home studios equipment staff/friends booking/rates for sale forum contact

amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for free

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby steve on Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:58 pm

tania wrote:i am extremely uncomfortable with a lot of the opinions posted in this thread regarding amanda palmer's appearance.

I don't blame you. Whatever the rationale, men getting picky about what a woman looks like is never going to sit well in a discussion that strives for substance.

I just finished an email reply to a journalist about this thread. Heck, I'll just post it here. I guess I'm blowing his "scoop," but I find it hard to care.


On 9/14/2012 9:58 AM, Alex Denney wrote:
>
> Hello Steve,
>
> I’m web editor with The Stool Pigeon newspaper in the UK, wonder if you’d mind taking time out to answer a few questions regarding your latest blog post about Amanda Palmer?

To be complete I need to address several assumptions in your questions, so answering this email is going to take me a lot longer than it took you to write it, and will require some attention to read. Please pardon the unavoidable wordiness.

The forum I posted in is not a blog. It's a message board forum with an active international community numbering in the thousands. You can tell the difference because the forum I posted in is one of several, there are hundreds of active topics and each original post has a separate author. Calling the Electrical Audio Forums a blog is like calling Stool Pigeon your daily diary, and makes me instantly suspicious of your intent, research and reporting. If it was just a slip of the pen (or iPhone) then it suggests several other problems, but I wish you luck in that regard either way.
>
> Do you think websites running stories with headlines like “Steve Albini calls Amanda Palmer an idiot” are somehow unfair when you have, in fact, taken to your blog to call Amanda Palmer an idiot?

It should be apparent that my complaint is with this style of reporting-free copy/paste "journalism," not any perceived unfairness. It is exceptionally lazy, whether it involves me or anybody else, and it feeds the gossip-and-fluff-content bonfire that is burning the entire framework of public discourse.

Since you appear to think the point of my first post on the topic was to call Amanda Palmer an idiot, I'll break it down for you like a lesson.

In the first paragraph I made a parallel between several different forms of audience participation in a band's business, some of which have been used by Amanda Palmer and others, one of which was a reference to the Gathering of the Juggalos. In the first sentence I said I have no problem with any of them, meaning that there is nothing inherently ugly about any of them, and they are all of a type. I then explained why I don't do any of them myself or with regard to my band. I don't because I value self-sufficiency and its implied efficiency and economy very highly. This personality trait has enabled my bands to turn a profit on literally every tour we've ever undertaken, from the first road trip to Minneapolis in 1982 to the tour of Australia we'll be starting a couple of weeks from now. It has also kept my business afloat while most other studios are failing, despite the relatively low rates we charge. It's a sound and productive way to see the world, it has served me well and I don't apologize for it. It's also not unique to me. There is a whole culture of people who do things independently and efficiently, and it isn't an accident that they have been at the vanguard of culture for decades.

I then said that admitting that one can't fathom how to make things pay for themselves, when so many other people seem to do it, is a tacit admission of ineptness, for which I used the poorly-considered word "idiot." I implied that Amanda Palmer was an idiot by describing this idiot behavior which the reader would then ascribe to Ms Palmer, making the inference that she is an idiot. It was rude and poorly served my argument, but then again I was speaking informally to a familiar audience of peers on the forum, not the world at large. When it became obvious other people would be reading it I felt compelled to clarify my thinking. In the future, if you or another member of the press is concerned with whether or not I think someone is an idiot you can call and ask. The phone number is on the same page where you would look to sift messages for gossip.
>
> If you know everyone’s going to repost the story, why do it in the first place?

I make up to a dozen posts a day on the EA forums, and I don't presume that they will be "reported" in the "press." It's only happened a couple of times and it has caught me off guard. I noticed very little coverage on the post I wrote regarding the use of a Urei 1178 peak limiter on the overhead mics of a drum kit for example, though that post was probably more significant to its audience than this sort of micro-celebrity troll bait. My natural expectation is that there are more important things to report than what happens on a goddamn recording studio message board.

So no, I don't know everyone's going to repost things until they do. Then sometimes it's a face-palm moment, sometimes not.
>
> Part of Amanda’s defence of her scheme seems to be that, simply, many fans would jump at the chance to play with their favourite musicians for no money — does this argument seem fair?

On the part of the fans, I totally understand and sympathize with this impulse. That's starkly different from a millionaire asking people to do things for free, under the guise that she is giving them something by indulging them. It's cheapness repainted as generosity and it's gross. Using people in this way, exploiting their good nature for one's own benefit, is a cancer that taints many enterprises and it always reflects poorly on the exploiter. It's one of the things I hated most about the old-school record business, the practice of fucking with people who loved music so much they would put up with endless greed and abuse just to be a part of it. A new music business paradigm, if it is worth anything, should strive to be free of exploitation and be honest about its motives.
>
> You take issue with Palmer paying people to take care of the Kickstarter fund as inefficient, does this not seem like a reasonable expense for such a large amount of money?

No it doesn't, and I said as much. Paying someone to spend your money for you is pretty ridiculous. That there is a lot of it is all the more reason to keep tabs on it yourself.
>
> What other aspects of Palmer’s scheme strike you as ‘absurdly inefficient’?

Given that the typical budget for albums I work on is less than $10,000, you can take your pick of line-items in her budget, divide by ten and still have an order of magnitude worth of waste from my perspective. I haven't looked at the breakdown since I first saw it so don't quote me on it (haha, "don't quote me," I just said something funny), but I recall that she skimmed a couple hundred grand off the top for her pleasure prior to beginning to make the record. That alone is enough to make the record of your dreams a couple times over and seems like a straight-up "fuck you" to everybody who pledged money to the project.

It's crazy that I have to explain to you how ridiculous it is to blow a million dollars. More than a million dollars. Just say it out loud and think about how much fucking money a million dollars is. That's several really nice houses with a Jaguar in each garage. A lifetime's wages. It's just an incredible sum, enough to make a hundred records. Palmer had more than that at her disposal and now claims not to have enough left to pay musicians. To pay them for gigs she is also being paid to play. This coming from someone who already had a successful career before she had her audience begin paying all her expenses in advance. A millionaire pleading poverty and asking for additional charity. It's fucking ridiculous and it mocks all the bands who genuinely need their audience to help them conduct their business.

So that's what I think. Nobody's an idiot, some ways of conducting business are just uglier and more exploitative than others.

-steve albini
steve albini
Electrical Audio
sa at electricalaudio dot com
Quicumque quattuor feles possidet insanus est.
User avatar
steve
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
 
Posts: 8680
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:25 pm
Location: chicago

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby MrMattDiehl on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:27 pm

Steve, while I think that some of the incendiary language you used was part of why this commentary went viral (not to mention the fact of one well-known person commenting in public on another well-known person with a rabid, professionally-cultivated Internet following), I think much of the reproduction of your commentary in this thread is because some/many people admired it, and thought Palmer was full of shit, and felt your reasoning made sense and needed to be heard. You have thought deeply about this stuff, and that is a large part of why it resonates, well beyond the controversial aspects. It's like with "The Problem With Music" - we're at a certain weird place/contraction in music culture, and I'm glad that some of the people who have spent a lifetime thinking about this shit are contributing to/helping shape the conversation. That to me is worth some of the superficial aspects of this kind of dissemination of information, which at this point appears to be a fact of life.
MrMattDiehl
red hodges
red hodges
 
Posts: 534
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:14 pm

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby J. Burns on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:38 pm

Image
Titus Andronibro wrote:"unless they change their infrastructure, they're not ready for a punk show."


POLICE TEETH.
SEMINARS.
User avatar
J. Burns
Master of Lit., Arts, & Architecture
Master of Lit., Arts, & Architecture
 
Posts: 3640
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:56 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby lemur68 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:44 pm

J. Burns wrote:Image


Posters On Steve Albini's Blog Making Fun Of Black People Now
big_dave wrote:This is just about finding a dorky selfie on his blogspot?

Jesus, this is the Space Ace by Don Bluth of internet intrigue.
User avatar
lemur68
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 17810
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:52 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby J. Burns on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:49 pm

lemur68 wrote:
J. Burns wrote:Image


Posters On Steve Albini's Blog Making Fun Of Black People Now


censoredalexdenney.blogspot.com
Titus Andronibro wrote:"unless they change their infrastructure, they're not ready for a punk show."


POLICE TEETH.
SEMINARS.
User avatar
J. Burns
Master of Lit., Arts, & Architecture
Master of Lit., Arts, & Architecture
 
Posts: 3640
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:56 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Bill Flaig on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:51 pm

Hey, there's at least one Spaniard in that gif.
RSMurphy wrote:I don't believe in God, but I do believe in gospel music.
User avatar
Bill Flaig
has seen it all
has seen it all
 
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:01 am
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby scott on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:53 pm

Steve, seriously, will you marry me? It's wordsmanship of that sort that just keeps me coming back to this blog for more. Where's the Like button? God I can't re-tweeter this shit fast enough.

By the way, HUGE mistake opening the door in there. I've got unlimited night and weekend minutes, buddy. Let's start with Lars. I'll call tomorrow and when they ask who's calling I'm just gonna say "It's me, The Press". People have a need to know these things. Or was the "ask Steve if xyz is an idiot" invitation specific to just this one doude?

Btw if anyone is keeping score, the correct thing you do with the $1.2m dollars is buy a $200k house, cash, set aside $100k in an escrow account to pay the property taxes for lotsa years so you can be an idiot and not have to think about it, and then invest $900k in a conservative way getting like 3% interest and use that $15,000 every year (whatever it is after capital gains tax) to record and release an album and/or play a tour where you maybe get lucky and make enough to live your life without a day job. At the very least you got a free house, don't even have to be smart enough to remember to pay the property taxes for a while, and get to release an album and/or go on a modest tour every year FOREVER, without being beholden to anyone for anything, and with a nearly $1m safety net sitting there for you.

That's the correct way, it's a fact that was verified by scientists.
May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather
first show - last show
User avatar
scott
Master of Cunnilingus
Master of Cunnilingus
 
Posts: 12101
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:35 pm
Location: 8d4+8

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby lemur68 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:53 pm

killyourself wrote:Hey, there's at least one Spaniard in that gif.


Fuckin' Spaniards crossing the border illegally and taking our jobs
big_dave wrote:This is just about finding a dorky selfie on his blogspot?

Jesus, this is the Space Ace by Don Bluth of internet intrigue.
User avatar
lemur68
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 17810
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:52 am
Location: Columbus, OH

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby treasuretech on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:58 pm

Steve, while I agree that cut-and-paste gossip journalism serves to lower the level of public discourse and renders hollow the whole notion of the journalist as investigator, is there some kind of distinction between a post on a forum and one in a blog? Any post on a forum was written with the intention of being published (albeit in a limited fashion), just as any blog post would be. Certainly, it may be assumed that posts on message boards constitute a response less considered than an actual blog post would.

Additionally, it is certainly granted that there is not assurance the forum post is actually the work of the person it purports to be. I'm sure nobody at EA would ever stoop so low as to hack your account.

Should journalists treat these posts as 'off-the-record' or 'off-the-cuff' remarks? There have been an increasing number of politicians for whom 'off-the-cuff' seems to be a defence for any poorly chosen verbiage, regardless of its forum of expression.

Are there some sources which, for a journalist, where the context is the overarching consideration in its worthiness in news. Twitter? Facebook? PRF?

Without getting into the whole Derridean deconstruction of the independence of language when severed from context, doesn't any language in any forum bear journalistic consideration (appropriately handled)?
If Neil Young were a horse, you'd shoot it.
User avatar
treasuretech
seminarian
seminarian
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:55 pm
Location: St Peters, NSW, Australia

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby J. Burns on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:01 am

scott wrote:By the way, HUGE mistake opening the door in there. I've got unlimited night and weekend minutes, buddy. Let's start with Lars. I'll call tomorrow and when they ask who's calling I'm just gonna say "It's me, The Press". People have a need to know these things. Or was the "ask Steve if xyz is an idiot" invitation specific to just this one doude?


Maybe There's enough budget for cheesy breads for this guy to screen the phones.

Oh, wait a minute. Goddammit.
Titus Andronibro wrote:"unless they change their infrastructure, they're not ready for a punk show."


POLICE TEETH.
SEMINARS.
User avatar
J. Burns
Master of Lit., Arts, & Architecture
Master of Lit., Arts, & Architecture
 
Posts: 3640
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:56 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby jimmy two hands on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:08 am

Thread still hasn't brought in more visitors than odd future.

I finally listened to her music. Not really for me. Kinda bland, so it makes sense that there are so many people willing to give her a bunch of cash. People like bland crap. That's why U2 remains popular, and that's why Hootie and the Blowfish got big. If they would only reunite, then racism would end again.

I don't care whether or not she gets nekkid as part of her act or what body hair she trims. The music is bland, with a made up aura of transgressiveness via the whole vaudeville/sideshow/burlesque shtick. It's like eating a lean pocket shaped like a penis. Seems shocking to most people, but it's still crappy microwaved pablum. If her fans are suckers enough to give her a shit-ton of money for an overpriced bowl of instant oatmeal with sequins and a peep show mixed in, she Barnumed them something good. It would be almost commendable if it weren't so obscene.
banjo.comics.pigfuck.stoner metal.rock operas.

Stickles wrote:It celebrates the genius of the Northern military strategy and I'm sure that in addition to that they were perfectly nice guys.
User avatar
jimmy two hands
World's Greatest Lover
World's Greatest Lover
 
Posts: 11703
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:20 pm
Location: Tastee Freez

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Waltz Mastering on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:13 am

Is it true that her husband Neil Gaiman is a multi millionaire?
I've read that he donates large sums of cash to the church of scientology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Gaiman
Waltz Mastering
cannon fodder
cannon fodder
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:21 am
Location: Third Stone From The Sun

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby scott on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:16 am

J. Burns wrote:
scott wrote:By the way, HUGE mistake opening the door in there. I've got unlimited night and weekend minutes, buddy. Let's start with Lars. I'll call tomorrow and when they ask who's calling I'm just gonna say "It's me, The Press". People have a need to know these things. Or was the "ask Steve if xyz is an idiot" invitation specific to just this one doude?


Maybe There's enough budget for cheesy breads for this guy to screen the phones.

Oh, wait a minute. Goddammit.



Oh wow, thanks for that. There are definitely some breaks in character but I can't decide which of these two is more awesome

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10718&p=127953#p127953

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12713&p=158969#p158969

Thanks for the memories!
May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather
first show - last show
User avatar
scott
Master of Cunnilingus
Master of Cunnilingus
 
Posts: 12101
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:35 pm
Location: 8d4+8

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Superking on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:50 am

amelia wrote:
waltermalling wrote:Again, not to be that guy and all but if anyone has any information on playing with her at the gig in Chicago, please let me know. Also, if anyone has a bass amp for rent or that I can use (preferably one that sounds good with horns/saxophones), please get back to me. Peace. Any fans of Foster the People on this forum?



My best friend's son is a fan and got me into them. They are tolerable acoustic, but I'll tolerate their recordings for the little man. I want to teach him to play Helena Beats next time I see him.


Jesus... Walter Malling and Amelia finally collide... I was going to create a post about, "Amelia, protect yourself", etc. But then it occurred to me that they are exactly the same kind of entity! I feel weird that it took me this long to figure it out about "Amelia".

Well played, assholes (whoever you are)!

Seriously...
Angus Jung wrote:Anyway, yeah, women, metal/heavy shit, 2012, everywhere.


The Hero of Love!
User avatar
Superking
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:10 am
Location: Chicago

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Superking on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:40 am

Meanwhile:

Park $1.2 million in a money market account making 1% APR. (By the way, nobody would encourage you to make this poor of an investment), Anyway, that generates $12,000 in one year.

For reference: if I were going to pay you $50,000 a year to be a fabulous, gothy artist, I could do that for 24 years / at $50,000 per year / assuming your initial $1,200,000 made absolutely no interest.

It's total horse-shit.

If you asked for $100k to make your record, and you got over 10x that, and you can't afford to pay one-off live musicians to take part in your cabaret thing... Well, shit...

Meanwhile, all of these numbers don't take in to account that you're married to a multi-millionaire. Let me guess: that doesn't matter! "We each have our own thing".... blah blah blah.

OK.

It's horrible, the whole thing...


Listen: perhaps the entire problem is one of budgeting.
Angus Jung wrote:Anyway, yeah, women, metal/heavy shit, 2012, everywhere.


The Hero of Love!
User avatar
Superking
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
Lode Star of the Twenty-First Century
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:10 am
Location: Chicago

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby scott on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:24 am

I would never have suggested buying a $200k house as the correct way to spend the money for a multi-millionaire. I was talking about for regular type folks. For a multi-millionaire the correct way to spend $1.2m is to buy as many hovercraft as that affords you and then have a demolition derby with them.

I suddenly find myself feeling that I'm contributing to some free buzz generating which was probably the whole point of this exercise. If the multi-millionaire thing is true, that begs the question of who may have dropped $1.15m to generate all this buzz in the first place. I feel dirty just thinking about it.

To quote an old one, "done here!"
May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather
first show - last show
User avatar
scott
Master of Cunnilingus
Master of Cunnilingus
 
Posts: 12101
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:35 pm
Location: 8d4+8

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Tommy Alpha on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:26 am

turnbullac wrote:When one gender (male) clearly dominates over another (female)
everything is always about gender

When one race (white) clearly dominates over another (all other races)
everything is always about race

When one sexuality (hetero) clearly dominates over another (everything else)
everything is always about sexuality

and on down the line. Fairness does not mean same as same is. What is good for the gander is not always what is good for the goose.

People are always going to come into this forum thinking that every poster is a pasty, slobbering basement dwelling creep. Doesn't take more than a few casual remarks to cement that in their minds.


Exactly. This is the base line of consideration for how to conduct oneself around others. So simple, the point doesn't need to be made. So important it needs to be made constantly.

Onwards...
User avatar
Tommy Alpha
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5002
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:08 am
Location: Alphaville

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Mason on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:31 am

treasuretech wrote:Without getting into the whole Derridean deconstruction of the independence of language when severed from context, doesn't any language in any forum bear journalistic consideration (appropriately handled)?


Right, because the questions "what are journalists doing here in the first place, and why would anyone ever expect that a post they made on the BBS attached to the website of an Illinois recording studio to end up on Pitchfork" don't answer themselves without the threat of bringing Derrida into it.
jurgis rudkus wrote:My life is easy, and my shit stays clean.

These Estates; Plywood
User avatar
Mason
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
 
Posts: 4056
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Tommy Alpha on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:40 am

Also, isn't the real news story the fact walter is back?
User avatar
Tommy Alpha
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5002
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:08 am
Location: Alphaville

Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Ernest on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:45 am

Tommy Alpha wrote:Also, isn't the real news story the fact walter is back?


While that's nice, I'm here for the sexism. Hairy men and their rote discourse.
Marsupialized wrote:A bus will crash and there'd be three people stepping over injured children to get out saying 'fuck them' it's just how it is with people.
User avatar
Ernest
Master of Cunnilingus
Master of Cunnilingus
 
Posts: 12598
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: Past where they paint the houses

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Google [Bot], Neuloveyou and 12 guests