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The Woodworking Thread

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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby elisha wiesner on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:13 am

twelvepoint wrote:Elisha, I'm interested why you don't use jigs. Are you able to do a primary and microbevel by hand and consistently get it within a degree or two?


I've tried to use jigs but I just seem to get a better edge without them and it's quicker for me. I also don't do a microbevel. Just one razor sharp edge. This doesn't mean that jigs aren't good, just that I prefer to do it by hand. My Dad taught me how to sharpen knives and chisels when I was a kid and I've just been doing it this way forever and after years of full time carpentry and keeping things sharp, I guess I'm just stuck in my routine.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby endofanera on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:14 am

eliya wrote:Really beautiful work, Elisha. Goodness!

For serious! I love these guitars.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby twelvepoint on Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:34 am

elisha wiesner wrote:
twelvepoint wrote:Elisha, I'm interested why you don't use jigs. Are you able to do a primary and microbevel by hand and consistently get it within a degree or two?


I've tried to use jigs but I just seem to get a better edge without them and it's quicker for me. I also don't do a microbevel. Just one razor sharp edge. This doesn't mean that jigs aren't good, just that I prefer to do it by hand. My Dad taught me how to sharpen knives and chisels when I was a kid and I've just been doing it this way forever and after years of full time carpentry and keeping things sharp, I guess I'm just stuck in my routine.


Thanks! Maybe I'll try hand sharpening a single little plane or something and see how it goes. I still definitely need to get an india stone at some point though.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby elisha wiesner on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:07 am

twelvepoint wrote:
elisha wiesner wrote:
twelvepoint wrote:Elisha, I'm interested why you don't use jigs. Are you able to do a primary and microbevel by hand and consistently get it within a degree or two?


I've tried to use jigs but I just seem to get a better edge without them and it's quicker for me. I also don't do a microbevel. Just one razor sharp edge. This doesn't mean that jigs aren't good, just that I prefer to do it by hand. My Dad taught me how to sharpen knives and chisels when I was a kid and I've just been doing it this way forever and after years of full time carpentry and keeping things sharp, I guess I'm just stuck in my routine.


Thanks! Maybe I'll try hand sharpening a single little plane or something and see how it goes. I still definitely need to get an india stone at some point though.


Good stones are obviously important but practice and technique are really what do it in my opinion. I've never seen my Dad sharpen on anything other than one of those generic two sided oil stones or maybe a piece of sandpaper on a jobsite and his tools and knives are always nice and sharp.

You may want to look into a Japanese water stone. The cheap two sided ones do a nice job but wear out fairly quickly and you need to lap them frequently. The luthier that taught me guitar building is all Japanese waterstones and his shit is insanely sharp!

Last thing. It's much easier to maintain a sharp edge if you don't let it get super dull. I'll regularly hit the 8000 side of the stone for 10-15 seconds during the day with a chisel I'm using. If I let it get dull, I have to start at a lower grit and work my way back up and it's way more time consuming.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby twelvepoint on Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:02 am

Thanks again!

Oops I mean Arkansas stone, not India. I have some water stones that are 200/800/4000 and I think I should have one more stone that's even smoother (maybe?). the fine arkansas stones are nice (I have a pocket one) but are pricey for an 8x2" bench size, so I want to choose wisely.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby Nico Adie on Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:25 am

Completely forgot to mention that I also use a Welsh slate stone as a final hone before stropping! The eBay seller reckoned it to be equivalent to 8000-12000 grit.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby gnangle on Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:22 pm

the tighter the grain of the metal is the better of an edge youll get. also elishas point about periodically resharpening is very good advice.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby elisha wiesner on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:33 am

i just finished up this little 3/4 size guitar. I'm really happy with it.

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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby endofanera on Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:04 pm

elisha wiesner wrote:i just finished up this little 3/4 size guitar. I'm really happy with it.

Once again, so great! Salut!
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby steve on Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:53 am

elisha wiesner wrote:i just finished up this little 3/4 size guitar. I'm really happy with it.

Image

God damn you are making some pretty guitars.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby elisha wiesner on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:14 am

steve wrote:God damn you are making some pretty guitars.


Thanks Steve.

I think they are looking really good but more importantly, I'm really happy with how they are sounding.


I'm currently making one with Rosewood back and sides and a Redwood top. Here's a couple pics in progress. I'm loving the Redwood.

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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby steve on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:27 am

That redwood with the concentric-line rosette looks amazing. I have such a hard-on for that top it's ridiculous.

The back looks pretty and I know people do it all the time but I'm always freaked out when I see the heartwood/sapwood pieces bookmatched. The sapwood and heartwood have such radically different expansion characteristics I'd be freaked out about it. Is there any common lore about this among luthiers I don't know about?
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby elisha wiesner on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:54 am

steve wrote:That redwood with the concentric-line rosette looks amazing. I have such a hard-on for that top it's ridiculous.

The back looks pretty and I know people do it all the time but I'm always freaked out when I see the heartwood/sapwood pieces bookmatched. The sapwood and heartwood have such radically different expansion characteristics I'd be freaked out about it. Is there any common lore about this among luthiers I don't know about?



Yeah, the Redwood is insane. I bought it from a guitar builder in California who mills his own wood. This is reclaimed stuff that He milled in '08. It's totally beautiful and super stiff. I bought enough to make 3 guitars and should probably get more if he'll sell it to me.

As for he heartwood/sapwood, I've worried about the same thing but it seems to be done all the time and has been for years. I checked with my friend who taught me guitar building and is a true master of the craft and he said that he''e been doing it going back to the 80's without issue. This picture is a little misleading as there is actually a wedge of Anigre in between the Rosewood - the Spruce reinforcement strips are covering the joints - so while there is sapwood, there isn't a whole lot of it. I'm building this guitar for myself. I've wanted to try Redwood and also try this three piece back idea but don't want to do it for a customer until I know how it works and holds up. If it sucks, I won't do it again. I'm building Kevin Burkett an almost identical guitar but with a Spruce top and two piece Rosewood back with no sapwood.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby uglysound on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:26 pm

Gorgeous work Elisha!
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby TylerSavage on Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:50 pm

That rosette is mental, and you got some excellent wood - great work, inspiring!

We don’t seem to have issues in a finished guitar with sapwood, I don’t REALLY know so I’m going to ask about that.
I do believe it’s more of a risk when you’re bending sides, getting cracks. Probably buffing as well that puts a lot of heat into the wood. Among other reasons we call Cocobola “crackabola”

edit: from one of the luthiers I work with "I've never seen any seperation between the sap/heartwoods. "
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby elisha wiesner on Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:36 am

TylerSavage wrote:That rosette is mental, and you got some excellent wood - great work, inspiring!

We don’t seem to have issues in a finished guitar with sapwood, I don’t REALLY know so I’m going to ask about that.
I do believe it’s more of a risk when you’re bending sides, getting cracks. Probably buffing as well that puts a lot of heat into the wood. Among other reasons we call Cocobola “crackabola”

edit: from one of the luthiers I work with "I've never seen any seperation between the sap/heartwoods. "



I think you guys are about as good as it gets as far as sourcing/handling guitar wood and the fact that you have been using sapwood for 30+ years now was one of the reasons I decided to go with it.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby TylerSavage on Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:25 am

elisha wiesner wrote:
TylerSavage wrote:That rosette is mental, and you got some excellent wood - great work, inspiring!

We don’t seem to have issues in a finished guitar with sapwood, I don’t REALLY know so I’m going to ask about that.
I do believe it’s more of a risk when you’re bending sides, getting cracks. Probably buffing as well that puts a lot of heat into the wood. Among other reasons we call Cocobola “crackabola”

edit: from one of the luthiers I work with "I've never seen any seperation between the sap/heartwoods. "



I think you guys are about as good as it gets as far as sourcing/handling guitar wood and the fact that you have been using sapwood for 30+ years now was one of the reasons I decided to go with it.


That's great to hear - the wood supply and pre-machining here is super super important and there's a lot of effort in that area h- Bob Taylor is obsessed with wood. Lately we built a research kiln that logs/e-mails me temp/pressure every hour to do some longterm analysis.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby steve on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:12 pm

TylerSavage wrote:That's great to hear - the wood supply and pre-machining here is super super important and there's a lot of effort in that area h- Bob Taylor is obsessed with wood. Lately we built a research kiln that logs/e-mails me temp/pressure every hour to do some longterm analysis.

I am super into this kind of geek data collecting. Just love knowing somebody's doing it.
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby ldopa_chicago on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:18 pm

steve wrote:
TylerSavage wrote:That's great to hear - the wood supply and pre-machining here is super super important and there's a lot of effort in that area h- Bob Taylor is obsessed with wood. Lately we built a research kiln that logs/e-mails me temp/pressure every hour to do some longterm analysis.

I am super into this kind of geek data collecting. Just love knowing somebody's doing it.

Indeed. So are there like multiple hygrometers for measuring moisture gradients over the course of a drying cycle (for a given geometry and species) or something?

Also, this question for TylerSavage, I was gifted Taylor's memoir by a relative a few Christmases ago and have neither read it nor disposed of it. Do you happen to know if it's any good?
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Re: The Woodworking Thread

Postby elisha wiesner on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:53 pm

steve wrote:
TylerSavage wrote:That's great to hear - the wood supply and pre-machining here is super super important and there's a lot of effort in that area h- Bob Taylor is obsessed with wood. Lately we built a research kiln that logs/e-mails me temp/pressure every hour to do some longterm analysis.



I am super into this kind of geek data collecting. Just love knowing somebody's doing it.


Me too. Totally great!
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