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The Vinyl Bubble

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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby elisha wiesner on Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:13 pm

dvockins wrote:
elisha wiesner wrote:Even non dollar bin used records were just so much cheaper than they are now and unless it was something rare or a weird pressing or something, they were always cheaper than used CD's.

Are there CD $1 bins? There should be.

There's a pretty good argument for some kid to get into CDs right now, although I have no idea where the hell that hypothetical kid would buy them. $1 CD store / CDs by the pound place could be pretty cool if they turned over stock enough. It would be pretty funny to replace all my records with CDs 30 years after that was a thing.


There are CD dollar bins and I definitely hit them up. I don't own a smartphone or ipod and have a CD player in my truck and shop so I love the CD dollar bin. Or as it often is now, the $1.99 bin.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby cerebralheadtrip on Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:14 pm

sitwell wrote:I think the main thing is that CDs are a dead format, but some people still want a physical artifact of the record. My computer doesn't even have a CD player. I'm not even sure if new cars will soon. For a new record, I kind of expect LP+download code. I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to do LP sized art with a download code and no record. I could kind of see people buying that. Especially at shows.



lets not kid ourselves, LPs are a dead format too.

"a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory"
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby elisha wiesner on Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:17 pm

Also, a thing I've noticed recently is that used LP prices on Amazon can be way better than ebay or discogs. I have no idea why this is but I've picked up some good records at totally reasonable prices. The used selection is limited and somewhat a pain in the ass to search but I check there first if I'm looking for something online.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby sitwell on Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:21 pm

cerebralheadtrip wrote:
sitwell wrote:I think the main thing is that CDs are a dead format, but some people still want a physical artifact of the record. My computer doesn't even have a CD player. I'm not even sure if new cars will soon. For a new record, I kind of expect LP+download code. I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to do LP sized art with a download code and no record. I could kind of see people buying that. Especially at shows.



lets not kid ourselves, LPs are a dead format too.

"a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory"

Probably. If you're going to get a dead format, at least get the cool one. :)
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby eliya on Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:33 pm

cerebralheadtrip wrote:
sitwell wrote:I think the main thing is that CDs are a dead format, but some people still want a physical artifact of the record. My computer doesn't even have a CD player. I'm not even sure if new cars will soon. For a new record, I kind of expect LP+download code. I'm surprised someone hasn't tried to do LP sized art with a download code and no record. I could kind of see people buying that. Especially at shows.



lets not kid ourselves, LPs are a dead format too.

"a blip on an otherwise uninterrupted downward trajectory"


How do you define a blip? In the past couple of years at least two pressing plants expanded, one is supposed to open up (Jack White), and at least one new electroplating facility. On top of that, more mastering houses are cutting lacquers. And then there's turntable manufacturers and other accessories. I don't think LP is going to be the dominant format, and I don't think people are going to get rich out of manufacturing vinyl, but I also don't think this is a short-term blip.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby cerebralheadtrip on Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:57 pm

eliya wrote:How do you define a blip?


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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby eliya on Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:30 pm

All your graph is showing is that vinyl sales floored, and now they're going up again. It doesn't negate what I said - vinyl isn't going to be the dominant format again, but right now sales are better than in the late 80s, and sales have been on the rise for a decade now. Couple all that with the fact that several companies and people are throwing money into the vinyl manufacturing business, and I don't see how you can say that vinyl is still in decline.

Vinyl will eventually die, but it will die when all the current formats die. In 300 years no one will be listening to vinyl records, but also no one will be listening to CDs, nor will anyone talk about downloads or streaming.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby Bernardo on Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:37 pm

So now LP sales are higher than in 1989???
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby cerebralheadtrip on Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:45 pm

eliya wrote:All your graph is showing is that vinyl sales floored, and now they're going up again. It doesn't negate what I said - vinyl isn't going to be the dominant format again, but right now sales are better than in the late 80s, and sales have been on the rise for a decade now. Couple all that with the fact that several companies and people are throwing money into the vinyl manufacturing business, and I don't see how you can say that vinyl is still in decline.

Vinyl will eventually die, but it will die when all the current formats die. In 300 years no one will be listening to vinyl records, but also no one will be listening to CDs, nor will anyone talk about downloads or streaming.


im not really disagreeing. we're still dealing in millions of units, and even if it represents a small portion of the overall pie, its still a lot of jobs and sales and increased capacity in a segment that will definitely feel an appreciable effect.

but again, i think it will be interesting to see if this continues for another few years before saying its sustainable in the medium-term. fads are fickle. ask the people who put their retirement funds in beanie babies.

a lot of the increase is attributable to major labels re-issuing all sorts of shit in their catalogs...some of which is needed, a lot of which probably isnt. ultimately though, its hurting smaller artists in the short term who cant get records pressed and will naturally move onto other distribution methods. the core segment of record buyers are die hards who buy music through thick and thin. the bubble is everyone who has come on board recently. will the people buying "numbered collector's edition of country duo Joey & Rory's Hymns That Are Important To Us" at Cracker Barrel sustain this trend in the long run? or does this signal the point where we've hit peak absurdity? remains to be seen i guess.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby Tom Lael is Dogs on Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:03 pm

cerebralheadtrip wrote:
dvockins wrote:If people keep making these crap quality control records, though, records will get cheap again soon enough. If I were 15 right now instead of 1988 - man, fuck an LP. Fuck an LP for the same reasons I said fuck a CD or a tape in 1988.


yea its funny how this all comes full circle.

how much you wanna bet theres a CD revival in 10 years?

I'd bet my retirement savings on it. Digital downloads are killing off CDs, and to the kids a generation or two from now, they'll be just another charming anachronism to adopt.

To go further down the rabbit hole: I've been trying for years to get rid of my jewel cases (they're apparently not recyclable), but maybe I shouldn't be so hasty — they might be worth something when the CD bubble hits. ("For sale: original, 1993 pressing of In Utero in the original jewel case.")
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby eliya on Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:22 am

Tom Lael is Dogs wrote:("For sale: original, 1993 pressing of In Utero in the original jewel case.")


That's amazing that you have a jewel case that old that isn't broken. Jewel cases were a really bad design.

Did anyone figure out how much of vinyl sales is bullshit, actual novelty records? Like, who's buying these? Sure, "hipsters" and millennials caused vinyl to pick up again, but I think these crowds are buying actual records and not a numbered Joey & Rory LP, no?
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby noise&light on Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:50 am

This is well outside of the vinyl bubble. It's really about how much people are willing to spend on collectibles. But someone just spent $4043 on this 7 inch yesterday.

phpBB [media]


The song is pretty damn good! Particularly loving the snare sound. And it's from Chicago!

THE NOBLEMEN Short Time on Orlyn Ultra Rare 60s Chicago Garage Rock

Price:
$4043.00 USD
Start Date:
July 18, 2017
End Date:
July 25, 2017
Bids:
16
Seller Feedback:
4061
Buyer Feedback:
9107

The Noblemen Short Time / Jeanie (Orlyn ORL 66421)

Record Condition: VG+

Very clean copy of this extremely rare release on the esteemed Orlyn label.

This is the superior mix version with RCA matrix TK4M-6249/50.

Seldom offered and truly one of the best 60s garage punk 45s from Chicago.


I wonder how much someone would have paid for a mint copy.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby Redline on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:03 am

That's an awesome 45 (the other version of the same 45 was mastered too low). . Besides Last Time Around by the Del Vetts, that's one of the best 45's out of Chicago.
I've never seen one in the wild.

However, I do have the Dragon Walk by the Milwaukee Noblemen.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby Tommy on Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:57 am

eliya wrote:
Tom Lael is Dogs wrote:("For sale: original, 1993 pressing of In Utero in the original jewel case.")


That's amazing that you have a jewel case that old that isn't broken.


I've got like 1000 that are in mostly great shape. Not everyone treats stuff like dogshit.

eliya wrote:Jewel cases were a really bad design.

I actually don't think so. Pretty ingenius, actually. Won several design awards if I remember correctly. Easy to open once you've done it, yet hard for it to open on it's own and spill contents out. Could hold a pretty robust booklet and also use it as the cover display. Dropping them and cracking or breaking off the swing tab was really the only drawback.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby 154 on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:07 pm

Tommy wrote:
eliya wrote:Jewel cases were a really bad design.

I actually don't think so. Pretty ingenius, actually. Won several design awards if I remember correctly. Easy to open once you've done it, yet hard for it to open on it's own and spill contents out. Could hold a pretty robust booklet and also use it as the cover display. Dropping them and cracking or breaking off the swing tab was really the only drawback.


I think that was largely true of the black ones, but it seemed like a 50/50 crapshoot that the clear or translucent ones would have broken 'teeth' rattling around in the back of the tray, sometimes even on unopened copies. I understand from an art standpoint why those eventually became more popular (and eventually, digipaks and other more 'LP-like' packs) but the original ones certainly served their purpose.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby eliya on Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:14 pm

Tommy wrote:
eliya wrote:
Tom Lael is Dogs wrote:("For sale: original, 1993 pressing of In Utero in the original jewel case.")


That's amazing that you have a jewel case that old that isn't broken.


I've got like 1000 that are in mostly great shape. Not everyone treats stuff like dogshit.

eliya wrote:Jewel cases were a really bad design.

I actually don't think so. Pretty ingenius, actually. Won several design awards if I remember correctly. Easy to open once you've done it, yet hard for it to open on it's own and spill contents out. Could hold a pretty robust booklet and also use it as the cover display. Dropping them and cracking or breaking off the swing tab was really the only drawback.


Yeah, it's great it can do all these things, but also the majority of jewel cases I've seen had either the teeth in the center broken or the tabs that hold the booklet broken. Hey, I take good care of my stuff too!


This is relevant to this thread. And if you can't read the WSJ, this article is delivering the same message, apparently.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby Auntie Ovipositor on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:23 pm


Old LPs were cut from analogue tapes—that’s why they sound so high quality.

...AnalogPlanet.com... one of America’s leading audio authorities.

Couldn't possibly be because vinyl is a fad, no no no - it's because bad old digital recording is producing worse masters. Got it.

Both of those articles attribute a reason for the data being what it is, but neither one has any actual data to validate their conclusion. Just some opinions dressed up like facts.

Without getting into an argument of whether vinyl does or doesn't sound better, surely we can acknowledge that it's modest sales bump over the last 10 years (it's almost 5% of the market now!) is because of novelty more than quality, right?
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby Redline on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:56 pm

Auntie Ovipositor wrote:
Without getting into an argument of whether vinyl does or doesn't sound better, surely we can acknowledge that it's modest sales bump over the last 10 years (it's almost 5% of the market now!) is because of novelty more than quality, right?
Maybe, but better turntables are more affordable now, too, and vinyl manufacturers are making better records.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby El Protoolio on Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:10 pm

Redline wrote:Auntie Ovipositor wrote:
Without getting into an argument of whether vinyl does or doesn't sound better, surely we can acknowledge that it's modest sales bump over the last 10 years (it's almost 5% of the market now!) is because of novelty more than quality, right?
Maybe, but better turntables are more affordable now, too, and vinyl manufacturers are making better records.



I still buy records because I am 44 and have always bought records and listened in that format. From my parents collection as a child it's all I have known. I have been lucky in that the music I listen to never left records, other than a few random examples. I like handling them, reading them, flipping them, cleaning them, collecting them, shopping for them, browsing them, and playing them. Records give me the most value for my entertainment dollars out of anything I spend my money on. They are as valuable to me as an avid reader's hardback and paperback collection. It is not hyperbole or exaggeration to say that I use my records every single day for at least an hour or more. I tried going without them for a few years and I just didn't feel as connected to the experience. It all became background music and I missed the tactile experience of it.

But that's just me. Someone else's reasons for their record collection or lack of a collection is just as valid for them as this is for me.
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Re: The Vinyl Bubble

Postby eliya on Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:33 pm

FWIW, I don't agree with either article. I just posted it here because I saw it somewhere else and this thread just got bumped.

Auntie Ovipositor wrote:Without getting into an argument of whether vinyl does or doesn't sound better, surely we can acknowledge that it's modest sales bump over the last 10 years (it's almost 5% of the market now!) is because of novelty more than quality, right?


Here's another opinion (but not dressed as fact). I think it's partially novelty, and partially affordability, until the record companies tried to milk it to death. What's killing vinyl is dumb releases, like LP comedy albums, soundtracks for shows and movies that no one is going to buy, and records by artists whose audience most likely isn't going to buy vinyl. I think that crap is jamming the plants, so now it's harder for smaller bands, who actually have LP-buying audiences, from getting their record pressed.

The audiophiles argument is ridiculous. If anything, there are more records now that are mastered from the actual tapes where 10 years ago records were probably more likely to be reissued from the CDs.
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