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amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for free

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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby ERawk on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:38 am

Ptommydski wrote:
madmanmunt wrote:People doing cunty things can/should be called out on their cuntery, male or female.

Making comments about a vaudevillian's (your word) presentation of themselves, in their public works, is perfectly acceptable as far as I am concerned.

Quite, it's about personal perspective. Your comments are fair and I understand your stance within reason.

I used to use this defence a lot too and it served me well for years. The idea that if it's okay to call Billy Corgan names, we should be able to call Amanda Palmer names too. That's how equality works, no?

Not quite. The issue is that this is a male dominated environment whereby we dramatically outnumber women. The unnecessarily hostile language which sometimes gets directed at women can legitimately drive females away from threads, the forum, the community. Women who have brilliant insight and genuinely interesting perspectives, which we subsequently seldom or never get to hear. Sadly I know this from personal experience.

I liked using aggressive invective, "male gazing" and faux-misogyny for a long while because I assumed it was harmless and all in the spirit of fun. However, it took a few people to point out that if it's the prevalent attitude on a heavily male dominated forum, it can create an atmosphere which is uncomfortably close to real misogyny. Thus, I sort of had to do the internal mathematics regarding whether I liked calling women cunts or making comments about their appearance more than I liked female friends feeling comfortable here.

Each to their own though, obviously.


From my view here's the dope:

There's always going to be dumbass mysogynits on this fourm. I think a lot of vag badge's know this.

You can fight their mysogyny with some sanguine barbs, which is what I try to do when I have to to actually post on here (sporadically at best, mostly when drunk). Frankly, when it somes to the sexist shit, I don't mind getting to ice queen levels of zingery or even trolling you fucks. If any of you want to pin me down on this, I just know it when I see it. And fuck you too.

99%, nah, let's make that 100% of the time, when there's some bullshit about the look of a chick being discussed than her actual ability as a musician, there are times when the people on EA with penises desrve the most sub-zero sanguine responses from people with actual vages when they are being sexist shits. Raise the bar shitheads. Oh yeah, and no one cares about your "honest" responses about your objectivity of females.

You guys don't want to know some of the shit I want to post but think better of it after a night's sleep when on the subject of WYMYN...

...it has mainly to do with breast cancer, AIDS and the prospect of you mysogynists having actual daughters....
Last edited by ERawk on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Ernest on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:41 am

Haha. I really (really) don't mind nudity, and transgression of societal norms, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when it, or anything else, is accompanied by such bad business. 1.2 Million, and so much of it went to waste, and then she's all titties like the show masks how much of an opportunist she is, financially. The music is always secondary.

edit: Damn, three's company style misunderstanding. Back in the folder.
Last edited by Ernest on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Johnny C on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:46 am

i think she's just like hilariously clumsy with money now the more i find out
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Johnny C on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:46 am

she's spending a hundred thousand dollars on music videos
Last edited by Johnny C on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Johnny C on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:46 am

did you guys know she's spending $15 to make and ship CDs? like, $15 a pop? hahaha what the hell
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Ernest on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:48 am

I just want to know if she puts out on stage.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Johnny C on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:49 am

god damn it ernest i'm trying to make a point about how shitty amanda palmer is at money
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Johnny C on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:50 am

it also owns that people took what steve said on this forum and used it as news but i don't remember the last time i saw a john darnielle or final fantasy post over on ILX suddenly turning into a blog piece? but maybe that's because a lot of online music journos hang out over on ILX and it would be weird for them. ha ha man i wonder
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby givemenoughrope on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:11 am

How is it misogynistic to point out that this woman's music is just a soundtrack backdrop to her videos full of gratuitous bush shots and daily topless twitpics? It's embarrassing and I don't even have a vagina. I didn't call her a cunt but she sure is acting like something that resembles one in regards to this and whole Kickstarter bait and switch.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Antero on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:24 am

Shout out to ERawk.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby noise&light on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:28 am

I get that people don't like that she made a lot of money from her fans. It seems to me (I could be wrong) that the people who gave money had access to her budget breakdown list before they gave her the money. And they choose to give anyway.

I get that people have problems with her asking for people to join her onstage especially after making that large amount of money with kickstarter. Seems like a pretty uncool move on her part but I get that people want to be involved with the artists they like. It's fun.

I get that people have problems with the way that she uses her nudity although I have no idea how givemeenoughrope is getting the images that he says are appearing daily. Maybe you need to adjust your email filters there.

But I just don't get the viciousness. It seems really over the top. I mean, maybe people think they're being funny but it just reads as angry and bitter. Trust me, I want to laugh at your jokes. I would love it if more of you were funny. Maybe try harder? I really don't know.


[*] And I'm going to clarify in advance that not everybody is doing this. Previously in this thread it seems that if someone is critical of negativity that suddenly people have been popping up out of nowhere being indignant and taking things personally. I'm just talking about the unfunny people. That's probably not you, of course.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Ptommydski on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:28 am

Ernest wrote:Maybe it's Machiavellian, or just cynical of me, but people are eye candy, and I say that with full appreciation of patriarchy. This is a performer that essentially has no issue with parading full out, balls deep narcissistic "look at me" style, but we're going to derail threads to point out how wrong it is to treat it as such?

Man, identity politics are frustrating. Toss your tits out but don't look.

I gave this some real thought because I do understand the point you're making. If you remember, I rather infamously pioneered a music filter called The Google Image Search Game whereby I would literally judge a band on their appearance. If I put Amanda Palmer into GIS, I can already make a fairly informed decision that she's not going to be my thing. People challenge me on the veracity of this method all the time (rightfully, it's a glib habit of mine) but it works for me.

Ultimately I think the difference is that she's only actually behaving in the manner which offends you in the context of a performance. You can hear her music on her records or see her at shows but she's not going to actually come to your house and carry on in this manner. She does it in front of people who presumably go to see her on purpose, knowing she will play awful music, dress like a vaudevillian ghoul or maybe even wander out into the audience naked and have everybody scribble on her in sharpies.

I can't remember who it was, possibly Louis CK, who made the point about how he didn't understand why people had an issue with gay marriage when there's ample opportunity to not get gay married and it's really easy not to attend a gay marriage. He said something about how it's not like gay people are fucking in your kitchen while you're trying to eat breakfast. I'm paraphrasing but the crux was that it's really, really easy to avoid if you don't like it. That's how I feel about Amanda Palmer and her travelling circus - it's not personally my thing but other people seem to be having fun so have at it.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby givemenoughrope on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:49 am

noise&light wrote:I get that people have problems with the way that she uses her nudity although I have no idea how givemeenoughrope is getting the images that he says are appearing daily. Maybe you need to adjust your email filters there.

But I just don't get the viciousness. It seems really over the top. I mean, maybe people think they're being funny but it just reads as angry and bitter. Trust me, I want to laugh at your jokes. I would love it if more of you were funny. Maybe try harder?


Fair enough. I was actually trying to be funny at first but..gave up? I was actually more rubbed by the reaction. Whatever. I don't have any feelings towards this woman. There'll be plenty of that coming from her fanbase, which she just spit in the face of, I'm sure. (Meanwhile, how many other artist/opportunists take note of this as a scheme that will yield a huge payday, the new model, radiohead, etc.)

I'm not actually getting bombarded with these images, which someone else mentioned, but a quick google search...

And actually, at the end of the day, past the boob shots and crashing an Occupy demonstration to play ukelele, this person got the attention of loads of people who otherwise might never have heard of her. In her mind I'm sure that will translate into dollars. Maybe she'll make a film about Mohammad next.
Last edited by givemenoughrope on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby steve on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:00 am

Ptommydski wrote:it's not personally my thing but other people seem to be having fun so have at it.

This applies to basically everything on earth short of somebody setting fire to your house. No point in forming opinions on the way people do things, trying to figure out which ways are gross and stupid and which are honorable, no point in giving a shit about anything at all really.

Other than a house fire it's all pretty easy to ignore.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby mazacultura on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:08 am

noise&light wrote:I get that people have problems with the way that she uses her nudity although I have no idea how givemeenoughrope is getting the images that he says are appearing daily. Maybe you need to adjust your email filters there.


Not daily, as I recall. At least weekly. To follow up on my thought from earlier, her ability to make tits on Twitter a blase event was kind of transgressive its own way. It's like, "right, they're just boobs. It really isn't such a big deal. How about that."

Also, add me to the list of penis creatures[*] who notices the misogynistic undercurrent here and in the PRF on the whole.

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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Bernardo on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:08 am

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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Ptommydski on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:09 am

steve wrote:
Ptommydski wrote:it's not personally my thing but other people seem to be having fun so have at it.

This applies to basically everything on earth short of somebody setting fire to your house. No point in forming opinions on the way people do things, trying to figure out which ways are gross and stupid and which are honorable, no point in giving a shit about anything at all really.

Other than a house fire it's all pretty easy to ignore.

The point was made regarding her occasional nudity during performances and/or personal grooming habits etc. There's not really a sensible ethical objection to that, at least not here in 2012.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby Ernest on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:01 am

There is no ethical objection, at least from me, about her performances by themselves, but that coupled with her financial squandering (that's the nicest I can put it), her performance underlines how much of a spectacle the entire thing is, in the worst way possible. Her fame, or whatever you want to call it.

On the background of this sleaziest major label mindset where even an enormous sum is written off as the expense necessary to create art, her schtick comes off as the most decadent this side of the Kardashians. It's gross, and it's not because of her tits. It's more the irony coupled with this showmanship. I would say the same thing about men, but unfortunately, men doing this is actually far more commonplace given that men are typically the decadent pieces of shit by virtue of it being a man's game. It doesn't make her any less of target that she has her ovaries to push aside the criticism as simply sexist.

You can do a lot, for a lot of people with 1.2 million. What the hell?
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby treasuretech on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:14 am

Neil Gaiman's family are Scientologists. Neil maintains he is not a Scientologist and there has been some speculation that he is allowed 'special consideration' in light of who he is and who his family are. That's pretty damn rare.

Even if they are, as maintained, not members of the CoS, I'd be wondering whether they really are flat bust or whether a little of the old Scientological money-grubbery is, at least, influencing this. The mentality seems similar - just keep paying out the arse for your 'enlightenment', 'art', or whatever.
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Re: amanda "$1.2m" palmer wants you to play with her for fre

Postby numberthirty on Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:22 am

amelia wrote:
Ernest wrote:
Man, identity politics are frustrating. Toss your tits out but don't look.


Honestly, part of me is more insulted at her stage persona than her blatant use of free labor.


I KNEW I was right. See, your hostility is based on her being free with her body/nudity. I WIN!


(disclaimer: I'm totally joking with E)


While I'm not one of the women who post here, I think you need to take a look at what you're saying. You call a woman out on being topless. Think back to MK I Danzig. Those fools were topless quite often. Of all the shots I've seen people take at him/them, I can't ever recall someone mentioning anything like what you've said about Amanda Palmer. Same goes for grandad muscle Joe Perry running around with his shirt off.

I'm not going to give anyone shit about it. I just thought it was worth pointing out.
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