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The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.)

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The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.)

Postby LBx on Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:34 am

"Meet the New Boss, Worse than the old boss"

Slides 1-25 and etc...

Read it twice.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby projectMalamute on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:16 am

I read about half of it, and that was plenty.

It's all bullshit because it starts with a faulty premise: that making money by selling recordings is some sort of inalienable right.

If you want to make money playing music now you need to go out there and play shows. Just like musicians did for the previous several centuries. You know, get up and go to work every day. Just like everybody else.

If you want to sit home and collect royalties indefinitely for a few weeks work you did several years ago, tough shit. I don't get checks every month for all those houses I framed back in the 90's.

If you want anyone, anywhere in the world to be able to hear your band, at absolutely zero cost to you, that is now an option. If you want to take your ball and go home that is also an option. It's really that simple.
Last edited by projectMalamute on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby 154 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:43 am

Not quite through it yet, but so far it is exactly what you'd expect from a 90s one hit wonder. I can see why he's upset, but you and I wouldn't be living on label advances, receiving royalty checks, having decent recording budgets, etc. in a non-digital world. Sure, you and I are paying 15% to Bandcamp (slightly moot point as the novelty of purchasing stuff on BC seems to have worn off) and generating a little bit of traffic to Facebook and YouTube, but in the past we would have been giving money to Maxell and USPS... and playing for about 1/10th of the audience. The label % vs. internet % thing (he suggests that even with a 12% label royalty, you still get a higher % through 'socialist' advance practices) doesn't take into account the legal process and fees of getting out of a contract or the label owning your master tapes. My friends had Atlantic sit on their record for 2 years and then drop them, only so they could silkscreen cd-rs in their backyard and put out 500 copies themselves. I wonder why they broke up later that year..

Interesting reading, but mostly... no.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby placeholder on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:53 am

Same old entitled whining with a different guy spouting it.

projectMalamute wrote:I read about half of it, and that was plenty.

It's all bullshit because it starts with a faulty premise: that making money by selling recordings is some sort of inalienable right.

If you want to make money playing music now you need to go out there and play shows. Just like musicians did for the previous several centuries. You know, get up and go to work every day. Just like everybody else.

If you want to sit home and collect royalties indefinitely for a few weeks work you did several years ago, tough shit. I don't get checks every month for all those houses I framed back in the 90's.

If you want anyone, anywhere in the world to be able to hear your band, at absolutely zero cost to you, that is now an option. If you want to take your ball and go home that is also an option. It's really that simple.


Ding!

Make music for its own sake and work a day job for money. You'll come out ahead.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby DrAwkward on Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:58 am

projectMalamute wrote:If you want anyone, anywhere in the world to be able to hear your band, at absolutely zero cost to you, that is now an option.


I essentially agree with you but have to nitpick this point. *Zero* cost? No.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby projectMalamute on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:03 am

DrAwkward wrote:
projectMalamute wrote:If you want anyone, anywhere in the world to be able to hear your band, at absolutely zero cost to you, that is now an option.


I essentially agree with you but have to nitpick this point. *Zero* cost? No.


Distribution is now available for free. Bandcamp, Soundcloud, a billion other services like that.

Actually having a band still involves some expenses, sure.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby 154 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:13 am

projectMalamute wrote:
DrAwkward wrote:
projectMalamute wrote:If you want anyone, anywhere in the world to be able to hear your band, at absolutely zero cost to you, that is now an option.


I essentially agree with you but have to nitpick this point. *Zero* cost? No.


Distribution is now available for free. Bandcamp, Soundcloud, a billion other services like that.


If the article did make an ok point, it's that web services really aren't free; they generate revenue through traffic and aren't obligated to re-invest some of that $ into artists.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby righthanded on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:21 am

projectMalamute wrote:I read about half of it, and that was plenty.

yes, we all enjoy your well informed ideas on something that has nothing to do with the article.
placeholder wrote:Make music for its own sake and work a day job for money.

okay, except that wasn't what the article was about.
154 wrote:If the article did make an ok point, it's that web services really aren't free; they generate revenue through traffic and aren't obligated to re-invest some of that $ into artists.

don't you mean that one-hit losers from 20 years ago should shut up and get a job? Save the hippie shit for woodstock, gramps.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby projectMalamute on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:27 am

154 wrote:
projectMalamute wrote:
DrAwkward wrote:
projectMalamute wrote:If you want anyone, anywhere in the world to be able to hear your band, at absolutely zero cost to you, that is now an option.


I essentially agree with you but have to nitpick this point. *Zero* cost? No.


Distribution is now available for free. Bandcamp, Soundcloud, a billion other services like that.


If the article did make an ok point, it's that web services really aren't free; they generate revenue through traffic and aren't obligated to re-invest some of that $ into artists.


I can put something on Soundcloud for free and someone who wants to listen to it can listen to it for free. That's good enough for me.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby 154 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:31 am

To be fair, the last part of the article is basically "old man yelling at cloud" about the tech industry.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby 154 on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:34 am

projectMalamute wrote:
154 wrote:
projectMalamute wrote:
DrAwkward wrote:
projectMalamute wrote:If you want anyone, anywhere in the world to be able to hear your band, at absolutely zero cost to you, that is now an option.


I essentially agree with you but have to nitpick this point. *Zero* cost? No.


Distribution is now available for free. Bandcamp, Soundcloud, a billion other services like that.


If the article did make an ok point, it's that web services really aren't free; they generate revenue through traffic and aren't obligated to re-invest some of that $ into artists.


I can put something on Soundcloud for free and someone who wants to listen to it can listen to it for free. That's good enough for me.


If I'm pulling people into YT or FB and they're getting bombarded with ads that they got paid for and not me, I care a little. Sure, I'm not gonna fight for the penny percentages, but it's still worth thinking about. Maybe we should all get off our asses (or actually, sit comfortably in a chair) and start making our own web pages again.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby DrAwkward on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:35 am

projectMalamute wrote:Distribution is now available for free. Bandcamp, Soundcloud, a billion other services like that.

Actually having a band still involves some expenses, sure.


Yes. I mean, something like $300 of my own money went into recording our Bandcamp-only EP. In this economy. Better than it was, but for some of us it's still a lot.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby numberthirty on Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:52 am

Not only is the New Boss worse than the Old Boss. The New Boss creeps me out.


Then don't go to work.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby enframed on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:03 am

LBx wrote:Read it twice.


Jesus. You, sir, are a masochist of the highest order.

I'm not in a band so I could be talking out of my ass, but at least it's as a fan of music who talks out of his ass.

That was a long-winded way to say "My data is right. Their data is wrong. Anecdotes are meaningless." And then he procedes to use some anecdotes to argue his side.

He basically lost me at this part:

"Because more bands are touring, staying on the road longer and playing for fewer people. Surely you all can see Malthusian trajectory?"

Well, there are more bands. A lot more bands. A fuck ton more bands. And if there aren't more actual bands, there is definitely more information about the bands. As a result there's a lot more shit to sift through. Our resources, as fans, are spread far more thin now than they were when even Cracker was "popular," let alone when CVB was around.

With a few exceptions just about every new band I hear about is from their being mentioned on this forum. This one single forum is all I participate in music-wise, and I even feel overwhelmed sometimes by how much new music is talked about here.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Pure L on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:20 am

I'm with all of the previous posts but there were a few new things in this article worth thinking about.

The bit when the author google searches to download an mp3 and is then shown ads based on that search was interesting. I hadn't ever really considered that but it's definitely a new wrinkle in all of this.

Since someone is making money on that search (by showing ads) they're essentially using someone else's content (the band's song) to make money that they (the site owners) keep.

The stuff about the DMCA takedown requests is also pretty shady.

I'm the first one to see that this article does its fair share of 'cloud yelling' but to skip those 2 points only solidifies the fact that the easier big social-networking sites make it for you to give up your data, the quicker people will accept it and be "cool" with it.

Kinda sad really.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby LBx on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:48 am

enframed wrote:Jesus. You, sir, are a masochist of the highest order.

Whoa now... I was half asleep well after midnight the first time. Skimmed thru a second time this morning over coffee.


Even though the dollar bottom line is not the route reason for making and sharing ones art/music (just going to throw that assumption out there...) the distribution of said money is certainly seems out of whack. To me, this seems to be the bulk of his point. And that intellectual property is property, both of which I agree with as a fan, like enframed, not a working musician.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Eugenius on Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:53 am

My first reaction is that this guy needs some help with his Powerpoint presentation. Or maybe he just used the Angry Rant Template.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Auntie Ovipositor on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:35 pm

Pure L wrote:Since someone is making money on that search (by showing ads) they're essentially using someone else's content (the band's song) to make money that they (the site owners) keep.

Are they making money because someone made the content or because someone wants the content? There's a lot of content out there that nobody wants and is indexed anyway, and it's valueless. Seems to me you're emphasizing the wrong actor in that chain.

But whatever. The market for music has changed, and yet making music is rarely if ever a means of making a living. Point taken.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Dudley on Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:41 pm

He lost most of me after

I was like all of you. I believed in the promise of the Internet to liberate, empower and even enrich artists.


partly because

a) "I was like all of you" sends out massive warning sirens for me. Anyone speaking from a stage or a dais or soapbox or TV saying "I am like you" is bad enough, but "I was like you" is even more worrying - dude knows all about me, understands me, was me, even, but now something has changed him, and he's come here to tell me what it is. Worst of all is "I was like all of you" - dude knows exactly what all of us are like, but has had some road-to-Damascus revolation that makes him different etc etc etc

and

b) I don't believe everyone thought the internet somehow "promised" to liberate, empower and enrich them. I think most people thought "here's a thing, bet it will be like all those other things. If it catches on, it'll be because it's useful or fun, but given our society, it'll probably pretty much just make the rich richer and the powerful will use it to stay powerful." Actually, most people probably thought "woah! Quim pics! For free!" but whatever, I don't buy his retelling of the arrival of the internet as some much-heralded torch of freedom

Mr Cracker has more straw-man arguments and stump cliches than most politicians.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby goosman on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:49 pm

Hmm...anyone know Mr. Lowrey's callsign? I like playing with PSK31 on 20M as well.
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