

I don't feel uber-strongly about it, so if you want killers of babies and sweet old ladies to live a long and happy life, so be it. I'm not going to write any letters to any law makers pleading to preserve this form of punishment. Living in our prison system is probably worse than death anyways.

[connor]

It just seems like an appropriate punishment. You commit the ultimate crime, it's only fair that you get the ultimate punishment. It's practically the definition of "justice."

...

Go back and read the posts that resurrected this thread.

[sunlore]

But a good songwriter. One of the best in his time, according to Bob Dylan.

Please produce an actual quote and a source where Bob Dylan says this about Charles Manson.

I just remembered! This wasn't Dylan, it was Neil Young in a 70s interview with Belgian magazine Humo. Mes excuses, AJ!

Four years later!

[fedaykin13]

It just seems like an appropriate punishment. You commit the ultimate crime, it's only fair that you get the ultimate punishment. It's practically the definition of "justice."

.

and if wrong, the ultimate mistake.

[Schadenfreude]

I hedged my reply so well that I can never be wrong except the times that I am.

[steve]

It's practically the definition of "revenge."

FYP.

Revenge is a barbaric impulse on a par with rape. Our society should strive to suppress it. It certainly shouldn't be institutionalized.

I can't really discuss such a simplistic defense of capital punishment without instantly thinking less of the person who posits the defense, and I apologize for that.

[Jodi S.]

And there’s a picture—a Led Zeppelin picture of a falling angel. . . . I see there’s an association many times with cultive-type of activities. A focus on death, dying. Many times individuals that have a lot of this type of art have interest in satanic-type activities.”

What's the matter dude, don't you like Zep?

[fedaykin13]

has anyone ever heard this before?

Discussing this subject elsewhere, a sort of right wing guy said this:

My priest has given the explanation that the Catholic Church is that capital punishment is ok if there is no way to prevent the dangerous criminals from hurting again.

[MWilke]

Your priest is full of shit. The Vatican is officially opposed to capital punishment.

[connor]

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, in 2006, voted with a majority to uphold the death penalty in a Kansas case. In his opinion, Scalia declared that, in the modern judicial system, there has not been “a single case—not one—in which it is clear that a person was executed for a crime he did not commit. If such an event had occurred in recent years, we would not have to hunt for it; the innocent’s name would be shouted from the rooftops.”

[connor]

Your priest is full of shit. The Vatican is officially opposed to capital punishment.

Most U.S. priests are far, far to the right of the Vatican. The exception being abortion and contraception. Anything that has anything to do with those naughty pink-and-furry bits that the good lord cursed us with.

[MWilke]

Right, so how does that make this priest any less full of shit?

[connor]

Right, so how does that make this priest any less full of shit?

It doesn't. I'm agreeing with you. I just thought I'd point out how non-rightwing much of the Vatican's agenda is, and how people like Bill Donahue seem to ignore all of it except for the anti-abortion stuff.

[tommydski]

Revenge is a barbaric impulse...

Yup.

...on a par with rape.

Nope.

[Chromodynamic]

Your priest is full of shit. The Vatican is officially opposed to capital punishment.

Really? I thought the church would be okay with it, Aquinas' doctrine of double effect seems like a perfect way for them to wax philosophical about it's continued use.

[Ernest]

I remember what got me politically motivated, and made me aware of the gravity of capital punishment; it was the pending Timothy McVeigh execution. It was either in '98, or '99, and the media were covering the appeals process. I remember how pissed off I became at how hypocritical the entire idea is, that in order to punish for killings, a killing had to take place. I still feel the same way, more so now.

Death penalty advocates like seeing the punishment administered, that's all. That's the team they root for, and they want to see some scoring. They don't particularly care who, so long as people get executed.

It's a detestable mentality.

That's certainly not all, and it's a pretty insulting generalization to believe.

[connor]

I remember what got me politically motivated, and made me aware of the gravity of capital punishment; it was the pending Timothy McVeigh execution. It was either in '98, or '99, and the media were covering the appeals process. I remember how pissed off I became at how hypocritical the entire idea is, that in order to punish for killings, a killing had to take place. I still feel the same way, more so now.

Death penalty advocates like seeing the punishment administered, that's all. That's the team they root for, and they want to see some scoring. They don't particularly care who, so long as people get executed.

It's a detestable mentality.

That's certainly not all, and it's a pretty insulting generalization to believe.

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that most people, like myself, who find capital punishment to be absolutely abominable, probably don't care if anyone's feelings are hurt by such 'generalizations.'

If you support capital punishment being a part of our justice system, that means that your desire to see "guilty" people killed is so strong that you're willing to 'write-off' a few hundred/thousand innocent lives that are sure to be swallowed up on death row.

So yeah, that's a pretty gruesome position. Like Steve, I have a hard time talking to death-penalty supporters. My blood starts to boil over. I could barely read the New Yorker piece without wanting to choke someone.

[MWilke]

Also, it's fiscally irresponsible and wasteful.

[Ernest]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that most people, like myself, who find capital punishment to be absolutely abominable, probably don't care if anyone's feelings are hurt by such 'generalizations.'

So, generalizing isn't an idiotic thing to do if you agree with the sentiment?

If you support capital punishment being a part of our justice system, that means that your desire to see "guilty" people killed is so strong that you're willing to 'write-off' a few hundred/thousand innocent lives that are sure to be swallowed up on death row.

I genuinely have to ask if you ever converse with people outside your own ideological leanings, because this is pure crap. It means nothing of the sort if you're listening to them explain their position. It's a caricature. I've come across severely misguided people that equate the death penalty to a duty, tie it with nationalistic sentiment, "natural" law, is/ought bullshit, etc, but I've also heard rational arguments that, while I don't agree with, fundamentally don't revolve around your characterization of "desire", or not caring whether innocents get executed.