home studios equipment staff/friends booking/rates for sale forum contact

Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby ::: on Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:21 am

Frank Decent wrote:ALl the best to people struggling. I'm drunk for the first time in months and I consider that a success. I didn't get drunk in the morning, which is what I used to do. I just had a couple beers. I'm okay with that. I mostly stick to weed because it mellows me out. It gets rid of the pool of anxiety I'm constantly treading water in.
WSIB wants me to take a trip to Toronto to be seen by some specialists so they can aid in my recovery. I guess I'm not getting "better" fast enough. Fine. Poke and prod. Just help me out. I have a silly fear they're goiing to lock me up. I know they won't. I'm no longer a danger to myself, however I just can't trust these strangers. It's going to be hard and weird, but whatever - I'm sick of being like this. I want my life back. I want to be "normal" and not struggle so much. I wish I could talk to my family but they'lll never get it. I feel like I have no family except for my fake wife. We're actually beginning to plan our real weddding. That blows my mind. We've been engaged for 16 years and now we're finally going to make it happen. My timing is ridiculous.

All the best to you, too, Frank. If it were me I'd just go to Toronto. From what you said it sounds like there's no real reason not to, and it may benefit you in ways you couldn't foresee or accomplish in TB. Re family, isn't the PRF sort of that, for you? Righteous noise-rock brothers and sisters? Also, congratulations, and have a fun wedding, and maybe your clue-deficient IRL family can fuck off for a while.
:::
man forced to eat beard
man forced to eat beard
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:37 am

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby ::: on Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:17 pm

It's probably not coincidental that my having stopped taking psychiatric medication (due to a lapse in prescription coverage, soon to be rectified) has been followed within a couple of weeks by a situation where I simply refuse to go anywhere or do anything or speak to anyone, preferring instead to play and replay the first three PiL albums ad nauseam and sing along with Uncle John.

Low life.
:::
man forced to eat beard
man forced to eat beard
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:37 am

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby ::: on Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:42 pm

Well that was unpleasant. Note to self: don't go off your meds, if you ever think you should.
:::
man forced to eat beard
man forced to eat beard
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:37 am

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Frank Decent on Fri May 12, 2017 12:36 pm

::: wrote:Well that was unpleasant. Note to self: don't go off your meds, if you ever think you should.


I'm sorry you had to go through this. Take care.
Redline wrote:The dead bodies on your mattress and the rubber sheets in your wardrobe should dampen the early reflections.
User avatar
Frank Decent
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Canaduh

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Frank Decent on Fri May 12, 2017 1:02 pm

There's an interesting discussion in another thread about anonymity on this forum. While I agree with the whole "standing behind your words" thing, I also don't think I could have made this thread without knowing that potential future employers couldn't hold my confessions against me. It's illegal for them to do so, but let's not kid ourselves - the stigma is very real, still.
I also do realize the cowardice and counter-intuitive nature of trying to kill stigma from a place of anonymity.
Being allowed to freely express myself here has been very important to me and I have tried my damnedest to not be a stupid dick.
I stand behind my words but I am not dumb enough to think there wouldn't be consequences for my honesty. The world's a fearful, ignorant place and I don't trust people to be kind and open-minded. So, I hide behind my moniker. I really think it matters less who is saying something than what is being said. We can still have a meaningful conversation and change peoples attitudes without revealing ourselves, I think. Even if the whole point is to change exactly that. It's fucked.

Also, I'm having a bad day. It started out great. At my favourite coffee shop, taking things slow. But I stupidly made the mistake of thinking I could handle caffeine. Now i'm fucked. My whole body is shaking and the bad thoughts are feeling powerful. My emotions are out of control. I can feel the tears waiting to pour out. I'll be living off clonazepam and naps today, if I want to function. I'm on a weird cocktail of Prozac, Respiridone, and Wellbutrin. The respiridone is fucking my sex life up and making me fat, so the Wellbutrin is meant to combat that. However, the Respiridone has been very effective at keeping me stable, in concert with Prozac. I asked my Psychiatrist if I could go off it and she said I could slowly try weaning myself off, since it's a low dose. However I can feel the difference. I don't feel right. I feel like I'm coming apart.
I'm just talking out loud. I think I'm needing help today, but I don't want to admit it. I want to be able to function normally. I don't want this constant shaking and inner-tornado to be stopping me. My life is already at a stand-still. I've made real progress with the help of my therapist, over the last few months. We're finally starting to delve into the incident that started me down this hellride. But I'm still not there. And it's hard sometimes. I'm not working. I have no idea what I'll be doing with my life now. I can't go back to my old job, according to my evaluations and I don't have many other skills. I'm trying to teach myself things at home. Things I might be interested in, vocationally, but I can't seem to concentrate. Ever. I can't start things. I don't know why. I make a list everyday of things I want to accomplish and can't seem to do it. All I do is fuck around on the internet, jumping around, never focusing. I hate this so much. I'm 41 years old and have no idea about my future. It seems like there's no nothing there.
Okay. Today will be a day where I use the tools I've developed over the last 2 years. I will use my meds responsibly, and I will refer to the lists I've made. I've made a list of reasons to live, which really helps me get my mind straight. And, I've made a list of reasons I like myself. Because, the truth is that I hate myself in so many ways. I've always hated myself. So, although it seems silly sometimes, saying the things I like about myself out loud really helps me get straight. I'm talking myself through this now. Sorry. I'm babbling. I don't want to go out of control. Use my tools.

Do you have any tools that you have developed in the fight for sanity and calm? I'd like to hear about it.
Redline wrote:The dead bodies on your mattress and the rubber sheets in your wardrobe should dampen the early reflections.
User avatar
Frank Decent
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Canaduh

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby bishopdante on Mon May 15, 2017 6:25 am

::: wrote:Well that was unpleasant. Note to self: don't go off your meds, if you ever think you should.


Man, I'm really sorry to hear that.

To my mind drug dependency is a very worrying phenomenon, and that it's very easy for a person to mistake the comedown/withdrawal from a substance for mental illness, especially if the drug consumption is chronic. There are I would not doubt a great many people who have been made drug dependent who did not have to be.

There is a lot of money to be made by pharmaceutical companies from lifetime subscribers to various drugs.

To my mind the ideal scenario is where a therapy involves treating the problems at their root, rather than chronic pallative medication.

There may well be some people who require drugs for life, but I would certainly suggest that achieving mental equilibrium and using the magical powers of neuroplasticity by employing regular mental exercises and methods of managing situations and perceptions to achieve a cheerful mental state is likely preferable to chronic use of drugs.

Here's an article written by a friend of mine about people using illegal substances to medicate for mental health issues.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/peop ... egal-drugs

Heroin for depression... or parkinsons? Well... it's well-known that these drugs are *extremely* addictive and tolerance building, and the withdrawal is brutal.

I remember reading an academic article years back about addiction, drug dependence, legal and illegal drugs, and cocaine analogs, which are being tried for treating depression.

The quote that stuck in my mind was roughly "the problem with synthetic cocaine analogs is that they tend to have more severe side effects and toxicological profiles than cocaine itself, and are just as addictive. Creating a drug which does not modulate dopamine reuptake removes its efficacy, but is non-addictive. There is really no way round the matter. In many ways it'd be easy to treat depression if we could prescribe cocaine, it outperforms most of the approved medications on the market and has relatively benign side effects compared to synthetic cocaine analogues".

__________

In terms of achieving physical and mental health, I would recommend TCM to anybody, since it deals with the whole body as a system.

It's at least worth getting a consultation.

___________

I have the utmost sympathy for people experiencing psychological pain and disturbance, and I have had a bunch of experiences myself. Many of the people around me over the years have had these issues also, and drug abuse I am quite certain stems from and leads to these issues.

___________

Meditation is also something worth investigating, also.

Ironically, the NCBI review also comes with some warnings about the risks.

This article has explored research to date concerning the efficacy of introducing meditation into the therapeutic setting. I have presented the views of proponents and critics of the relaxation model of meditation and of theories describing the cognitive changes brought about by meditation--for example, Deikman's theory of the deautomatization of consciousness and Delmonte's view that meditation may be utilized to bring about "ascendence," "descendence," and "transcendence." After summarizing psychoanalytic and Jungian arguments against meditation, the writings of several transpersonal psychologists have been cited to demonstrate the differences in how psychotherapy and meditative disciplines conceptualize personal identity, work with unconscious material, and view the experience of emptiness. I conclude that the question of whether meditation should be used in therapy can be answered only by considering what therapeutic goals are being sought in a particular instance and whether or not meditation can reasonably be expected to facilitate achievement of those goals. Meditation may, in some cases, be compatible with, and effective in, promoting the aims of psychotherapy--for example, cognitive and behavioral change, or access to the deep regions of the personal unconscious. In other cases, it may be strongly contraindicated, especially when the therapeutic goal is to strengthen ego boundaries, release powerful emotions, or work through complex relational dynamics--ends which may be more effectively reached through standard psychotherapeutic methods than through meditation. Meditation may be of great value, however, through its capacity to awaken altered states of consciousness that may profoundly reorient an individual's identity, emotional attitude, and sense of wellbeing and purpose in life.

________

Of course, far be it from me to know your situation, condition, and I am anything but a trained psychiatrist.

But there are a good number of highly qualified people from that industry who suggest that over-medication is the norm, justified by the shaky or incomplete scientific understanding of neurology and neurodynamics (the human nervous system is estimated to have as many moving parts as there are celestial bodies in the universe), and over-medication and back-of-the envelope diagnosis is currently a serious problem with today's psychiatric industry.

Drugs are quick, easy, and profitable. They can be manufactured and retailed as a product, whereas other methods are far harder to roll out, measure, and make consistent.

Too often unadvertised or unacknowledged drug side effects are labelled as mental health problems. SSRIs and benzodiazepenes have been shown to be neurotoxic with chronic use, and require a managed withdrawal. Cold turkey is inadvisable.
502 Bad Gateway · nginx/1.0.8
User avatar
bishopdante
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
 
Posts: 4242
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:25 am
Location: London

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Janeway on Mon May 15, 2017 6:50 am

it's not the war on drugs,it's the war on love. when love is missing in an abusive or some other negative way, we in turn abuse ourselves with things that love us back if human beings don't, whether it's alcohol or hard drugs or overspending on shopping sprees. addicts are those who can't control the overloving themselves, abusers are those that have to overlove themsleves too often and we all just fall somewhere in there unless your family is mr rogers and congrats.

it's the same root problem, it just depends on who you talk to for whatever cure they suggest, whether it's tylenol or black tar heroin for a headache is what you're supposed to recognize yourself subscribing to. i personally recommend cannabis for being a silly leaf that's impossible to overdose and has yet to kill anyone from overconsumption. and western medicine, but don't just go to the first jobin psychologist that you meet, i would imagine you'd have to date through a bunch of psychologists to find a good match.
Kayte wrote: i'm like, pour me a fucking synthohol bish.
User avatar
Janeway
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
 
Posts: 3497
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:27 pm
Location: here

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby bishopdante on Mon May 15, 2017 7:00 am

Yes, I absolutely agree about the joylessness, callousness, narcissism and stressfulness of modern society being highly toxic. Stress and emotional abuse are rampant. Changing the habits and/or situation are critical.

What sort of multi-generational mental and physically traumatic conditions are being bred in places like Syria, Afghanistan or Iraq... serious. Very. It should be considered very gravely. There are orphaned homeless kids camped under bridges taking heroin, aged 5 to 12. It's one of the saddest things I've ever seen (various investigations posted online by independent documentary film makers).

I would not try to drug away the symptoms of an abusive social or professional situation, although when under substantial stress there is evidence to suggest that chemical intervention can mitigate the damage. If you have had a really f**ed up experience, acutely, it's medically justifiable to use a substance, and a bit of alcohol isn't a bad candidate - but the important feature is to de-stress as quickly after a traumatic event as possible. Ideally without chemicals. Behind many cases of alcoholism I have *no* doubt that there is chronic stress or abuse, and it would be incorrect to point the finger at an over-indulgent personality where you find an alcoholic. Temporary use is fine, but alcohol dependence is horrific, and I have seen a person nearly die from the withdrawal. It's one of the only drugs which withdrawal can be fatal. It scared the daylights out of me (I was 17, and my colleague was in his 50s or 60s, and it had crept up on him over a few decades, of working to fierce deadlines on global-scale projects. He was and still is a great guy, and it took him 18 months in a locked in facility to get sober).

But cannabis does have some pretty well-known side-effects, and recent investigations by Dr Michael Bloomfield at Imperial College London have turned up some rather worrying evidence which correlates with stuff I have witnessed myself (a number of people I have known have gone very scarily psychotic, or cannot touch the stuff without getting very paranoid) that taking it excessively, especially in early adolescence can have some developmental effects which are chronic, and have been recently investigated fairly thoroughly by neurological studies. Chilling. I would absolutely not recommend giving cannabis to little kids. 14 is far too young. 18 is probably too young.

I have also spoken to a few neurologist friends who have seen cases of very serious and irreversible (in their experience with current modern medicine) effects from people taking it just once, including total loss of speech. They said they were not clear on how that happens (could it be a neurotoxic pesticide or fungicide sprayed onto black market gear?), but that the modern ultra-strong breeds of plant are resulting in a known epidemic of cases, which were not seen in the 1970s. It isn't risk free, and is orders of magnitude stronger than it was in the past.

However, in the case of people using cannabis for pain in later life once the prefrontal cortex is fully developed (after the age of 30-40 or so), it's been shown to be fairly safe, and the amount of people who consume it with relatively low levels of harm (less than alcohol) is well known.

Cannabis should and probably will be available on prescription for people with MS and other auto-immune neurological conditions. Here's the science https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828614/ basically it knocks out the immune system while protecting nerve cells. It also seems to be effective as a gastronintestinal anti-inflammatory, and my friend who has ulcerative colitis benefits from it. There is growing evidence to suggest that many mood disorders are not only about the brain, but also the gut, connected by the vagus nerve. Hence the old saying "gut feeling".

Vagus nerve dysfunction, (and/or of the organs connected to it) is associated with anything from anxiety to tinnitus to heart disease to leaky gut. https://selfhacked.com/2015/07/30/28-wa ... -about-it/

It''s also theorised to be involved in autism: http://autismcoach.com/blog-info-articl ... important/

Critically the vagus nerve/system competes with the HPA axis (adrenaline), and chronic maternal stress / anxiety is associated with vagus dysfunction in the foetus & child... one of the many ways that stress/abuse issues can be multi-generational, without any genes needing to be involved.

Whether or not cannabis is advisable for you as a medicine depends on what is wrong. At least now that the laws have been updated some scientific research can get done.

In the '90s I was on the "weed is safe" team.

I know now from personal experience that cannabis is addictive, and tolerance-building. I outright abused it for years when my friends (KJD) died, and I messed up a lot of stuff stoned on white widow and the like, which allowed some toxic people to treat me horribly. It can hijack your reward system rather, being a dopamine drug. Especially if you aren't getting much fun from elsewhere. By abusing I am talking well over an ounce a week just maintenance, not even getting wrecked. Half an Oz in a day, no fuss.

Getting off it isn't too hard, but it took me about six months after ceasing consuming it to actually have a clear head, and had a fairly acute six week withdrawal.

Another rather worrying feature of cannabis is that pure THC is a very scary experience, whereas THC plus CBD is what most people associate with the pleasant recreational effect. The problem is that THC is oil-soluble, not water soluble, and it stores up in your fat. When you burn that fat, you'll get a very paranoid / anxious experience. Potentially for quite a long time.

Sure, cannabis is nowhere near as addictive as nicotine, cocaine or heroin. I ain't been near the horse, but I know people who have, and have read many accounts of how serious that drug is. As for the oxycontin / fentanyl / carfentanyl going down in the USA... terrifying.

It should also be noted that both opiates and cannabis are part of the TCM pharmacopeia, cannabis flowers are called "Da Ma". However, you won't get those in your prescription from a TCM clinician in the EU or USA, because they are controlled substances, but they are used in China. Another known psychoactive herb you won't get in the USA is ephedra root (containing ephedrine).

Cannabis has been used for well over 1000 years in the Chinese medicine system, and in that system it is acknowledged to have side effects which must be accounted for with other herbs, and used sparingly - suppression of the immune systen being a hazard. Eating disorders or anorexia are the usual application, but it is also used against pain or to cause sedation. For extreme pain, opium is used, but very judiciously, and with a long-term followup of other herbs to counteract the withdrawal.

_______

An intriguing question regarding analgesic pain medication and addiction is "why do people receiving opiates for grievous physical injuries not get addicted, while recreational users often do".

One of the plausible explanations is in an area of the prefrontal cortex called the insular, which is involved in remembering what state you were in, and in decision making... avoiding painful experiences and seeking pleasurable ones.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_cortex

This suggests the possibility that people who have developed opiate dependence to counteract chronic psychological pain, should they solve the underlying issues, they may well not find an opiated existence to be preferable, just like a person in terrible physical pain does not seek to return to that medical emergency. It won't make the withdrawal or toxic effects any less unpleasant, though. I have noticed that the people I've known take that path have been harbouring a lot of unprocessed pain, but it's a serious condition, and a class of drug that can in the wrong dose can cause death (by sedation).

__________

The emerging scientific understanding of the body as an interconnected ecosystem, its interconnected functioning resulting in consciousness and sensation, many of the features of chronic psychological suffering can be addressed by considering the whole body. Mental health is just a dimension of health.

Brain disease would be the wrong way to think about it.

Certainly there is a great deal to be said for understanding the toxic effects and conditions that have led to suffering, and realising how involuntary and cyclical abuse can become.

Stress and fear are potentially toxic and shut off whole dimensions of a person or society's humanity. Flashbacks and conditioned responses take discipline to train out. They're subconscious, and bodily. Toxic.

As are toxic chemicals, such as lead or mercury.

If you can keep it clean, that's healthy.

phpBB [media]


It's OK to bear some scars. To make mistakes and learn from them.

It's very important to keep yourself properly fIlled up with sleep, food, ideas, experiences, relationships. Go without those and mental / physical health will suffer terribly. That works, and a lot of problems can be DIY'd.

But sometimes you need a mechanic, a proper trained expert. I have found that the right TCM practitioner leveraging plants and the fruits of over 7000 years of trial and error, which in today's world is combined with highly scientific methods, it's worked well for me

Primarily for the fluoroquinolone toxicity syndrome I developed after years of cannabis abuse (suppressing my immune system), bereavement, not eating properly, not sleeping properly... somebody turned up, found my shoes in the control room, and put them in a cupboard in another building, then left... and I had no shoes! For two weeks! In North Wales. Stepping in freshly-slaughtered mouse blood from the large black cat on the patio. So I ended up repeatedly cutting my foot regularly on a kick drum chain, which got infected. I was given antibiotics back in London. That nuked the infection.

But then, after a week or two, I had a cup of coffee. That triggered what I now know is FQ toxicity syndrome.

The effects of fluoroquinolone toxicity syndrome were *horrific*. The acute phase was totally blind, with a crushing headache. World gone. Dying. Say your prayers.

When I somehow came back, after a week of being convinced I was about to die... my vision slowly faded back. A little. To 80% TV static. "Oh man... I'm gonna be blind?".

For the next decade, it was ike being on ketamine all the time, TV static in my vision, peripheral neuropathy, blood not clotting, digestive system not working properly. Joints clicking. Tendinitis. Brain fog. Insomnia. Not good for a musician. Not that great for a sound engineer, or a designer / computers guy.

I was told many times by various medical professionals "you seem to be fine, and antibiotics can't do that... we can't find much wrong with you".

However, a decade and a half later... the evidence has come to light. Campaigns have been run by victims and their families. All of whom had the same experience with doctors being unable to find the cause. Scientific studies have now been conducted. It's now accepted by the official establishment.

I am kinda proud that last week I had the letter from my neurologist suggesting that all the other explanations for my symptoms have been ruled out, and that I should be referred to a specialist in FQ toxicity syndrome, should the NHS have such a person/facility.

The experience has given me a lot of food for thought. I wouldn't wish debilitating neurological conditions on anybody.

Be careful what you put in your body. Don't trust pharmaceutical companies to understand exactly what any substance does, or can do in combination with your particular constitution and genetics.

A research scientist would suggest... the answers don't come easy. We don't know everything about how the body works.

______

_______

Another very important feature about people freaking out, being abusive, spitting fire and hate...

They've got a problem. They've freaked out. Gone over the edge. Under such circumstances, really, what you are seeing is somebody in severe distress, back up against the wall and knives out... don't take it to heart. They're freaking out. They may just be reliving something, or they may just have gone over the edge.

But if what you are doing is triggering an acute stress response... stop it. And help them.

Yes, professionals are good, and they have skills, but it should be everybody's responsibility to help a person in distress.

We have something of a postmodern pop psychology epidemic, involving labelling people with simple diagnoses, typecasting them. I think it is a bit of a toxic thought process, and much of the underlying neurological science is quite speculative. The science is *way* further on than where it was at a few decades ago, what with gene sequencers and functional brain scanning. It makes the 1950s look like the medieval period.

One unfortunate feature is that 'normal' is not an ideal definition. Personality is very much part of being a human. It's a risk to typecast people as three letter acronyms, or to suggest that finding it hard to cope with modern society means you have something wrong with you.

________

Here is a video of some of the emerging neuroscience regarding stress:

phpBB [media]


It really does make me worry that our modern society is getting a lot of priorities quite wrong. Especially in the hectic, millisecond-ping-time and politically aggravated era we are in right now (cue footage of iPhone / Foxconn factory worker jumping out of a window).

________

I'd like to thank all of the people of the PRF for putting up with my excessive column inches. I still feel like a newb.

Many thanks for both setting me straight when I'm mistaken, and letting me contribute my voice, and share what I have managed to cling onto, or cram into my mind, over the years.

Partly because I worry that my mind, after the thrashing, may not last. I don't honestly know how long I'll be lucid, or living.

None of us do. My dear friends taught me a heavy lesson... in today's world people can be snuffed out like candles with no warning.

For me the PRF has been honestly a bit of a life saver, psychologically speaking.

Salut.
Last edited by bishopdante on Sat May 20, 2017 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
502 Bad Gateway · nginx/1.0.8
User avatar
bishopdante
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
 
Posts: 4242
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:25 am
Location: London

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Pasta on Fri May 19, 2017 7:05 am

Been struggling pretty hard of late. Ptsd and survivors guilt (cancer). Was drinking to much, working on that.

After work today I go to a cancer survivors writing workshop group. Nervous, but, know I need to try something new.

Found a shrink. Start seeing her in 2 weeks.

Just a lot.
Ninety Five Cents? FUCK YOU!!! I'LL SKATE TO THE BEACH.
User avatar
Pasta
Fucking Survivor....Fuck Cancer
 
Posts: 2861
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:11 pm
Location: Doom Town

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby bishopdante on Fri May 19, 2017 10:02 am

I found this on a question and answer website.

Question: "what was the worst drug to withdraw from".

Answer: benzodiazapenes.

Benzodiazepines. These drugs blow every other drug class, even opiates, out of the water. Not only can benzo withdrawal kill you but it can cause permanent & lasting unfortunate side effects. I'm a recovering addict which is why I'm in the buisness that I'm in. Having personally experienced opiate withdrawals, which are fierce & beyond misery, nothing prepared me for withdrawing from klonopin, Xanax, & temazapam. My old psychiatrist started me on klonopin , Xanax, & temazapam in 2001 & in early 2012, I was taking 40 Mgs of Xanax & klonopin a day (20mgs of each drug) & on top of the 40mgs, I was taking 30mgs of the Temazepam. My old shrink has since lost his medical license & well he should! He never told me that I could die if I suddenly stopped taking them or even indicated that there were any sort of terrible side effects from the drugs. He also told me that in some cases , benzos can be used as long term therapy for those with intense, paralyzingly anxiety, which I definitely used to have on top of horrible insomnia. For some reason, he thought that by increasing the dose of benzos , it would eventually help. But like alcohol, they caused more anxiety than not. In any event, I was going into rehab anyway, but I was so sick from the withdrawal from the benzos that I couldn't even hold a phone , or anything else for that matter, until my cousin finally decided to duct tape my cell to my hand & then he taped my hand to my ear. I was finally able to tell the rehab that I needed to be admitted ASAP due to the benzo withdrawal. The tremors & shakes were that violent. This is a list of my symptoms : (again, going cold turkey off benzos- something you should NEVER , EVER DO!)

- seizures - I had 7 of them complete with foam coming out of my mouth. I'm extremely lucky to be here & writing this list.

- hallucinations- my bedroom walls were oozing blood & that lime green goo from Ghostbusters. I heard people talking who weren't there, saw stars & my vision would change hues ; one minute everything would be tinged blue & the next it would be pink etc. "Shadow people" as I've come to call them (people who resemble shadows) & crowes that hovered in the corners of my eyes. Nearly 3 years later, I'm still dealing with all of these symptoms but not even remotely close to what I experienced while I was in the throes of withdrawal.

-Involuntary limb movements- my tongue would roll around in my mouth & it felt slightly swollen but more to the point, I couldn't control it's movements. I was in a constant state of activity & because of this, I couldn't even try to relax, eating anything or drinking something was impossible. My other limbs would just suddenly move on their own & again, I had no control over them. I'm still dealing with this today minus the involuntary tongue rolling. I've accidentally punched people , hit myself, slammed my foot down on the gas or break pedals while driving at the WORST times & so on.

-The PAIN- ok, anyone who knows me , knows I have a rediculously high pain tolerance. For example, when I had my son, I had to have an emergency c-section. Prior to the announcement from my MD that she needed to do the c-section, I was in labor but felt basically nothing, despite watching the monitor & seeing that my contractions were extremely strong. This was without an epidural etc. But the pain caused by this withdrawal was just incomparable. Imagine having the most intense chronic migraine that ever existed that causes your eyeballs to hurt, your face to hurt, your nose & your lips to hurt. There's no way I can accurately describe the pain that besieged my entire body except this, I did everything in my power to NOT move while I was lying in bed. That's how bad the pain was. When I switched positions, I'd have a seizure or who knows what else. The back pain/ cramps in my neck all down my spine into my hips was excruciating. There's absolutely nothing that can compare. Oh, can't forget extremely high fevers that came on randomly & suddenly.

-GI Upset- as with most withdrawals , your gut helps purge your body of toxins but in this case, it was in hyper speed.

-Balance/ body equilibrium no longer exists- During the withdrawal process, I realized that I had lost my ability to balance properly. From walking into walls to falling down randomly or feeling as if the floor I was walking on was actually moving, I couldn't & still can't walk in a straight line. I recall hanging on to my rehab friends as we walked around the campus because I had no ability to perceive or judge the proper distance to move my legs , especially when stairs were/are involved. I can't stand on one foot & balance properly as I once used to. Essentially, I'd fail a DUI road test despite being 100% sober. While this issue has gotten a bit better, it's a painful reminder of what benzos can do to you. I used to have amazing balance but not anymore:(

-Memory- this is strange because again, I'm not sure if I can describe this accurately but I'll give it a shot. My memory , both short term & long term, suffered a lot of damage. The main problems are : lost memories of things I wish I could remember. Even looking at pictures to try to jog my memory or listening to friends & family describe a past event, many of my memories are gone. Not even little pieces of memories remain. But what I think is worse is this; I've lost the ability to spell words correctly, read & understand meanings of words& on some days , I cannot remember the right words to use , whether it's talking to someone or writing /texting & so on. The frustration, especially for someone like me who is an avid book reader, writer, knowledge hound etc , is beyond painful.

-Insomnia - eternal insomnia. While I do take medications to help me sleep, I still have issues with insomnia & if anyone has experienced a bout of insomnia, you know how uncomfortable it can be.

- These are just a few of the symptoms that I had. When I checked in to rehab, my blood pressure was so out of wack that they almost put me in an ambulance & sent me off to the local hospital. I was violently sick for the first 11 days, despite being tapered of the benzos. I had 2 round the clock nurses with me who checked my blood pressure every 5 minutes & I'm not kidding about that. My body was profusely sweating, shaking, going from too hot to far too cold all within a matter of minutes. I believe I posted this elsewhere, but doctors have said that the most painful thing for them to observe is to watch people detox from benzos. It's THAT bad. Just stay away from them!

Added Content: I forgot to mention that my digestive system is all out of wack & if I eat too fast I get these terrible sharp, burning pains right in the middle of my stomach. Also, my ability to swallow drinks has been damaged as well. I might be thirsty & dehydrated beyond imagine so I'll grab a large beverage of whatever thinking I'm going to chug it when in reality, I need a straw now because it helps me to be able to drink more. My friends laugh at me but it's really not funny. I've had the pleasure of meeting three other people like me & they all have 10 years + sobriety from benzos & they continue to have some of the same problems that I have. One person continues to have random seizures but they are few & far between. It just goes to show that these drugs are more damaging than beneficial.


Many psychiatric professionals have been an still are unaware of how serious the withdrawal effects from benzodiazapenes can be, and continue to hand them out like magic candy.

If you can be drug free... the risks of ADRs (adverse drug reactions) and addiction/withdrawal effects are... well... zero.

"Just take your meds"... I wouldn't recommend blind faith in drugs.

The Internet is very good for finding information and advice, and most medical professionals are busy treating people, so they don't necessarily have time to be thorough in their investigations of what any particular drug does.
502 Bad Gateway · nginx/1.0.8
User avatar
bishopdante
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
 
Posts: 4242
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:25 am
Location: London

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Frank Decent on Fri May 19, 2017 12:03 pm

Pasta wrote:Been struggling pretty hard of late. Ptsd and survivors guilt (cancer). Was drinking to much, working on that.

After work today I go to a cancer survivors writing workshop group. Nervous, but, know I need to try something new.

Found a shrink. Start seeing her in 2 weeks.

Just a lot.


Glad you found a shrink, man. It's good to have someone to talk to and give a more healthy perspective. Take care.
Redline wrote:The dead bodies on your mattress and the rubber sheets in your wardrobe should dampen the early reflections.
User avatar
Frank Decent
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Canaduh

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Frank Decent on Fri May 19, 2017 1:41 pm

I guess I should actually have a shower, eat food, brush my damn teeth, put on clean clothes and basically take care of myself before I send myself off the rails. I can see the signs now - basic self-care ignored and before long the dark thoughts appear and the spiral begins. Going to fix that right now. I want to have a nice weekend, dammit.
Take care, friends.
Redline wrote:The dead bodies on your mattress and the rubber sheets in your wardrobe should dampen the early reflections.
User avatar
Frank Decent
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Canaduh

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby jimmy spako on Fri May 19, 2017 4:09 pm

Take care, FD. You've got tools, some days they work, some days they don't. But you are in another place now with those tools and that insight it seems. You feel things and make noise and love people, you're very alive, although uncomfortably so. Much love and respect to you.
Isabelle Gall wrote:'Do not go smoothly into that dark night'


the preterite
User avatar
jimmy spako
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4842
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:49 am
Location: schnitzel circuit

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Pasta on Fri May 19, 2017 6:48 pm

FM FRANK DECENT, I'm here in solidarity with you, brother.

FM bishop.....

Yeah, meds aren't for everyone. But, for some of us they have been life changin/saving. That said they don't help if you don't put in the other work, be it talk therapy, meditation, CBT.

But, your apperant shaming of people on meds is not helpful to anyone posting in this thread. Everyones journey to emotional/mental stability is different. Please, be more kind, and open minded to others experiences.
Ninety Five Cents? FUCK YOU!!! I'LL SKATE TO THE BEACH.
User avatar
Pasta
Fucking Survivor....Fuck Cancer
 
Posts: 2861
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:11 pm
Location: Doom Town

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby seanurban on Fri May 19, 2017 10:28 pm

Pasta wrote:FM FRANK DECENT, I'm here in solidarity with you, brother.

FM bishop.....

Yeah, meds aren't for everyone. But, for some of us they have been life changin/saving. That said they don't help if you don't put in the other work, be it talk therapy, meditation, CBT.

But, your apperant shaming of people on meds is not helpful to anyone posting in this thread. Everyones journey to emotional/mental stability is different. Please, be more kind, and open minded to others experiences.

i didn't get that vibe from BD. It's just another perspective. In light of recent events, I appreciated it.
User avatar
seanurban
King High
 
Posts: 4577
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:22 pm

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby bishopdante on Sat May 20, 2017 8:14 am

No way am I shaming anybody for taking drugs, legal or illegal.

I'm just questioning the safety of them. The human brain has more moving parts than there are celestial bodies in the observable universe, and how you feel or think isn't just your brain. Neuroscience is still in its infancy and is a fiendishly complex field.

I'm just saying be careful, and if you can change the toxic features of an abusive situation rather than doing a chemical intervention to carry in coping with a bad situation, that is what I'd recommend. Most psychiatric medications, especially chronically applied, will have side effects... and it's easy to mistake the side effects of a drug for a pre-existing psychological disturbance.

Serious neurological toxicity is *very* unpleasant, and I have not myself plumbed the depths, I've only been part of the way down that road.

It's entirely possible to be out of the frying pan and into the fire taking drugs, whether they're prescribed by a psychiatrist or acquired from a black market drug dealer.

My situation from the FQ toxicity (particularly the insomnia) in combination with overwork, exhaustion and some workplace abuse... it got so bad that I had as few seizures and experienced a full-on reactive psychosis episode. 3 days of tripping my nuts off. Experiencing a "crashed" hippocampus / grand mal seizure is terrifying. It's easy to take thinking straight and feeling OK for granted, and to underestimate how serious it can get if you go over the edge. A concatenation of toxic effects can knock a person for six. There are many toxic influences in modern society.

In terms of medical interventions, I would recommend Chinese herbs to anybody. It's a deep medical tradition, but as with anything, you do need to find the right practitioner. I absolutely respect the way that the system treats the whole body, not just one part of it.

For example, anxiety disorders may have their roots in the kidney area (adrenal gland) or HPA axis, as much as the brain. Diet is important, many features are to be considered.

Current science is increasingly showing that stress is incredibly dangerous and physiologically toxic. If you need to take something to de-stress, that's indicative of a serious issue, but to my mind the ideal is to find ways of doing it without drugs.

My favourite way of discharging stress is beating the hell out of some drums. Love it. NB: You can give yourself an injury doing that, too.
502 Bad Gateway · nginx/1.0.8
User avatar
bishopdante
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
 
Posts: 4242
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:25 am
Location: London

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Heaven is in your beard on Sat May 20, 2017 10:35 am

Pasta wrote:FM FRANK DECENT, I'm here in solidarity with you, brother.

FM bishop.....

Yeah, meds aren't for everyone. But, for some of us they have been life changin/saving. That said they don't help if you don't put in the other work, be it talk therapy, meditation, CBT.

But, your apperant shaming of people on meds is not helpful to anyone posting in this thread. Everyones journey to emotional/mental stability is different. Please, be more kind, and open minded to others experiences.


I agree. I actually am on the autistic spectrum - got diagnosed with Aspergers' Syndrome back in 1999 - and have struggled with bullying and social exclusion throughout my childhood, followed by depression and anxiety for much of my adult life because of it. This was especially true back in the 80s/early 90s when no-one knew what the hell AS was and there was no support available. In those day they just threw you into mainstream education and expected you to sink or swim. Those who couldn't got labelled as lazy, obtuse, socially inept or just plain weird rather than disabled. I also have some traits associated with both ADHD and OCD, which frequently co-occur with Aspergers'.

Whilst autistic spectrum disorders are lifelong and - at least currently - incurable, I've found that amitriptyline has been a godsend to me in terms of dealing with the depression. it's the fifth different anti-depressant I've been prescribed and the only one which has ever really worked that well. I no longer get these debilitating moodswings that used to prevent me from functioning beyond the bare minimum requirements anymore, and I can now face up to problems and tackle them head on rather than just becoming overwhelmed and wanting to recluse out whenever something unpleasant happens in my life. It's also enabled me to hold down consistent employment for longer than I've ever been able to in my life before, and I'm fairly well convinced that without it I'd still be an unstable mess.

That's why I sometimes get slightly irritated when I come across people IRL who preach blanket condemnation of all psych meds. One of the most common ignorant kneejerk reactions I've heard runs along the lines of "I don't think it's healthy to that you have to take pills every day just to feel normal. Aren't you worried that they might be altering your underlying personality?" To which the answer is "no, you fricking idiot, because the personality I have when I'm on the pills IS my real personality. I'm not a negative person by nature - I've just been through some unlucky shit that's turned my head that way". I really wish more people could understand this, and I also agree that the stigma surrounding mental illness needs to be chipped away. How many more Kurt Cobains and Chris Cornells do we need to lose before people start to realise how many people depression kills?
There's two Neil Youngs. Two of them. There's two now.
User avatar
Heaven is in your beard
president bartlett
president bartlett
 
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby bishopdante on Sat May 20, 2017 3:14 pm

I would certainly remark upon what I have read of Mr Cobain's stomach affliction as an example of the interconnected body, particularly the vagus nerve system and how much of the neuroendocrine system lives in the stomach, and the inability of western medicine to diagnose or treat his affliction(s), which reportedly led him to seek relief by taking smack.

I don't know exactly what a trained TCM practitioner would have diagnosed, but I do have a few hunches:

There is a pattern the TCM system calls liver stagnation invading spleen and stomach.

Symptoms: Fatigue, mood swings, anxiety, depression, acid reflux, stomach ulcers, stomach cancer, pale complexion, jaundice, abdominal swelling. The affliction is temporarily alleviated by various drugs, including alcohol, cannabis and opiates. However the effects in the longterm often get worse by using those pain-relieving drugs.

What causes it (according to TCM)? Psychological/emotional stress, overwork, poor diet.

Some of the equivalent western diagnoses of this pattern are IBS and Crohn's disease.

Depression has been observed in western medicine to be statistically prevalent as typically comorbid with those syndromes.
502 Bad Gateway · nginx/1.0.8
User avatar
bishopdante
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
 
Posts: 4242
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:25 am
Location: London

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Frank Decent on Thu May 25, 2017 9:13 pm

Having a weird/bad day. Slept till 2pm, which is unusual lately. Didn't take very good care of myself. Practiced for a show we have tomorrow, and that felt good. I didn't really realize something was wrong till about 7pm, after our workout. Exercising helps. I guess this is depression? I don't know anymore. Just couldn't stop stupidly crying for a while. Went skateboarding. That felt really good. Came home and the bad thoughts returned, louder. I have a lot of tools and I should use them but it's hard to do anything. I know I just have to ride this out. It will pass.
Redline wrote:The dead bodies on your mattress and the rubber sheets in your wardrobe should dampen the early reflections.
User avatar
Frank Decent
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Canaduh

Re: Mental Health and Stigma Killing Machine

Postby Frank Decent on Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:05 pm

Hey, how y'all doing? Good, I hope. I'm feeling a lot better since I went back on my Risperidone. More stable in mood and all that. Whatever. It's a tool. I'll use it. No shame.
Redline wrote:The dead bodies on your mattress and the rubber sheets in your wardrobe should dampen the early reflections.
User avatar
Frank Decent
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
Man with Encyclopedic Knowledge
 
Posts: 5108
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:04 pm
Location: Canaduh

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 10 guests