Crime of the Century: Iraq

[Ty Webb]

New info on the Lancet study that began this thread:

I read that article yesterday. When asked how they could praise the methodology as close to best practice but deny the results, answers were predictably vague.

The only semi-credible criticism of the methodology was so-called "main street bias," that is that families polled lived on streets that were more likely to experience attacks, thus skewing the figures. But I find it hard to believe it could skew the figures by many hundreds of thousands. You're still talking about roughly 2% of the country dead.

That would be the equivalent of 6 million dead here. It's overwhelming.

[clocker bob]

That would be the equivalent of 6 million dead here. It's overwhelming.

It's mind blowing. And then add in the injured today and the injured tomorrow from depleted uranium, even the unborn from the DU- another couple of million probably.

iraq: the hidden story on google video. Channel 4 documentary about the carnage of war, as it isn't shown on US televison. It's a couple years old at this point, but it's not like anything has changed in those two years.

[lemur68]

That would be the equivalent of 6 million dead here. It's overwhelming.

And we all know who killed 6 million people.

[clocker bob]

Scottish Guardsman is speaking out on what he saw in Iraq and Afghanistan:

Ex-army officer: troops are dying in Iraq for a 'doomed project'

A former captain in the Scots Guards who has served in Afghanistan and Iraq describes both operations as a political and military shambles in a book to be published next week.

Leo Docherty, 30, was formally reprimanded six months ago for breaking the Army's code of silence by criticising the top brass for a catalogue of failures in both countries. He left the Army disillusioned and under a cloud in September, but now risks further ire from his former masters by publishing an account of his time in Iraq and Afghanistan, called Desert of Death.

Mr Docherty, who speaks five languages, including Arabic and Pashto, became a captain in 2001 and was deployed to Basra in Iraq in November 2004. "None of us in the officers' mess believed in the weapons of mass destruction nonsense - we all saw that as a kind of pretext," he said.

full article

[Andrew L.]

No shit.

[cocksure]

Uhm, guys... like, are you sure.

The US military has embarked on a new and risky strategy in Iraq by arming Sunni insurgents in the hope that they will tackle al-Qaida operatives in Iraq.

The US high command this month gave permission to its officers on the ground to negotiate arms deals with tribal elders and other local leaders. Arms, ammunition, body armour and other equipment, as well as cash, pickup trucks and fuel, have already been handed over in return for promises to turn on al-Qaida and not attack US troops.

The US military in Baghdad is trying to portray the move as arming disenchanted Sunnis rising up in their neighbourhoods against their former allies, al-Qaida and its foreign fighters. But the reality on the ground is more complex, with little sign that the US will be able to control the weapons once they are handed over.

The danger in the US strategy is that the insurgents could eventually use these weapons against American troops or in the civil war against Shia Muslims. Similar efforts by the US in other wars have often backfired, the most spectacular being the arming of guerrillas against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2100597,00.html

Good to see they've at least got the liberal labor initiatives going simultaneously though. Open the Labor section of your local paper for further developments.

Oh wait...

[Colonel Panic]

Gen Bargewell found that the marines had not identified targets properly...

[larsro]

hola!

an open invitation for all bands / musicians / people interested in lending a hand, foot, short set, or organizing/wordspreading energy to pitch in to 5 MILLION PEACE MARCH 2007:

http://www.5millionpeacemarch.org
http://www.myspace.com/5millionpeacemarch.org

the main march & concert will be on Jerusalem, with parallel events (insh'Allah) in NYC, London, Kobenhavn, & Ottawa.

we have a foot in the door for at least 1 Jerusalem venue, but all the other cities' venues are lagging in getting back to us, so PLEASE let me know if you can swing any weight in one of those 4 cities (or host a house show, why not?)!

as for the date, the grand finale shindigs will either be Sun., 15 July, or Sun., 22 July (hopefully to be finalized before the sun goes down).

CHEERS! GRACIAS IN ADVANCE!

[Rick Reuben]

New column in the Times of London, June 15. Title: "Why we must break with the American crazies". This War was designed to be an abortion, so it would be lengthy, deadly, and expensive. Now the same nutballs want to tell us that they can 'end the Iranian threat' using only air and sea power.

Compare the intelligence failures from which Mr Brown wants to draw his lessons with the facts – confirmed in numerous published memoirs – about this war’s irresponsible and incompetent conduct that are now common knowledge in America.For instance, General Anthony Zinni, the chief of US central command, war-gamed Iraq for more than a year before the invasion and every scenario he devised ended in a disaster, requiring many hundreds of thousands of US troops to bring it under control and remain in occupation for many years. Yet none of these scenarios was even considered by President Bush when he made the decision to invade.

Vice-President Cheney viewed the Iraq as a perfect opportunity to prove the “Rumsfeld doctrine” of low-manpower, shock-and-awe aerial warfare, without any need for the US to win allies or for the military to engage in “state-building” tasks.

There is now strong evidence that President Bush didn’t even know the difference between Shia and Sunni Muslims when he decided to attack Iraq – and that dissenting opinions were simply blocked by Mr Cheney before they could reach the President’s desk.

The State Department had prepared to send hundreds of diplomats and private sector construction experts with Arab-language skills and Middle East experience to help to rebuild Iraq. But less than a month before the war started, all these people were “stood down” on orders from Mr Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, as their Middle East experience would bias them towards an “Islamist” and defeatist worldview.

A conversation from November, 2006:

we aren't the least bit happy to hear that over 600,000 people in Iraq are dead .

Well here is some good news then. That statistic is almost certainly bogus.

Ok, so let's go with this:

"General George Casey, the U.S. commander in Iraq, says that the highest figure he has seen of civilian deaths is 50,000"

That's "cool" then? "Only" 50,000? We should be happy that our government has killed 50,000 humans under false pretenses? Saddam was gonna kill them all anyway, right?

You blow my mind all the time.

The vast majority of deaths in Iraq at this time are Iraqis killing other Iraqis.

Beginning after the occupation.

The US does not condone or encourage this.

They don't?? They are allowed to say they don't encourage it because they refused to accept predictions of it?

We are certainly not killing all of those people directly.

Indirectly?

You may want to claim that the US is indirectly responsible, but it is not at all clear that the alternative, leaving Saddam in power, would have resulted in fewer deaths.

It's not? History doesn't suggest that the occupation unleashed the violence?

Nor is it likely that a sudden US pullout would result in fewer deaths.

Why should an invasion lover like you have his opinion accepted here?

[larsro]

hola!

i hereby repeat my open invitation for all bands / musicians / people interested in lending a hand, foot, short set, or organizing/wordspreading energy to pitch in to 5 MILLION PEACE MARCH 2007, 13-15 July:

http://www.5millionpeacemarch.org
http://www.myspace.com/5millionpeacemarch.org

the main march & concert will be on Jerusalem, with parallel events in NYC, London, Kobenhavn, & hopefully Ottawa, though no confirmation on that front yet...

the Jerusalem venue question is still a bit shady but SOMETHING will pan out (and me having just arrived in Palestina will definitely help). the London show is at The Slaughtered Lamb, and i'm waiting for confirmation from Vox Pop in Brooklyn that we can have the NYC show there. MC Lars just signed on, and i think he has quite a draw, so maybe we can even twist a bigger venue's arm to let us have it there albeit the short notice (other tentative acts are 1001 Ways (CH), Liz MADDEN (IRE), Cypher:Dissident (Ithaca), David MARTINEZ (TX), & A Willpowa Experience (NYC)). it looks like the Kobenhavn show will be a daytime, outdoors affair chez FredsVagt Christiansborg in front of the Danish Parliament.

if any of you are interested in helping me concretize the NYC show, or land an Ottawa show, get in touch!

as for the date, the grand finale shindigs will generally be Sun., 15 July, although last i heard from Alexander at Vox Pop he was suggesting Fri. 13 July.

CHEERS! GRACIAS IN ADVANCE!

[Cranius]

Saw this harsh/curious condemnation from the ex-commander of coalition forces in Iraq today:

"There is no question that America is living a nightmare with no end in sight"...

....A former US military chief in Iraq has condemned the current strategy in the conflict, which he warned was "a nightmare with no end in sight".

Retired Lt Gen Ricardo Sanchez also labelled US political leaders as "incompetent" and "corrupted".

He said they would have faced courts martial for dereliction of duty had they been in the military.

A former US military chief in Iraq has condemned the current strategy in the conflict, which he warned was "a nightmare with no end in sight".

In what context was Sanchez speaking?

[emmanuelle cunt]

Uhm, guys... like, are you sure.

The US military has embarked on a new and risky strategy in Iraq by arming Sunni insurgents in the hope that they will tackle al-Qaida operatives in Iraq.

The US high command this month gave permission to its officers on the ground to negotiate arms deals with tribal elders and other local leaders. Arms, ammunition, body armour and other equipment, as well as cash, pickup trucks and fuel, have already been handed over in return for promises to turn on al-Qaida and not attack US troops.

The US military in Baghdad is trying to portray the move as arming disenchanted Sunnis rising up in their neighbourhoods against their former allies, al-Qaida and its foreign fighters. But the reality on the ground is more complex, with little sign that the US will be able to control the weapons once they are handed over.

The danger in the US strategy is that the insurgents could eventually use these weapons against American troops or in the civil war against Shia Muslims. Similar efforts by the US in other wars have often backfired, the most spectacular being the arming of guerrillas against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2100597,00.html

Good to see they've at least got the liberal labor initiatives going simultaneously though. Open the Labor section of your local paper for further developments.

Oh wait...

This is exactly what they have done in Afghanistan in the 80's. The fact that USA are not only considering but going for this tactic again speak volumes on how bad (read: totally fucked) the situation must be.


And too bad Heavy Metal Bagdhdad is not online anymore.

[sparky]

More trouble, saved for decades to come.

There are now an estimated four million Iraqis who have been forced to flee their homes, and the numbers continue to rise, according to the UN refugee agency.

Neighbouring Jordan and Syria, which have borne the brunt of the problem after receiving some two million refugees over the past few years, have now restricted access because they can no longer cope with the influx.

Four million people forced to leave their homes and lives is one of those statistics that shame my imagination. Four million is out of an estimated population of 26.8m, which gives 15%.

Shit.

Ghaith Abdul Ahad, an Iraqi journalist, says the areas where displaced Iraqis live have become fertile recruiting-grounds for militants.

"The insurgents in west Baghdad tell me that the hardest fighters are the Sunnis who have been kicked out of their homes by the Shia," Mr Abdul Ahad told the BBC.

There is a real fear that the temporary ramshackle refugee camps that today dot the Iraqi landscape are festering wounds that may take years to heal.

More ominously, they are a breeding ground for violence as well as social and political turmoil.

Outside Iraq, the long-term effect of the exodus is difficult to foresee.

Some analysts have drawn comparisons with the plight of the Palestinians, who were forced to flee after the creation of the state of Israel in 1948.

And if that analogy is anything to go by, then the Iraqi refugee crisis could become a destabilising factor for the entire region for years to come.

No one can predict the exact impact on the precarious demographic balance in neighbouring Syria and Jordan, which have received the highest numbers of Iraqi refugees.

There's enough hatred there to fuel generations of conflict. I'm called back to the title of this thread: in fifty years time, people will be rightly wondering why none of the truly responsible were tried for crimes against humanity.

I don't like that phrase, "crimes against humanity", it usually seems trite and meaningless to me. However, considering their sloppy but determined it troweling of violence over this huge range of people, well, humanity seems to have been properly assaulted.

Looking back over the previous posts, I know why Bolton so vociferously repeats that the war was a success. He realises that were he to admit its wrongness and the mindbogglingly callous recklessness of him and his, he should surely be locked away for the rest of his life.

[Gramsci]

Obviously the best option here to arm both sides of the civil war in Iraq with nuclear weapons. Evidently that will create the balance need to prevent further conflict.

[Dudley]

Obviously the best option here to arm both sides of the civil war in Iraq with nuclear weapons. Evidently that will create the balance need to prevent further conflict.

This is ace. And even if it doesn't work and they use them, it'll just be "Iraqis killing Iraqis", therefore demonstrably "not our fault". Not at all. So we win either way.

THinking ahead (always important!), and this might be gilding the lily a bit, but we could then get Halliburton et al to build an only-slightly-radioactive refugee camp on the smouldering remains, accept back a few of those who've fled, and we'lll look like Jesus incarnate - shit, a Nobel peace prize might even be in the offing.

[Gramsci]

Obviously the best option here to arm both sides of the civil war in Iraq with nuclear weapons. Evidently that will create the balance need to prevent further conflict.

This is ace. And even if it doesn't work and they use them, it'll just be "Iraqis killing Iraqis", therefore demonstrably "not our fault". Not at all. So we win either way.

THinking ahead (always important!), and this might be gilding the lily a bit, but we could then get Halliburton et al to build an only-slightly-radioactive refugee camp on the smouldering remains, accept back a few of those who've fled, and we'lll look like Jesus incarnate - shit, a Nobel peace prize might even be in the offing.

As much as I appreciate the kind words of support, I couldn't possibly take the credit for this idea, it was one of our fellow posters.

By the way, anyone that can use the expression "gilding the lily" gets my instant respect.

Salute!

[LutherBlissett]

I know why Bolton so vociferously repeats that the war was a success. He realises that were he to admit its wrongness and the mindbogglingly callous recklessness of him and his, he should surely be locked away for the rest of his life.

Classic Avi Lewis interview with Bolton. Imagine if more interviewers were real, committed journalists: there would be no more interviews, only reporting.

[sparky]

Classic Avi Lewis interview with Bolton.

Wtf? I've somehow missed that evil bit of legislation. I am not a little embarrassed. Here's a little Al Jazeera article that I've just read on the Iraq Oil Law. So predictable and yet still so shocking in its obscenity.

Witty little Pilger excerpt - thanks.

[Johnny C]

Lewis would be a much more effective journalist if his questions weren't loaded and leading. His film The Take was a lot better than most of his interviews because he largely shut up.

[LutherBlissett]

Lewis would be a much more effective journalist if his questions weren't loaded and leading.

With Bolton? Lewis would have simply been courting Bolton's spin, giving it another platform, in that case. When you have 5 minutes with Bolton on national television, you take the offensive. Without getting personal, Lewis calmly but not disinterestedly punctured Bolton's spin, and he was able to do this because he was prepared to do it.

If you're a journalist, and you are confronting a preeminent figure among the perpetrators of the "crime of the century," regarding an act of colonial expropriation, you'd do just as well to bracket your entire brain as your "agenda." If you don't bring (and enact) an alternate agenda, you will be subject to his.