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new turntable for me, please.

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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby Gantry on Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:30 pm

IMO they are doing a very limited run of this new 1200 to test the market, I have a feeling when they see the overwhelming support for it they'll release a mainstream version at a much lower price.

Then again I'm cruising along happily on my $100 AT-LP60. I couldn't buy a turntable again without auto start and stop. I'm an incredibly lazy individual...
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby motorbike guy on Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:47 pm

El Protoolio wrote:1200s are good tables but not thousands of dollars good.

If I could only upgrade the turntable first and use it with my found 90s pro logic capable receiver for months or a year would I be making a mistake? Is it still worth doing in stages? Or are some of you of the opinion that it's best to get it all at once? Or would you start with something else like receiver or speakers?


the source is the most important. and it is fine to do it in steps. you will be able to afford better stuff if you go slowly.

Will a good turntable going into a crummy amp sound good? It will sound better than a crappy turntable into that same amp, for sure. Then, in a year or whenever you upgrade the electronics, you will notice another huge improvement.

Go for it.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby eliya on Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:10 pm

What's the consensus on belt-drive vs. direct-drive?

It seems to me that quartz-locked direct drive motor will keep speed better than a belt.

Also, SL1200 are heavy and have some isolation pads at their feet. Wouldn't all that make them less susceptible to vibrations from outside the system?
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby motorbike guy on Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:47 pm

eliya wrote:What's the consensus on belt-drive vs. direct-drive?

It seems to me that quartz-locked direct drive motor will keep speed better than a belt.

Also, SL1200 are heavy and have some isolation pads at their feet. Wouldn't all that make them less susceptible to vibrations from outside the system?


I have always been of the opinion that a belt drive turntable is better for two reasons.

1 - the motor is not coupled to the platter, so any mechanical noise inherint in the motor does not get transmitted to the record.

2- since the motor is not directly underneath the platter (or at least on most belt drive units it is not directly underneath where the cartridge will track across the record) any electrical emissions such as RFI and magnetic fields are less likely to influence the cartridge.

I have not verified these opinions with extensive testing. I do know that, back in the 80s my store sold Dual belt drive turntables to those folks who could not afford Rega P-1s, P-2s, P-3s and/or Linn LP-12s or the other cheaper Linn turntable which I can't recall the name. We would often demo these Dual tables against whatever the customer had or was considering, which was any number of low priced pioneer, sony, technics direct drive turntables. The Duals always sounded much better.

I have not heard a real good comparison between a high end direct drive table with a proper tonearm against similarly priced belt drive things. I have also not heard a comparison between good belt drive tables and the recently trendy big honking idler drive tables like the old lencos or garrards.

I also note that the vast majority of super high end turntables have always been belt driven. If you look at Stereophile's list of recommended components, most the tables are belt driven, save a VPI (for $30K) and something from a company called Brinkmann, which I am not familiar with.

My guess is that, beyond a certain point, with a properly designed system, the drive mechanism ceases to be the major cause of noise, and other things like the bearings, the isolation and the tonearm become more important.


To your last point, yes, the feet are there to prevent certain frequencies of vibration from making their way into the system to disturb the platter/record/stylus/cartridge/tonearm relationship. These isolation systems often work very well in a narrow range. If they are tuned to filter out frequencies that will excite the plinth to resonance, and the plinth itself (indeed the whole turntable) can resist vibrations of higher frequency, then the whole thing works. I was always taught to put a turntable on a small light and rigid shelf - one that would not resonate at low frequencies - and the frequencies that it would resonate at were within the range that the turntable and its suspension could handle. Thus the LP-12 likes to be on a Sound Organisation stand or shelf.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby eliya on Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:21 am

I meant to keep replying but forgot - this is very informative. Thank you!
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby Thanasis on Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:34 am

I just sold my Technics SL1210 Mk2 which had an Audio Technics AT440mla cartridge on it.
Really, really good combination. Very reliable, great sound. No complaints except that I wanted something even better. I went with the VPI Scout with the Classic platter, centre weight and ring.
I was looking at the Classic but it was rather large, more expensive and I liked the look of the Scout better. I'll let you know how it sounds once I get it.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby Redline on Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:11 am

It will sound....Awesome.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby motorbike guy on Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:33 pm

yah. if that doesn't sound amazingly better than what you had, it's broken.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby garthplinko on Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:22 am

So what do you guys listen for with new record players? like what should you be able to hear that makes a more expensive one "better?" I'm always super-suspicious about these things because of all the coconut-audio/hot stamper snake-oilers out there combined with the fact that it's exceedingly difficult to double-blind A/B test things things makes it even harder to know what's quantifiable and what's not.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby Evin Relocation on Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:53 pm

Anybody check out these U-Turn joints yet?

I can't stop looking at records; they just seem to be calling out to me!

Edit: http://uturnaudio.com/turntables/
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby motorbike guy on Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:00 pm

garthplinko wrote:So what do you guys listen for with new record players? like what should you be able to hear that makes a more expensive one "better?" I'm always super-suspicious about these things because of all the coconut-audio/hot stamper snake-oilers out there combined with the fact that it's exceedingly difficult to double-blind A/B test things things makes it even harder to know what's quantifiable and what's not.


its not hard to hear. You just have turn off your technical engineer brain and listen to the music from an intuitive emotional place. Of course I am a Linn devotee, so this is what I was taught.

You can't listen for "better bass response" or "better high end" or something. It is not something that is easily measurable. Although the noise floor should be noticeably lower.

The better turntable will separate the instruments better so you can follow each part better. It will sound more in tune. The timing of the musicians to each other becomes much more apparent. Pianos sound more like pianos, drums sound more like drums, singers sound more like themselves. Put simply, the better turntable sounds more like music. It's pretty clear once you figure it out. No need to A/B/Y it. Don't overthink it.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby eliya on Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:25 pm

This isn't about turntables, but this thread has been recently active, so I'll ask here.

The TL;DR version is that our speakers sit on a couple of light bookshelves and as a result the floor really shakes when playing music, which means the neighbors can hear it. We'd like to decouple the speakers from the floor to stop the vibrations, any ideas?

Longer version: We had our speakers on a big Ikea Expedit that is full of books and records. It's really heavy which is great because it helped decouple the bass from the floor, and the floor rarely vibrated when we played music. We care about the floor vibrating because we know the neighbors can hear it too when it vibrates. Now we moved the speakers to a couple of lighter shelves, and the floor shakes even when the volume is really low. The difference is quite astounding, really. So yeah, that's a no-go and we'd like to decouple the speakers from the floor.

My instinct is to add mass. I was thinking of stacking a few granite tiles under each speaker. Those tiles are heavy and rigid, but I don't know if it'll be enough mass. Maybe add some kind of thick rubber underneath them? Any other ideas?
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby El Protoolio on Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:09 pm

Turn down the bass on your receiver.


This reminds me, are there any good apps for iPhones that I could use to ring out my system? I have an SPL meter that is also a tone/noise generator on my iPhone and iPad and use them together and they have been useful but I'd like to fine tune it. Something that performs a spectral analysis would be great.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby eliya on Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:44 pm

El Protoolio wrote:Turn down the bass on your receiver.


EQ is flat. This is a matter of flimsy structures and flimsier bookshelves.

El Protoolio wrote:This reminds me, are there any good apps for iPhones that I could use to ring out my system? I have an SPL meter that is also a tone/noise generator on my iPhone and iPad and use them together and they have been useful but I'd like to fine tune it. Something that performs a spectral analysis would be great.


Can't you do this with an omni and your computer?
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby Major on Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:47 pm

^ Get some of those Auralex MoPads.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby tmidgett on Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:12 pm

Mass won't decouple them. It will dampen the vibration of the floor, though.

You need some layer of foam in there, like the Auralex stuff, if you really wanna decouple them when putting them right on the floor. Or sand, or something like that.

You have kind of a dual problem, where you have 'em on a thing that is wobbly, and it's also vibrating the floor.

I would get (and have gotten) speaker stands.

Floor stands work great. The vibration of the speaker dissipates between the speaker and the floor, and usually you put rubber or whatever between the speaker and the stand to help do the job.

IsoAcoustics makes excellent little stands for bookshelf speakers that go between the speaker and the shelf. I bought some (great) Dynaudio monitors that came with some of them--really really good. I would wager their other stands are also really good.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby eliya on Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:28 pm

Yeah I figured decoupling is probably the wrong word. I just want the floor to not vibrate.

The foam stuff always looks like bullshit to me, but maybe it's not? When I think about it, my intuition makes me think that because it's not dense and very super rigid, it does actually isolate the speaker from the surface it stands on. I really like those isolator stands you linked, though. I guess it's worth it to invest in them because if they do what they're supposed to do, I'll always have use for them.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby Major on Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:16 am

^ I didn't have the exact same issue as you, but similar. Bought a set of those MoPads and it made a pretty noticeable difference.
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby eliya on Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:07 pm

Another question I'll repurpose this thread for:

Wow and flutter - would that be a problem that would be present over a whole pressing or would it be isolated to one record out of a pressing? I bought a record (new), and the second side has some ridiculous wow. I'd like a replacement, but it won't be worth it if all the records in that batch are like that. (The problem isn't with my system and also not present on the first side.)
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Re: new turntable for me, please.

Postby Antero on Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:37 am

My girl killa got me a turntable for my birthday - it's an Audio-Technica LP120 - and this is the first time I've ever had a vinyl record player. Immediately blew a bunch of cash on records, go figure.

So... what do I need to know that I don't? Like, would it be worth replacing the cartridge to improve sound quality? Is there some obvious thing that I'm going to do that will destroy it because I'm an ignorant fuck?
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