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Belief: Feminism

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Feminism?

Crap
33
17%
Not Crap
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Total votes : 198

Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby rayword45 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:11 am

I'm not even gonna bother going through this thread. As one of the few minorities on this website, but still a cis straight male, Tina Fey-esque white feminists and TERFs annoy the fuck out of me and I wish they'd stop existing (love Fey as an apolitical comedy writer though). Of course I love my intersectional feminist friends, especially my LGBTQ+ friends (who struggle harder than ANYONE else I know), and for them I'd vote NOT CRAP in a heartbeat.

But fuck any non-intersectional people at this time. As an Asian, we get a lot of non-intersectional feminists (or worse, Asian women who CLAIM they're intersectional but feel like they have the right to shit on Asian and Black men incessantly despite having certain privileges the aforementioned two lack) in our community. In fact I see more of them than I see whatever the Asian equivalent of hoteps are, since these same Asian feminists LOVE to suck up to white people.

College got me jaded, I suppose. Still, a very easy NOT CRAP, but, and I know this is ignorant, I'm starting to wonder if I'm just averse to straight white and Asian feminists, because goddamn they make the movement look bad IMO more than any real "SJW" type, at least those trans and non-binary people are usually fucking sincere and not white-worshipping
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby Facundo on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:19 am

Basis of modern societies comes from matriarchy. Things start to go wrong and wrong continues for centuries when the man thinks he is the he who is directing. Then happens a war and after that war and almost all women remain alive enjoying the miseries in many forms of hunger, trauma, church, loneliness, lie, puppettry.

Now we have to look at the ranks of men who do not go to war. There are winners, disabled (if there is no Hitlr or Stalin to make them eugenic's fault, hunger to quench them or both), pacifists and aristocrats. The paradoxes of the last world war, or the civil war in my country, is that they are not really genocides but idea-cidies, in a Darwinian scenario the survival in men and women is intimately linked to privacy and to avoid talking about politics or fix the world every time you get drunk. Now to religion and politics are added science and economics as factors of evolutionary discrimination (if you are out of the market, if you question in public that formulas that formulate dogmas with a single eye of the bipolar scientist... you can get poor and regret a diagnose). Look how the aristocrats buy the winners to be the new winners in any of the possibilities and make the old winners be a low-stakes aristocracy. Look how aristocrats see pacifists: they can't start a war, they never won a war.

All strategists know that if you want a final 50/50, you have to fight for the 100/0, the feminists go for the 76,666 / 33,333 and that is the experiment of the last decimal place. In the best case they'll get a 40/60 from every starting point. Winner mom (80/20) has now a phosphor bronze, pacifist pussy (1/3) has now a phosphor bronze, Amanda Palmer has now a phosphor bronze. Meanwhile genderless Aristocrats (1.000.000/0,0000001) still have the same and they don't need less.

D'Addario, JHS or John Pearse, feel classy to shop strings, but you can buy only phosphor bronzes starting up to 0.12 first, because all the chord players voted that options. I really like starting at 0.13 or 14, I feel fucking sad about metals playing first two with 0.9 in te 12string. Maybe I'm disabled to fight in that war and need thead the string to its own at the level, of my wrists to avoid the recipes of healing for the disabled or pacifists that has been thinking the new Joseph Hitleiner... while I remember the horrible looks of feminist women to my oversized belly and I ask the unanswered question... why did not you talk to me?






and maybe I wake up in that unknown island with a stain steel ukelele, cause four strings were left without a wrist, but in that island there are only ladies of any possible skin and color, skinny and fat, beautiful and beautiful, all nude with undyed hair dancing on the beach where I know that I am their slave on a spiritual level that is always pleasant






and I could lift the wristband so that the parrot could prepare me a cocoloco to be served with that "twanks swirl" jingle and I'd have to have a similing artifact...






but can't do anything any that letting be done by the island making me love






and i have to pay in slack-key ukelele songs or love.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby dontfeartheringo on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:10 pm

Misogyny is the mind-set that polices and enforces these goals; it’s the “law enforcement branch” of the patriarchy.


Y'all should read this article.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017 ... ll-cruelty
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby Wood Goblin on Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:50 pm

All persons are entitled to autonomy, safety, respect, and opportunity, and feminism exists because women have been denied those basic rights. Feminism is not crap, with zero waffles.

I re-read the first few pages of this thread and had to stop. Even enlightened people couldn’t stop themselves from making jokes about sexual assault. But those pages do illustrate a common, subtle sickness, which is that it takes about five seconds for someone to bring up Andrea Dworkin. (I know I’ve been guilty of this.) For some reason, Dworkin is used to undermine feminism in a way that, say, Jordan Peterson is never used to undermine psychology.

I used to disagree with feminist critiques of art and entertainment but have since changed my mind, at least somewhat. Ever since the Bechdel Test came to my attention, there are certain things I can’t NOT notice in movies, TV, et cetera. We will notice if a 1960 Ford Fairline in a movie is painted in a color that didn’t become available until 1961 but neglect to notice that male characters outnumber female characters 3:1, and that none of those female characters have female friends. This isn’t a political flaw; it’s an artistic flaw.

Or we’ll criticize an author for his “poor female characters,” as if female characters aren’t just characters. I mean, poor female characters = poor characters.

So feminism is not crap.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby rayword45 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:08 pm

I find hatred of so-called "radical feminism" amusing. What the right calls "modern feminism" (basically the stereotypical tumblr image) is not even close to being one of the worse movements under feminism, I'd argue it's amongst the most important and has had the most tangible success in effecting change (bathroom bills, for one).
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby jimmy two hands on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:12 pm

rayword45 wrote:I find hatred of so-called "radical feminism" amusing.


I hate trans-exclusive radical feminism, though we could argue semantics of whether it's feminist to be trans-exclusive. Anyway, fuck a bunch of TERFs.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby Gramsci on Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:30 pm

Christ, after the endless shitstorm earlier in this thread here we are again... Dudes thinking they need to validate a conversation about feminism.

Fellow chaps, listen to feminists, your opinion isn't really needed. Who knows, you might learn something...
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby rayword45 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:31 pm

Yeah and I do, but I don't listen to the TERFs or spoiled non-intersectional White feminists that I know. Is that problematic? Because if it is, I'm gonna need a reason to care.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby rayword45 on Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:36 pm

jimmy two hands wrote:
rayword45 wrote:I find hatred of so-called "radical feminism" amusing.


I hate trans-exclusive radical feminism, though we could argue semantics of whether it's feminist to be trans-exclusive. Anyway, fuck a bunch of TERFs.


As do I, but I was referring to the most commonly stereotyped image of feminist, the shit the alt-right incels and shitholes like r/tumblrinaction like to strawman. I'd argue in recent times they're the most necessary (TERFs are never necessary) and the biggest arbiters of change.

The Tina Fey "I'm not racist, I'm a feminist! But white women have it hardest" brand of feminism can go rightly fuck itself, and I know too many of them IRL, so until someone points out why I should do otherwise I'm sticking by that statement
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby biscuitdough on Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:24 pm

I think a lot of the time, Dworkin was saying extreme stuff in the way that, say, someone who had a traumatic religious upbringing might talk about religious people without seriously proposing a war on them. Also what Gramsci said.

Unrelated:

I had a weird stranger start asking questions about a small, non-attention-grabbing tattoo in a convenience store. As I checked out, I chuckled over the absurdity of someone forcing a conversation on an unwilling stranger, and he said "there, see, I put a smile on your face", tripling the creep factor. Like, I'm here as a target for you to force the reaction you want from? And socially it wouldn't have been weird if I was a woman, because they're not supposed to have autonomy. When I told my girlfriend about it she said she gets that every day.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby Facundo on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:07 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:I re-read the first few pages of this thread and had to stop. Even enlightened people couldn’t stop themselves from making jokes about sexual assault. But those pages do illustrate a common, subtle sickness, which is that it takes about five seconds for someone to bring up Andrea Dworkin. (I know I’ve been guilty of this.) For some reason, Dworkin is used to undermine feminism in a way that, say, Jordan Peterson is never used to undermine psychology.


The error of feminism is to propose itself as a combative ideology and to wage war. Feminism will not achieve a war the equity that wars have taken away, because as I say, women are the burned trees that burst after the fire and somehow the land that suffers the destruction and decay of the soldiers is a woman , sometimes his girlfriend and always his mom. Wombs are the words and where the word work comes from (look at the ancient greek, work is what a woman giving birth, to lamb, to whelp, suffering the life for new life). This error is by design: is not Feminism is an androcentric word? all the -sims came from greek -ισμός (ismós) male like chirst (Χριστός), means "he who anoints himself with wisdom". return the catechism to the mother superior, we the men have between in our ranks the good and the bad, are they real? dunno but we all live and die between two women, the earth and the moon, and our first home was a mom

wisdom, the woman she was shut up from very young age, with the hierarchy of the home recently blown, pregnant with advertising that insulted her and later fascinated by fashion and complexes, imaginary sons and daughters came out, filias and phobias in the same single product she already has but also wants. she is about to be able to talk, lexicon and subjectivity in front of the tide of facts that suffered and she came from. It requires my pair of ears, time and understanding until some parts with some stories i cannot understand. for sure i can not and forever i won't

we all have fears to hear from the other sad stories or embarrasing intimacies, that secret things inside the wrapper are the traumas that the mass culture makes taboos, glamorous taboos about which drunk people build their fantasies and make movies without camera, books without words or music without sound. taboos after delirium are the invasive species making blind that landscape in which we look for mirrors to know who we are but we are not, that traumas are the same bacteria rotting the water you are. Ears disappear when understanding has concluded bringing the love and naturalness with which the examples of one doll and another can only agree for what they decide, never without giving up and conceding, but knowing how to demand and say no. And all that silly two in love is a big NO to the liars tell them who they are and what are the rules of protocol. If the taboo has became a delirium supported by television and trade you'll better be waiting than trying to hear, you have to know how to get back before that trauma hurted, or wait for he/she to come back

the success of feminism depends on mutual support for vulnerable women and potentially vulnerable women, starting with girls without... family, home, income, culture, health and mental health, including prostitutes by right and prostitutes for merchandise (slaves, the why does not matter if you want to help, class complex and distinction of any kind, including being unable to understand a doctrine has to be pushed out because this shouldn't be a doctrine, human logic, not dogmatic beliefs). It seems a lie, but the cradle of millennial machismo does not came from tradition: penises hitting porn actresses in 4k or VR, while -put the acttres name here- shows that face of joy an erected man can has no doubt or other feel she is enjoying. The fact that the child can play the prostitute ladies for a small amount is resulting into scary statistics about the generations that are arriving, regression to times statistics did not existed (oh, global warming, it rains). Keep calm and change that number of the numbermen becoming criminals and doint it wrong with girfriend... air your friendly tits of the Femen brand again... manifest yourself at the jail door the day you touch them and paint a winged penis in the family, taxi, uber or cabify to take them there, this is punk, is not it?

You win this war knowing who you are and knowing how to express yourself. You can teach from the example but you should not be imperative, make judgments or tell people who are they and what they have to. We, people show ourselves when we perceive a heart and an attentive silence accompanying hearbeats, it's to go back from the labyrinth from the trauma and let them tell you or you to tell them what it is, then vice versa, your turn to let go and you have nothing prepared, you (me) dirty monkey
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby Boombats on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:23 pm

I kind of like the insane shit that Dworkin said
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby Facundo on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:49 pm

^ read paragraphs that say the same, the same

world is a pizza, well, almost round but it's not flat. First is the mass, almost the most important. The tomato sauce over which the cheese surfs and on top of the other things and bits of oregano, being a mushroom chunk is still the best thing that happened to you, there will be someone who hates you and who loves you, even having a transparent taste, even having a gray color that it's as close to black as white. likes and dislikes are the same in this pizzabook. The question to continue, the tomorrow mushrooms that someone makes pieces of mushroom, show your taste, is so creamy that only tastes gray. How many grayscale foods do you know? You are lucky to know me, I am lucky to eat you.

the cows replaced the buffalos, these animals have beautiful eyes, they are not teaching the pigs that they should not batter in the quagmire, they are always dreaming while we steal milk, they eat the grass and look at the landscape. they sometimes eat mushrooms, why that mushroom chunk is feeling so significant? he thinks he's paper and ink at the same time. A spore that you can not see in a photo, that only needs fertilizer and water, if the cow shits and pisses, he can become himself and turn that smell into a taste of nothing? we can die up to five generations that generate their own history and technology, the mushrooms will only change size, they celebrate each end of human world with big smoke mushrooms which make spectacular representations of what is god to them (their big own aesthetical data owning the air with particles and fucking everything around)




PS: yeah, the cockroaches will survive; yes, but look at the mushrooms
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby J. Burns on Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:53 pm

Feminism is cool. This thread is dog shit.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby Facundo on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:03 pm

everynight i look inside to find for the self that tells stories, but I do not fall asleep, they are not useful for sleep and paradoxically are boring. Bill Gates dad had his sons sleep with economic newspapers, now he has economic newspapers, he invented windows cause it was the only way out of that storytelling with his father cutting the way to the door, i hope you to know the way out and go free, or maybe the vertical on scroll
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby JohnnyDoglands on Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:15 pm

Gramsci wrote:Christ, after the endless shitstorm earlier in this thread here we are again... Dudes thinking they need to validate a conversation about feminism.

Fellow chaps, listen to feminists, your opinion isn't really needed. Who knows, you might learn something...


I tend to call myself an ally these days. If some women feel unconfortable even with the word 'Feminism', then feminism needs all the allies it can get.

We 'dudes' however, do need to have a conversation, an inclusive one, on how we can make the world less shitty for women. We are the ones doing it, consciusly or uncounsciously. I myself am far from perfect, but until someone points something out, I might not even notice. I'm just a stupid man with a second, much smaller brain in his pants that mostly needs to be ignored. I will shut up and listen sometimes, but it's a better learning experience if we are all involved in the conversation.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby brephophagist on Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:23 pm

JohnnyDoglands wrote:We 'dudes' however, do need to have a conversation, an inclusive one, on how we can make the world less shitty for women. We are the ones doing it, consciusly or uncounsciously.

Just a suggestion for a way to begin to have a conversation, even if it's one-sided: At a recent meetup, the speakers mentioned Project Implicit, a tool for discovering your own bias. Knowledge is power, right? Understanding the nature and extent of our own bias helps us self-correct, and because of the way bias works, an external perspective is almost essential.

footnote: I'm male. When people ask if I'm a musician, my typical line is "I can make some pleasing sounds, but I'm not comfortable calling myself a musician in a world where people practice for years to be able to flawlessly perform a Rachmaninoff concerto". I feel similarly about calling myself a feminist. The belief is about as far from crap as one can get, but I think the label implies some sort of achievement or finality that I'm not comfortable ascribing to myself.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby JohnnyDoglands on Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:44 am

brephophagist wrote:
JohnnyDoglands wrote:We 'dudes' however, do need to have a conversation, an inclusive one, on how we can make the world less shitty for women. We are the ones doing it, consciusly or uncounsciously.

Just a suggestion for a way to begin to have a conversation, even if it's one-sided: At a recent meetup, the speakers mentioned Project Implicit, a tool for discovering your own bias. Knowledge is power, right? Understanding the nature and extent of our own bias helps us self-correct, and because of the way bias works, an external perspective is almost essential.


I tried it...I hate putting people into boxes. I recognise that I probably still have some unconscious biases, but after ten minutes of red X's and the damn thing refusing to work for me (unless I conform to the biases it wants to get out of me), I just had to move on to something else. I'm calling it a biased test, but I may just have been in an impatient mood.

brephophagist wrote:footnote: I'm male. When people ask if I'm a musician, my typical line is "I can make some pleasing sounds, but I'm not comfortable calling myself a musician in a world where people practice for years to be able to flawlessly perform a Rachmaninoff concerto". I feel similarly about calling myself a feminist. The belief is about as far from crap as one can get, but I think the label implies some sort of achievement or finality that I'm not comfortable ascribing to myself.


Let's say you learn that concerto, and play it flawlessly in your bedroom, to no-one. Ever. Would you call yourself a musician then?

When I started looking for other musicians to play with as a teenager, it was then that I realised I must be one too.

I hate to put words into your mouth, but what you seem* to be hinting at is something I get a lot, and did 50 pages ago when I referred to myself as a feminist. It's the old 'What have you done for Feminism lately?'/'How have you earned your stripes?' arguement. I doubt anyone would even bother to ask those questions of a feminist woman, but as a man I get that attitude all the time. (It's almost as if that person is unaware that male allies and male feminists have been in existance since the days of the suffragettes.)

I'm known as a bit of an atheist too, but apart from telling people I don't believe in god, and why, no-one asks me what I have done for atheism lately. No one ever says you can't be an Atheist, you haven't burnt down any churches yet.

A few people upthread mentioned trans-exclusionism and my view is this....If you refuse to call a transwoman a woman then I refuse to think anything other than 'this person is transphobic, biased and bigoted'.

*If you aren't, then apologies in advance. Sorrryyyyy
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby brephophagist on Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:11 pm

I think your asterisk applies. It's cool though, internet communication sucks.

My hesitance to label has little to do with having the bona fides in any person's estimation. It's a recognition that, in feminism's case, the journey will never be over for me. I get that the concerto example was a bad one to bring up to illustrate that, because it does reference a specific goal. To me, that goal is distant enough that it seems unattainable.
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Re: Belief: Feminism

Postby JohnnyDoglands on Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:19 pm

No that's fine. I agree that I also, have no idea really what it is like to experience life as a woman. (I have been called 'Not a real man' before, but that's a side issue).

That shouldn't and doesn't stop me from knowing a shitty situation when I see one. Or from calling out sexist bullshit when I hear it. I don't need a medal for acting with basic human decency, but it seems like an area far more men are lacking than I would expect.

What's your opinion of the tests on the link you posted, brephophagist?
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