ATP Nightmare before Christmas

[154]

Those bands would then become the broccoli of the musical meal, something forced on them that they're not expected to enjoy but rather suffer through.

I came *this close* to using the "eat your vegetables" metaphor as well. Damn.

[honeyisfunny]

People wouldn't be excited to have the opportunity to see 20% of bands they've never heard of, they would more than likely feel as though it was being forced on them. Those bands would then become the broccoli of the musical meal, something forced on them that they're not expected to enjoy but rather suffer through.

I think you're confusing people suggesting that bands-that-aren't-well-known play, with people suggesting bands-that-aren't-any-good-play. And in that is the root of this whole discussion. There's a cultural arrogance in suggesting that because you haven't heard it it simply cannot be any good and that sums up much of what's been talked about so far.

Here's Supersonic Festival: http://www.supersonicfestival.com/line-up/

I doubt many people will have heard of everything playing at the festival but that element of the unknown-but-trusted is a reason why this festival carries on year after year and why it's always really exciting to attend it and why people know they're just as likely to encounter something mindblowing in the acts they don't know as the acts they do. Again, that's not what ATP are trying to do but a lot of the audience base for it assume it is and judge everything else accordingly. But we've been through that chat.

[Auntie Ovipositor]

I hope it makes sense. If not, it's probably the second language and third world thing.

All I got out of what you wrote was a faint whiff of Krostule. Still, your English is better than my galeb.

[Note: I have now used both of the Croatian words I know, so any further conversing will have to take place in English or else be limited to pastries and seagulls. Thanks.]

Were you ever over here or just have some Cro heritage/family?

My parents hosted a foreign exchange student. Then (after I was out of the house) they moved to Bratislava for a year while my dad finished the field research for his PhD.

[ImDADA]

Cool list. Needs more Poino.

Poino would improve this festival line up.

[Bill Swansea]

People wouldn't be excited to have the opportunity to see 20% of bands they've never heard of, they would more than likely feel as though it was being forced on them. Those bands would then become the broccoli of the musical meal, something forced on them that they're not expected to enjoy but rather suffer through.

I think you're confusing people suggesting that bands-that-aren't-well-known play, with people suggesting bands-that-aren't-any-good-play. And in that is the root of this whole discussion. There's a cultural arrogance in suggesting that because you haven't heard it it simply cannot be any good and that sums up much of what's been talked about so far.

Here's Supersonic Festival: http://www.supersonicfestival.com/line-up/

I doubt many people will have heard of everything playing at the festival but that element of the unknown-but-trusted is a reason why this festival carries on year after year and why it's always really exciting to attend it and why people know they're just as likely to encounter something mindblowing in the acts they don't know as the acts they do. Again, that's not what ATP are trying to do but a lot of the audience base for it assume it is and judge everything else accordingly. But we've been through that chat.

I won't be going precisely because I know who Jarboe is.

(Actually I take that back, My Disco and The Bug?! Count me in.)

[Bill Swansea]

I'm certainly with honeyisfunny and co. on this one, but at the same time it's expecting too much of ATP to be able to focus on non-reformed British groups, particularly at this point. I would like to see more of a mix of bands from over here though, but if I complained about there being a lack of any I'd be a hypocrite because of how much of a school girl Beatles fan I turned into when I saw Tar play in Chicago.

I don't know. The UK scene seems pretty healthy to me from my young eyes. There's good bands, there's good opportunities for exposure and there seems to be places to play. Unless you want to play in Cardiff, in which case you're fucked.

Besides, in twenty years if ATP is still going they'll all be knocking on your doors.

[Auntie Ovipositor]

I think you're confusing people suggesting that bands-that-aren't-well-known play, with people suggesting bands-that-aren't-any-good-play. And in that is the root of this whole discussion. There's a cultural arrogance in suggesting that because you haven't heard it it simply cannot be any good and that sums up much of what's been talked about so far.

No, I'm not confusing the 2.

Noise Pop here in SF used to work very hard to but together bills with lesser-known acts and bigger bands, to give the younger bands a shot at that audience. So bands like Zmerzlina, Chantigs, and Alaska got put on bills with Spoon, Mission of Burma, etc. This theory didn't work out, which is why nobody knows about these bands.

Maybe it's different over there, but this strikes me as an ineffective way to expose people to new music - you can lead a horse to water, etc etc etc.

I obviously agree that it's arrogant to assume that if someone hasn't heard something it can't be any good, but there's a pretty big gap between that assuming that people want to hear something new versus something known. They're paying for a ticket, after all. And, if it really were an obligatory thing (ATP! NOW WITH 20% BRITISH BANDS!), it's going to end up being broccoli. And if I know the Brits, you all would be saying, "Oh, them. They only got to play this show because they're British."

Obviously a quota is way more draconian than anyone here has suggested (I think you all would be fine if one of the curators was hip to a few young British bands), but I don't know if there's a successful way to programatically address the problem.

[ImDADA]

I agree with Auntie and completely understand what Honey has said about the unintended effects the festival may have had a hand in but I don't agree with some of mattgringo's posts - what in your opinion are US equivilents to bands like Bilge Pump or Poino?

ATP was never about promoting specific bands was it? It's about a curator picking bands they like, forcing them to be charitable and pick UK bands would be horrible and have nothing to do with what ATP is - complaining about that is like complaining about a piece of rock not being a piece of wood.

[mattgringo]

I agree with Auntie and completely understand what Honey has said about the unintended effects the festival may have had a hand in but I don't agree with some of mattgringo's posts - what in your opinion are US equivilents to bands like Bilge Pump or Poino?

ATP was never about promoting specific bands was it? It's about a curator picking bands they like, forcing them to be charitable and pick UK bands would be horrible and have nothing to do with what ATP is - complaining about that is like complaining about a piece of rock not being a piece of wood.

I have never said curators should be forced to do anything, nor did I ever mention a quota. I don't understand why either of these things are being mentioned in connection with what I posted. You are disagreeing with something I never said!

[mattgringo]

ATP was never about promoting specific bands was it?

ATP have promoted the acts on their label time and again - which is absolutely fine because it is their festival!

[Luzwei]

I hope it makes sense. If not, it's probably the second language and third world thing.

All I got out of what you wrote was a faint whiff of Krostule. Still, your English is better than my galeb.

[Note: I have now used both of the Croatian words I know, so any further conversing will have to take place in English or else be limited to pastries and seagulls. Thanks.]

Were you ever over here or just have some Cro heritage/family?

My parents hosted a foreign exchange student. Then (after I was out of the house) they moved to Bratislava for a year while my dad finished the field research for his PhD.

I like House.

[Auntie Ovipositor]

I hope it makes sense. If not, it's probably the second language and third world thing.

All I got out of what you wrote was a faint whiff of Krostule. Still, your English is better than my galeb.

[Note: I have now used both of the Croatian words I know, so any further conversing will have to take place in English or else be limited to pastries and seagulls. Thanks.]

Were you ever over here or just have some Cro heritage/family?

My parents hosted a foreign exchange student. Then (after I was out of the house) they moved to Bratislava for a year while my dad finished the field research for his PhD.

I like House.

Now: how many American exchange students have you hosted? How many PhDs has your dad worked on in America? It's just not fair. We're proping you up and get no thanks for it.

And don't even get me started on how you're exploiting our TV shows for your wacky image messages.

[ImDADA]

I agree with Auntie and completely understand what Honey has said about the unintended effects the festival may have had a hand in but I don't agree with some of mattgringo's posts - what in your opinion are US equivilents to bands like Bilge Pump or Poino?

ATP was never about promoting specific bands was it? It's about a curator picking bands they like, forcing them to be charitable and pick UK bands would be horrible and have nothing to do with what ATP is - complaining about that is like complaining about a piece of rock not being a piece of wood.

I have never said curators should be forced to do anything, nor did I ever mention a quota. I don't understand why either of these things are being mentioned in connection with what I posted. You are disagreeing with something I never said!

No, without being specific on anything you've said, I'm just commenting on the general tone of your posts. I can empathise I just don't agree with some of it.

[ImDADA]

ATP was never about promoting specific bands was it?

ATP have promoted the acts on their label time and again - which is absolutely fine because it is their festival!

I'm talking about the concept behind the festival - when the staff at ATP have taken part in the curation obviously it's likely they'll end up choosing bands on their label to play sooner or later, presumably because they like those bands, hence them being on the label in the first place.

[Luzwei]

I hope it makes sense. If not, it's probably the second language and third world thing.

All I got out of what you wrote was a faint whiff of Krostule. Still, your English is better than my galeb.

[Note: I have now used both of the Croatian words I know, so any further conversing will have to take place in English or else be limited to pastries and seagulls. Thanks.]

Were you ever over here or just have some Cro heritage/family?

My parents hosted a foreign exchange student. Then (after I was out of the house) they moved to Bratislava for a year while my dad finished the field research for his PhD.

I like House.

Now: how many American exchange students have you hosted? How many PhDs has your dad worked on in America? It's just not fair. We're proping you up and get no thanks for it.

And don't even get me started on how you're exploiting our TV shows for your wacky image messages.

I would have to answer to the first two questions with a resounding NO! My dad was a laborer all his life I guess. Oh and our schools are for free, true story.

And without all of those TV shows, where would I draw my jokes from.

[cneutron]

60 days of tour overseas capped off with PLAYING ATP would be pretty sweet.

FYP

UK, you want this... you know you do.
9 months afterwards the entire area will be birthing babies that look like Trophy Wives.

Steve, Bob, Todd...
do the right thing.

[hip priest]

This old thread made me chuckle when I stumbled across it earlier looking for something else. Read from third post down...

[elclamp]

Re: daniel robert chapman

This old thread made me chuckle when I stumbled across it earlier looking for something else. Read from third post down...

Good find - that is very funny. Six years ago; same thread. The last post on that page is particularly funny - Band Olympics.


Re: mattgringo

The festival market in the UK has reached saturation point. The sheer number of festivals (big and boutique, free and charging) and the length of the festival season has left many of them on a precipice. If you couple the awful weather we have had together with poor planning (Bloc!) and a recession, then I think you will see a very large number go under and not reappear next year. ATP are clearly having to make changes to survive and they have abandoned the May festival (for now), which I think is partly due to the competition at that time of year.

Hi Matt. Yes, I agree - maybe I overstated the room for manouevre [sp?]. But I think there is more room at ATP's end of the market. There's not a lot of overlap with Supersonic, Supernormal, End of the Road, Indietracks - and I guess these are the closest large events to ATP's.

Incidentally, a lot of British bands are playing Supersonic and Supernormal, many of them already mentioned on this list. And several of them mentioned in the 2006 version of it!, too ... So, ATP's particular cache aside, its not such a gloomy picture. [Unless you are in a band with me].

[cjh]

An 'investigation' into ATP by The Stool Pigeon, a relatively fair and frank dissection of the operation's finances in recent years.

[Dudley]

An 'investigation' into ATP by The Stool Pigeon, a relatively fair and frank dissection of the operation's finances in recent years.

Yeah, it doesn't really reveal or clarify anything. ATP do their best but struggle, cancelling festivals leaves people out of pocket and pisses them off... I'm still not clear if the rising level of debt is because they are deeper and deeper in the shit but try to keep going, or just a natural thing as they try and do bigger things. I don't know enough about running a company at that level or with their specific revenue structure to see how they're doing.

Is the stuff with the ticketing agencies standard? Rig hire?