home studios equipment staff/friends booking/rates for sale forum contact

Little tech questions from your day

All your geeky questions about electronics, microphones, tape machines, etc.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Mason on Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:48 pm

Defragged before I recorded, nothing else open, no plug-ins whatsoever at the tracking stage. My computer's not great, but I've done fine with this one and even older/worse ones. It absolutely could be a buffer thing, since that affects recording, though I'm not inclined to suspect it here. The Regedit thing wouldn't have occurred to me—I'll work on that too.

I'm very excited to change so many variables at once that I ultimately won't be able to determine what caused the problem in the first place.

Alternatively I might just get my bandmate to install Reaper on his MacBook Air (and optimize any buffer settings there) and use that, since that would be marginally more powerful and has SSD storage.
Marsupialized wrote:'It's very important for men in bands together to French kiss, every day, even if they don't feel like it'
User avatar
Mason
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4922
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby numberthirty on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:07 pm

japmn wrote:
eliya wrote:My money is on the amps causing the spinning disk to skip. They might not move much air, but they transmit a lot of vibrations to the floor. Put your computer on something heavy and get it away from the amps, and I bet it'll go away.


Is this a joke or a real thing? I've been recording on spinning disc drives since the late 90's and I've never heard of any recording flaws happening because of mechanical vibrations caused by guitar amps, or even drums.


Actually, what Elyia is talking about is exactly what I was going to say. The Alesis had a HD24 error code that revolved around that very thing. Only saw it once(Max and Mike recording a really cranked head/4X12), but I've seen mention of bass amps doing it too.
154 wrote:Are you in Voivod or something?
User avatar
numberthirty
King Shit of Fuck Mountain
 
Posts: 19503
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:28 am

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Anthony Flack on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:37 pm

Increasing the buffer size is the first thing I'd try.

Really there's no reason why a laptop ought to be choking on its chips trying to write to the hard drive when it's got fucking gigabytes of RAM it could be chucking the data into temporarily while the HDD gets its chakras aligned. But I don't know exactly how the DAW goes about this.
Anthony Flack
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
 
Posts: 8625
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:27 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby eliya on Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:48 pm

I don't use Reaper, but other DAWs stop recording and give an error when they choke because the buffer is too low. Like #30 said, spinning drive dropping is a known issue with some hard disk recorders. It could also be that this particular drive is at the end of its life.

It always blows my mind when DAWs choke because of buffer. We have enough memory! What the shit?
User avatar
eliya
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7552
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby japmn on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:03 pm

Seems weird that a Laptop drive can work fine with the vibrations of you physically pounding on the keys but your bong rattling bass riffs are goofing it up. Turn down your Big Muffs guys. I'm not too surprised the H24 had issues because Alesis basically just builds boxes to store Error codes in. :lol:

Crank the Buffer, try an external drive. If that doesn't work buy some Tune Lube. Lube for your tunes.
User avatar
japmn
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7830
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Poutland

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby bishopdante on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:52 am

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "skip". You mean that there are bits of time missing from the audio (rather than sections of dropped-out silence)?

If there are time periods just missing, where it's like the computer was just paused, failing to write data, sounds to me like some awful windows-ness rather than a mechanical hardware problem. If you physically crash a drive head or trigger a motion sensor the hard drive / computer stops/fails completely, rather than writing data in a peculiar way.

I'd guess that some background process is stealing the ability to write data to the drive. Could possibly be due to drive fragmentation.

No idea what DAW you are using, but that should really throw up an error if the write-rate drops too low, seems suspiciously shady not to see an error and just get missing bits, although if it's some sort of peculiar CPU or thread interrupt rather than a storage bottleneck, then you may not see an error (ugly windows byzantine nightmare). Malware might be involved. Seems very fishy not to see an error code and just get bad files, but windows can be exactly that sort of fishy.

First port of call would be to try using something like waves tracks live and see if the problem goes away, or if you get error messages.
502 Bad Gateway · nginx/1.0.8
User avatar
bishopdante
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
Humankind's Greatest Musical Genius
 
Posts: 4258
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:25 am
Location: London

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Mason on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:59 am

It's what you described: time periods just missing. It fails to record for a few seconds and then resumes. I'm using Reaper, which is about as stable and lightweight as they get. The hard drive was defragmented very recently, and I found no background processes that might have weighed me down.

The more I think about it, we should really track with the MacBook Air next time (on something sturdy). All the birds with one stone, pretty much.
Marsupialized wrote:'It's very important for men in bands together to French kiss, every day, even if they don't feel like it'
User avatar
Mason
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4922
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby japmn on Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:20 pm

All flame wars aside, I've always used Windows Machines to record and have never really found them to be any less buggy than Macs. Windows machines do sometimes need to be set up (processes and registry changes occasionally) but if you build a machine for recording and only really ever use it for recording, they are rock solid. They problem you are having seems to be hardware related. Maybe you have a bad stick of RAM. Maybe your drive is going bad or has a slow write speed. It is very possible a process is taking resources and it is worth looking into slimming down what is active. But yeah, if the Air has a better processor, more RAM, why not give it a try. Reaper is free to download. Actually, does anyone know if my Reaper License is cross platform?
User avatar
japmn
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7830
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Poutland

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby endofanera on Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:23 am

japmn wrote:All flame wars aside, I've always used Windows Machines to record and have never really found them to be any less buggy than Macs. Windows machines do sometimes need to be set up (processes and registry changes occasionally) but if you build a machine for recording and only really ever use it for recording, they are rock solid.

+1
"You get a kink in your neck looking up at people or down at people. But when you look straight across, there's no kinks."
--Mike Watt
User avatar
endofanera
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4947
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby MrWarandieBoy on Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:13 am

I was having a bit of a similar issue with Reaper a while back, and fixed it by going into the preferences and ensuring the buffering and ASIO priorities were both at the highest settings. Check that you’ve got yours set as such?
MrWarandieBoy
johnny moss
johnny moss
 
Posts: 527
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:07 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Dudley on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:45 am

Is it possible to notch a pot?
Anthony Flack wrote:At the end of the day it's everybody's appreciation of cement that is the winner.
User avatar
Dudley
World's Ideal Leader w/ VersatileTalents
World's Ideal Leader w/ VersatileTalents
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: London

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby ldopa_chicago on Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:02 am

Dudley wrote:Is it possible to notch a pot?

Like...to add a detent?
jimmy two hands wrote:Jam econo for fuck's sake.

I play guitar and act tougher than I am in Fake Limbs.
I played bass in Burn Permits.
User avatar
ldopa_chicago
Leader with Extraordinary Personality
Leader with Extraordinary Personality
 
Posts: 2811
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:34 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby eliya on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:02 pm

I need a recommendation for a 2.1mm DC jack that isn't shitty. I got a Switchcraft one thinking it'll be decent, but instead the plug sits really loosely in the jack and I got 60Hz hum unless I push the plug to the side.
User avatar
eliya
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7552
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:37 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Dudley on Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:30 pm

ldopa_chicago wrote:
Dudley wrote:Is it possible to notch a pot?

Like...to add a detent?


Is it possible to modify a (or get a modifiable) pot so that I can easily find, say, "7.5" on my guitar volume knob, but still be able to access 0-10? Does that count as a partial detent or something?
Anthony Flack wrote:At the end of the day it's everybody's appreciation of cement that is the winner.
User avatar
Dudley
World's Ideal Leader w/ VersatileTalents
World's Ideal Leader w/ VersatileTalents
 
Posts: 3848
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: London

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby bassdriver on Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:00 pm

Dudley wrote:
ldopa_chicago wrote:
Dudley wrote:Is it possible to notch a pot?

Like...to add a detent?


Is it possible to modify a (or get a modifiable) pot so that I can easily find, say, "7.5" on my guitar volume knob, but still be able to access 0-10? Does that count as a partial detent or something?


center detent should be easy to find

https://www.mouser.ch/Passive-Component ... ?P=1yieeif

a pot with a raster migth get expensive and harder to find.
ImDADA wrote: Die Richtung ist die Chefetage.
User avatar
bassdriver
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
Eternal Bosom of Hot Love
 
Posts: 3310
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:26 pm
Location: Switzerland

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Anthony Flack on Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:13 pm

japmn wrote:does anyone know if my Reaper License is cross platform?


It sure is, and you can install it on multiple machines.
Anthony Flack
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
 
Posts: 8625
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:27 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Mason on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:17 pm

So two things:
- I did a factory reset on this interface shortly before this recording session, in trying to alleviate an unrelated problem.
- Your buffer size can be determined by your interface, it turns out, even when it's supposed to be taking cues from your DAW for everything.

I eventually found that thing buried in the interface's "driver settings," rather than anywhere you'd adjust anything real, like the sample rate. And it's unaffected by any of the "match ASIO/project" boxes you check that control the other parameters.

I had left Reaper with its default buffer of 1200 samples, because that's never been less than perfect for my purposes. It was always set that way and it's still set that way.

My interface was rocking a buffer of 48 samples.

Okay.
Marsupialized wrote:'It's very important for men in bands together to French kiss, every day, even if they don't feel like it'
User avatar
Mason
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4922
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Nate Dort on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:25 pm

Mason wrote:My interface was rocking a buffer of 48 samples.


Image
User avatar
Nate Dort
Leader with Extraordinary Personality
Leader with Extraordinary Personality
 
Posts: 2816
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:15 pm
Location: Detroit

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby Mason on Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:49 am

You know, though, the fact that there were no telltale glitches in the audio, like the choppy jittery kind, is kind of insanely admirable. Good job, Reaper.

I need to build more foundational knowledge on this kind of thing. I've been reading through the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Manual and the López-Alt Food Lab book—I need to find the equivalent of those for digital recording (and am accepting recommendations).
Marsupialized wrote:'It's very important for men in bands together to French kiss, every day, even if they don't feel like it'
User avatar
Mason
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4922
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: Little tech questions from your day

Postby japmn on Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:14 pm

Good detective work Mason. Glad it's working for ya now. Seeing your 312b sitting there in that picture made me dig out my 308B. I'm doing top and bottom snare, inside and outside kick, both toms, a Mono overhead, and the Bass through it now instead of my Allen Heath 2200. It is MUCH beefier sounding and actually isn't any more noisy than the AH. The AH sounds a little less dynamic than the Tascam. I'm diggin it. I'ts really making me wish I never got rid of my 320B.
User avatar
japmn
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
Power Incarnate with Endless Creativity
 
Posts: 7830
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:38 am
Location: Poutland

PreviousNext

Return to Tech Room

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], weezy and 5 guests