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Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex Ring

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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Big John on Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:20 am

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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Boombats on Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:08 pm

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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Pasta on Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:15 pm

FM Orangetree are you actually James Ellroy, working on some perverse continuation of your cannon?

Seems like a lot of work going on, by a lot of people, just to persecute you.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby 24K on Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:56 pm

Pasta wrote:
Seems like a lot of work going on, by a lot of people, just to persecute you.


If the whole orangetree persona isn't an elaborate ruse, I'd venture it's a case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder & a pretty severe one at that. If any of the artists mentioned have google alerts set up she/he is opening themselves up for possible litigation. Given he/she has already claimed to have harassed family members this would probably be warranted & deserved.

A lot of psychiatric conditions can be medicated but NPD is a tough one. Their false sense of 'grandeur'
gives them carte blanche to mess with peoples lives in horrid & destructive ways & I don't find it amusing.

The only solution I can see is for them to have their means of communication (destruction) shut down.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby bishopdante on Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:36 pm

Umm, no offense intended, but the various DSM labellings compared to the sophistication of a person's physiology / psyche are worryingly vague, and inappropriate to use outside a professional therapeutic setting (and likely not that helpful full stop). what today is called NPD used to be called megalomania.

Paranoia and confabulation are associated with all sorts of diagnoses -
Most notably bipolar and the extremely unhelpful label "schizophrenia" (which many argue should be relabelled a much less conclusive term psychosis-spectrum https://theconversation.com/the-concept ... -why-82775).

I have dealt with enough disturbed and drugged people to have a very strong suspicion that the three-letter acronyms found in the DSM IV are nothing more than an admission of the extreme vagueness of understanding by the psychiatry industry of the nature of human cognition, let alone how to help people.

However, at least psychiatry as an industry is less dogmatically sure than it has been in the past, and electroshock/ice pick lobotomy are no longer in common use.

What's more, the psychiatry industry was keen to drop the diagnostic pattern labelled NPD, and it almost didn't make it into the DSM V.

Other conditions are labelled "bipolar" and various anxiety disorders. I'm no clearer on those diagnoses than I am on narcissism, but certainly I have observed that highly traumatised people tend to live in their own world, and often default to confrontational and aggressive forms of social interaction.

The employment of "magical thinking" to explain worrying and difficult-to-grasp chains of causality and unstable or uncomfortable psycho-social states is endemic. I have to say that with the various traumatused people from the Grenfell tower disaster... a lot of people who were already on the edge, with some paranoid and internet-fuelled notions... were thrown wholesale over the edge into manic/stressed states, not knowing what to believe - and the truth is that plenty f***ed up psychology and toxic bureaucracy / politics is involved.

The amount of people in the contemporary era who invest themselves in various conspiracy theories involving... say... the jesuits, the illuminati, aliens, etc should really reveal how disempowered many people feel in the face of brutal globalised capitalism.

And the truth is that for most of the 20th century governments and industry *have* in many cases employed highly unethical, secretive, conspirarorial, deception-based and highly abusive methods of dealing with the public, including all sorts of clandestine and disinformation programs, and this side of politics has exploded in the era of the internet.

Many people no doubt feel like they are drowning rather than surfing. Often disinformation/manipulation campaigns are run with professional expertise in psychiatry - we are living in a new computer-networked era of psychological profiling and psychological warfare.

________

Absolutely various persecutory delusions have been observed, particularly in the case of stimulant overdose - and the way that I like to view that phenomenon is that the mind is looking for an explanation for an emotional/physiological state - cognition is associative in that way. When you're sad, you recall and process other sadness, when you're scared, you dwell on scary stuff.

This is of interest, and thankfully doesn't involve three-letter acronyms to label, typecast and shame people:
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How people rationalise their sensations is worryingly automatic, and just like being on a strong psychedelic drug such as LSD or ketamine... you can't just use willpower or reason to make it stop.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Pasta on Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:46 pm

We've been playing this game with FMOrangetree for a few years.Was hoping this thread wouldn't get bumped again.Seems like snide humour is the best tactic, to quiet this. FM obviously needs help. But, has also attacked loved ones of other FM's.

Orangetree, it is time to drop this on this forum. You are not finding a supportive audience. Seek help. Let us be. This is all in your head.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby 24K on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:32 pm

bishopdante wrote:Umm, no offense intended, but the various DSM labellings compared to the sophistication of a person's physiology / psyche are worryingly vague, and inappropriate to use outside a professional therapeutic setting (and likely not that helpful full stop). what today is called NPD used to be called megalomania.


This might be the case but at least it gives us a descriptive label to know what we are dealing with. If the label changes, so be it. But the behaviours associated with it are tantamount to our understanding. Without them all we're left with is "he said, she said" with no recourse to the the plethora of documented cases of said behaviour. A 'label' can be a godsend to victims of abhorrent psychological behaviour. "I'm not alone, this has happened to other people. There is a name for it."

Bi-polar used to be known as Manic Depression but the symptoms haven't changed, by giving it a name & understanding what it constitutes it can empower both the victims & those that care for them. Pattern Recognition.

No doubt you're on to something with the rest of your post but the victims of people acting out their neurosis's should always be the first to receive support. They never asked for it.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby 24K on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:40 pm

Pasta wrote:We've been playing this game with FMOrangetree for a few years.Was hoping this thread wouldn't get bumped again.Seems like snide humour is the best tactic, to quiet this. FM obviously needs help. But, has also attacked loved ones of other FM's.
.


The thread upset me, so I threw my 2c in. Do as you you do, and i'll do the same. No judgement. I would suggest if orangetree is attacking people & their loved ones they should be cut off immediately. But it isn't my call. I'll stop commenting because the whole thing is too close to the bone & I don't have a dog in this fight. Peace out.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Janeway on Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:58 am

you can always spot a feminist,


its the girl in the room not wearing a shirt that says "this is what a feminist looks like"

couldn't imagine Gloria steinham opening he rmouth in porn face to show guys what a feminist looks like


iehate when folks make excuses for bullshit behavior
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Raa on Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:23 am

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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby bishopdante on Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:33 pm

24K wrote:
bishopdante wrote:Umm, no offense intended, but the various DSM labellings compared to the sophistication of a person's physiology / psyche are worryingly vague, and inappropriate to use outside a professional therapeutic setting (and likely not that helpful full stop). what today is called NPD used to be called megalomania.


This might be the case but at least it gives us a descriptive label to know what we are dealing with. If the label changes, so be it. But the behaviours associated with it are tantamount to our understanding. Without them all we're left with is "he said, she said" with no recourse to the the plethora of documented cases of said behaviour. A 'label' can be a godsend to victims of abhorrent psychological behaviour. "I'm not alone, this has happened to other people. There is a name for it."


Sure... but even the textbook description of NPD doesn't (in my opinion) fit. There is a very toxic phenomenon going on where people are labelled as "incurable narcissists" by totally unqualified people, and that's actually a form of contemporary mass-delusion, and could be termed "mob gaslighting".

Certainly a pathological sense of entitlement and manipulative selfishness is a real phenomenon, particularly if combined with drugs such as cocaine or methamphetamine.

24K wrote:Bi-polar used to be known as Manic Depression but the symptoms haven't changed, by giving it a name & understanding what it constitutes it can empower both the victims & those that care for them. Pattern Recognition.


I'd be inclined to suspect that the presence of and substantial investment of energy and attention on lengthy persecutory constructions would suggest that a western psychiatrist would employ a diagnostic label closer to that.

I am not in any way a qualified psychiatrist, and I'm also not convinced about how scientific or accurate that discipline is. 50 years down the line we may well have some neuroscience and cognitive understanding of the incredibly complex system called the brain & body.

We need that science, because then we can actually set sensible parameters of social and developmental health, and many things that people do routinely today will be deemed as illegal as assault, especially in terms of how little kids are treated.

I do fear what is being created with the mass deprivation and extreme early childhood trauma that is being created with the various vicious modern warzones, ghettoes/shanty towns and refugee camps.

24K wrote:No doubt you're on to something with the rest of your post but the victims of people acting out their neuroses should always be the first to receive support. They never asked for it.


"Neurosis is a class of [mild] functional mental disorders involving chronic distress but neither delusions nor hallucinations. The term is no longer used by the professional psychiatric community in the United States, having been eliminated from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders in 1980 with the publication of DSM III."

However, the term "neuroticism" is still in use by the 'big five' school of psychological profilers who do stuff like election campaigns (famously employed during the trump campaign by Cambridge Analytica).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Fiv ... ity_traits
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism

______

Arguably the method of training people to observe in certain ways - to provide them with preconceptions - is one of the core methods of social dominance and can constitute abuse.

The terms "gaslighting" and "brainwashing" are extremely worrying... they are not just the domain of psychopaths/narcissists... they are practised by industries and governments... and it could be argued that many in the psychiatry industry and amateur or 'pop' psychiatry movement are guilty as *hell* of that.

Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief.

Also, terrifyingly, from the ultra-orwellian KGB school of disinformation:

"Disinformation isn’t designed to make you believe something false but convincing; it is designed to make you doubt everything true and demonstrable; to make the very existence of unimpeachable facts null and void."

Sure... we are all in the crossfire of toxic psychology and deception. It's present in families, it's present religion, it's in contemporary commercial culture, it's present in politics.

In fact, before the post-kant modern scientific movement, it could be argued that mystical insanity or socialised psychosis was the de-facto standard method of social control, and that society is still suffering from an appalling hangover, and also providing a volatile fuel for contemporary deception-based manipulation.

Do I think FM orangetree is dealing with facts and truths, and rigorous evidence? I would guess not, and think it is likely that these are persecutory fears.

However... is there an emotional reason for these feelings? No doubt.

Could be biochemical, could be drugs, could be PTSD, could be all sorts of stuff - and many many people with trauma have blocked out the direct memory of the incidents and/or relationship, and thus are left with a feeling but not a thought - but I would not doubt that FM orangetree is in a fight-or-flight-or-freeze state of chronic anxiety, and would encourage seeking calmness and good health, rather than stoking the bonfire of anxiety by building a hostile battle plan and profile of clandestine abuse against the world... habituation to a mental map of profound and complex hostility simply isn't good for a person, and will only make a person feel powerless and anxious.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile ... ution_bias

I'd recommend steering clear of stimulants, including caffeine, doing various sorts of physical exercise, and a rewarding/positive change of scene.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby bishopdante on Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:12 pm

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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby bishopdante on Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:40 am

On the subject of viral paranoia, which people can be psychologically infected with via the Internet, potentially turning their lives into a roundabout of delusional stress-states...

The "gang stalking" phenomenon is surreal, and very much like something out of a Philip K Dick story (NB: he was a methamphetamine user, and reported all sorts of pretty hardcore experiences: http://www.alternet.org/books/philip-k- ... ed-madness)

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!!

NB the comment stream is most extraordinary, and rather edifying.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Janeway on Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:03 am

^gang stalkers are loser nerds. like who cares. go ahead and wipe your nose im still able to get off into my 50shades of gray.why don't you guys stop watchin and get your own lives, ya loser nerd nose wipers standing around doing nothing at the library while alive people read a book.

is it's a conspiracy to come from a big family that never and a house with mice running through walls when they're supposed to not even be sorting, not even this mouse!



these secret society folks, there's just boys trying to be magical about "no girls allowed" clubs but they're just dungeon and dragonning along in her naked robe basements playing Star Wars it has their robes sabers like a lamer version of fight club. pass. go Christmas shopping with your wife and keep your eyes wide shut you chooch hoes and be better leaders and discuss world peace in your secret robes you you secret society nutsacks

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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby bishopdante on Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:48 pm

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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby first2letters on Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:25 pm

I'm amazed that this thread has been allowed to continue for 26 pages. It's become a zoo in which FM orangetree is trapped, circling and drooling around his/her rations while we all gaze and laugh and slap our hands against the glass. Unless this is the most elaborate indie-rock trolling ever conceived, in which case, bravo.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby bishopdante on Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:46 pm

I wouldn't encourage mocking chronic psychological distress... absolutely not.

But certainly I would encourage anybody suffering from delusions or illusory beliefs to learn to laugh at the farcical aspects of mistaken belief - or the corrosive and acutely-stressing effect on mental and physical wellbeing that is possie -, and to be sobered by the observation that *almost anybody* can be susceptible to the indoctronation methods employed by cults - something that is an ongoing area of psychological research - with researchers noting that you don't have to have a prior mental illness or vulnerability to be subject to the methods.

It has also been remarked that early 20th century psychiatry under the leadership of the notorious coke-head Freud worked very much like a cult rather than a science, and that psychiatry has been under a rigorous process of reform, research and integration with neuroscience over the past few decades - a process that is by no means complete.

"in 1960, every U.S. university-based department of psychiatry was headed by a psychoanalytically-oriented person. This orientation isolated psychiatry both from medicine and from the major illnesses in its own area. There was no evidence that psychotherapy influenced schizophrenia, severe depression, or manic-depressive disease. Rather psychiatry focused on the “worried well,” deliberately blurring the lines between the well and the unwell."

...

Jeffrey Lieberman, M.D., the chairman of psychiatry at Columbia University and a past president of the American Psychiatric Association. states that he has witnessed a sea change in psychiatry “as it matured from a psychoanalytic cult of shrinks into a scientific medicine of the brain.” Psychiatry has joined the mainstream of medicine, attracting first-rate candidates for training and the attention of researchers both in academia and industry.


NB: the current reliance on pharmaceutical drugs and understanding of the processes of cognition from a neuroscience basis are anything but complete, nor (unfortunately) is an objective or evidence-based diagnosis the method employed by most psychiatrists today. I think a good place to start would be measuring cortisol and resting heart rate, and also doing some basic blood analysis of insulin and vitamin levels. It seems negligent that this isn't standard practise.

Hence I would highly recommend researching how stress and adrenaline/cortisol plays a strong role in a lot of conditions, and *highly* recommend concentrating on basic wellbeing, and not stoking the fire of anxiety or trying to assemble a jigsaw puzzle patchwork of persecution and threat (as is exemplified by the Internet cult of "targeted individuals".

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Very important to eat properly, sleep properly, be engaged with positive and rewarding tasks. Feeling trapped and anxious/paranoid is not good.

In many ways (in my opinion) endocrinologists have a better understanding of the problems than psychiatrists.

But certainly being habituated to dwelling on threatening thoughts will create more stress, cyclically... and that's no joke... on a medical level.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Janeway on Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:31 pm

^repeat dj! we saw that guys videos already haha
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby bishopdante on Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:22 pm

Sure, however those are probably relevant to the OP's wellbeing, so excuse the re-post.
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Re: Questions Re: Indie Music & Secret Sado-Masochistic Sex

Postby Janeway on Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:57 pm

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