Relation between M/S and ambient A/B

[Razz]

This is more of a question for Steve because I see him using this setup most often than any other engineer I know of, but obviously anyone is welcomed to chime in.

I see when recording drums you often use a M/S or a Blumlein setup in front of a kit, along with a pair of delayed ambient microphones. The technicalities and reasons have already been discussed on this board( http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=32 ), but I did have a couple questions that maybe you wouldn't mind explaining further.

Do you tend to use the ambient mics and the front stereo mic(M/S, Blumlein) together in a mix, or is one usually chosen over the other to complete a picture? Does one usually take precedence over the other? I'm assume it depends on what the song calls for, but was curious what usually works best for you?
Lastly, do you ever delay the front stereo mic, or perhaps delay both setups? I guess I'm basically asking what your drum fader levels might sometimes end up looking like in a typical rock mix. Seems people are usually more drawn to learn about the gear, but I think the technique is just as important, if not more.

Just something I was curious about and wouldn't mind trying one day when I get a room thats worth capturing.


Thanks!

[steve]

The stereo images all overlap. I tend to use the M-S as part of the overall drum sound and use the distant ambient mics to control the perceived ambience or liveness of the kit. The ambient mics will sometimes ride up and down for emphasis, the other stereo stuff (overheads, M-S, close mics) not so much.

[Wlouch]

I would suggest always capturing some of the room, purely because subliminal amounts of that signal underneath the drumtracks will help glue the image together. Drums are ONE instrument not lots of multiple parts, to me the drumsound should include bleed, bleed can easily be translated to glue. Ambient mics is capturing that kit as ONE element and this certainly helps portray a realistic image and audio representation of a sonic event.

With ambient mics you are not necessarily attempting to get a room sound on a mix, varying levels are used for various reasons. Keeping the levels low of a poor room is better than just isolated dry close miking, imo.