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Tell me about the post-racist New South again

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Re: Tell me about the post-racist New South again

Postby ldopa_chicago on Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:27 am

greg wrote:
ldopa_chicago wrote:Southern revisionism? You misunderstand. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not saying that slavery had nothing to do with the South's decision to succeed. I'm saying that it had little to nothing to do with the North's intentions with regard to the Civil War. My interest is in undermining the Northern sense of moral superiority, not in excusing the perpetuation of slavery or "southern revisionism".


The North's/Lincoln's stated objective was to keep the Union together, sure. Focusing on this irrelevant point isn't that useful since ultimately the reason the war happened is still clear.
It's weird how contemporaries debate what the underlining causes were, and second guess the intensions of that time. It's completely unambiguous to anyone in charge or talking about it during that era. If people in the rest of the country were totally cool with slavery, there wouldn't have been succession, or a war.

I don't think it's that simple. It never is. War is never about morality. It's almost always about power and/or economics.

The North was economically dependent on the South for raw fiber for textiles and agriculture. The South had limited manufacturing. Again, the vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and likely never would. That doesn't mean that they were not complicit or that they should be absolved of responsibility, but the rich land-owning slave-owning ruling class had by far the most to lose by abolition. Poor disenfranchised white Southerners acting against their own interests at the behest of a rich ruling class. Hmm, that sounds familiar. Sounds like every red state- highest per capita (and I believe gross) recipients of welfare and most likely to vote against it. They had nothing to gain by the perpetuation of slavery and yet they (apparently) fought and died for it.

By point is ultimately that by morally distancing ourselves from each other, we gain nothing. If there's a "good guy" and a "bad guy," people are less likely to examine their own situation or to come to grips with their own position in a racist society. I'm a white middle class man living in a once-Latino neighborhood that my parents (unwittingly or not) helped gentrify in an incredibly segregated city. It's not "my fault," no, but I sure as hell benefit from the organization of our society. This isn't a white guilt thing. I feel zero guilt about where I am, I just feel that everyone should have the opportunities that I have had and should be able to experience the freedom and comfort that I do. If I say, "Not my fault! I'm not the bad guy!" that may be largely true, but nothing changes.
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Re: Tell me about the post-racist New South again

Postby Ranxerox on Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:48 pm

While it is true that the North has a sordid history of segregation and racist nonsense, it is much more tempered by greater access and freedom for blacks than was found in the South. Race is in many ways about controlling relationships and the power that is derived from association. Isolate and exploit, especially the labor of people of color. The regime and legacies of oppressive controls over relationships, etc., is notably more complete and prevalent in the South.

The 'agitation' that the South felt at having the feds tell them how the bounds of their labor arrangements were to be drawn is a central root connecting that legacy of 'states rights' and anti-federal power into the modern day conservative bent which nourishes itself on anti-civil rights, anti-voting rights, anti-affirmative action, and just about any thing else that might help minorities as a way to rally support for anti-tax initiatives. Many have talked themselves into believing they are standing up for broad and deep-running veins of liberty. The whole country has been 'southernized' in this way.

It wasn't just blacks that came North during the 'Great Migrations' of the World War eras.

The South had untold numbers of instances wherein Southerners were against 'The South,' as it were.

Fuck 'The South.' I can say that while living in Southern lands and noting horrendous Northern injustices were race is concerned.
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Re: Tell me about the post-racist New South again

Postby Gramsci on Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:38 pm

phpBB [media]


So, the Civil War was About Slavery...
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Re: Tell me about the post-racist New South again

Postby Awesome_Komodo on Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:38 pm

Gramsci wrote:
phpBB [media]


So, the Civil War was About Slavery...
Anyone else think dude looks like a Nazi from an Indiana Jones movie?
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Re: Tell me about the post-racist New South again

Postby blackmarket on Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:24 am

‘One of our attorneys is a Jew’: Kayla Moore’s proof that Roy Moore is no anti-Semite

Getting ready to watch this statement catapult Roy Moore to a win in Alabama today.
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