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Either/Or: 70s Brit Punk or 80s US Hardcore

Vote and debate.

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One is more important, which?

UK
46
50%
USA
46
50%
 
Total votes : 92

Postby Edd Tastyhead on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:28 am

I really hate Sham 69 with a passion. Bunch of posin' pricks. I love the DKs however.



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Postby itchy mcgoo on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:30 am

Skronk wrote:I was thinking of Sham 69 and wrote the Dead Boys.


That is a better comparison than the Soft Boys.

For Sham 69 vs. DK, I vote "farty".
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Postby Minotaur029 on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:36 am

Chapter Two wrote:Without a trace of doubt in my mind, US hardcore wins this hands down.

The best that the best british punk bands had to offer was a furious live experience. They all still became crap on their major label deals or otherwise just wrote crap after crap to feed to their green and black spiked piss-soaked 'fans'. British punk was probably something awesome for about ten minutes in 1976.

US hardcore was the first time that bands decided to really be what they were saying they should be. Independent. Putting on their own gigs, releasing their own records, making networks. And being truly fucking ferocious. And then when ferocity became expected, doing something unexpected.

Etcetera.

The reason it was called hardcore punk is all the answer you need.


Fuck. I was gonna vote for the Brit-Punk, but now I am going to have to abstain from this vote.

Shit. Goddammit...never mind, I'll make a choice.

While I generally prefer American music, based solely on the merits of the music, I prefer Brit-punk. A tough vote, but there you have it.
Last edited by Minotaur029 on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby charliedon'tsurf on Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:36 am

I gotta go with the US hardcore scene that blossumed after the UK punk explosion of the 70's. Hell just the LA scene from 77-84 eclipses the entire catalog of music created in England. Another nice thing about it is that the American hardcore scene was not exploited in the media and in the public eye. Then again I have always had distaste for the UK music press.

Those musical pioneers in N. America created the infrastructure we still rely on today outside the icky world of the corporate music scene.
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Postby Mark Hansen on Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:39 pm

Skronk wrote:
itchy mcgoo wrote:
Skronk wrote:Dead Boys vs. Dead Kennedys: US


These are both US. Maybe Soft Boys vs. DK




Oops, my mistake. I was thinking of Sham 69 and wrote the Dead Boys.


I like Sham 69. Borstal Breakout and Hersham Boys are great songs. I'd probably pick them over the Dead Kennedys.

I love the Soft Boys as well, but I wouldn't call them a punk band at all. Unless there's some older material I haven't heard.

Throbbing Gristle wins over Suicide because they are still making great music. I think TG may be the one band who I've listened to more than anyone else. Certainly within the Industrial music genre. I never get tired of them.
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Postby Mark Hansen on Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:40 pm

itchy mcgoo wrote:
Skronk wrote:I was thinking of Sham 69 and wrote the Dead Boys.


That is a better comparison than the Soft Boys.

For Sham 69 vs. DK, I vote "farty".


You sure you didn't mean "sharty"? :)
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Postby itchy mcgoo on Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:38 pm

Mark Hansen wrote:You sure you didn't mean "sharty"? :)


Well, neither are really worth much of a poop to me and both blew a lot of hot air, so I'm sticking with "farty".

Not denying there aren't some okay Sham songs... "Tell Us the Truth" and the ones you mentioned, sure. But not a band I want to listen to or talk about much. There are elements there that remind of the things I don't like in US hardcore. Admittedly still have some records, tho. But farty, all the same.
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Postby SecondEdition on Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:49 pm

I probably like more US hardcore bands than UK '77 punk bands, but in terms of influence, the Brit punk scene probably wins. Hardcore wouldn't have happened without that scene.

Of course, the original US protopunk scene created the original UK punk scene, so it all comes down - as many things inevitably do - to the first two Ramones albums and all three original Stooges albums.
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Postby Mark Hansen on Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:56 pm

SecondEdition wrote:I probably like more US hardcore bands than UK '77 punk bands, but in terms of influence, the Brit punk scene probably wins. Hardcore wouldn't have happened without that scene.

Of course, the original US protopunk scene created the original UK punk scene, so it all comes down - as many things inevitably do - to the first two Ramones albums and all three original Stooges albums.


Plus the New York Dolls, MC5, Velvet Underground, and a few others probably.

British Glitter/Glam had a big influence on all concerned as well, both on the American and British sides.
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Postby zom-zom on Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:43 pm

charliedon'tsurf wrote: Hell just the LA scene from 77-84 eclipses the entire catalog of music created in England.


Stupidest, wrongest thing I've ever seen posted here.
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Postby SecondEdition on Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:50 pm

Mark Hansen wrote:
SecondEdition wrote:I probably like more US hardcore bands than UK '77 punk bands, but in terms of influence, the Brit punk scene probably wins. Hardcore wouldn't have happened without that scene.

Of course, the original US protopunk scene created the original UK punk scene, so it all comes down - as many things inevitably do - to the first two Ramones albums and all three original Stooges albums.


Plus the New York Dolls, MC5, Velvet Underground, and a few others probably.

British Glitter/Glam had a big influence on all concerned as well, both on the American and British sides.


Well, yes, you're right. David Bowie was probably a bigger influence on Johnny Rotten than Peter Hammill...and some of David's prime mannerisms are quite similar to some of Petey's, so I hear - don't really know, since I've never really listened to much of Van Der Graaf Generator, but that's what some people say...
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Postby tommydski on Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:55 pm

zom-zom wrote:
charliedon'tsurf wrote: Hell just the LA scene from 77-84 eclipses the entire catalog of music created in England.


Stupidest, wrongest thing I've ever seen posted here.
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Postby Ernest on Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:15 pm

Mark Hansen wrote:
Skronk wrote:
itchy mcgoo wrote:
Skronk wrote:Dead Boys vs. Dead Kennedys: US


These are both US. Maybe Soft Boys vs. DK




Oops, my mistake. I was thinking of Sham 69 and wrote the Dead Boys.


I like Sham 69. Borstal Breakout and Hersham Boys are great songs. I'd probably pick them over the Dead Kennedys.

I love the Soft Boys as well, but I wouldn't call them a punk band at all. Unless there's some older material I haven't heard.

Throbbing Gristle wins over Suicide because they are still making great music. I think TG may be the one band who I've listened to more than anyone else. Certainly within the Industrial music genre. I never get tired of them.


I like Sham, but they never hit me as being more than a one album sort of band. DK had the music, the humor, and constantly changed. There's always room for Jello.

Mark, my man, you are on the mark!
D.O.A., Part Two: The Endless Not, and TG Now are amazing. As much as I love Suicide, I gotta hand it to Genesis and Cosey.
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Postby a. james on Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:20 pm

both of these genres are ear poison to me.

if you put any band from either area onto the stereo i'd bitch until you turned it off.

these musics is painting by numbers to me. the work was done all they had to do was fill in the blanks.

like mad libs. fuck 'em both in the ear.
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Postby SecondEdition on Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:36 pm

that damned fly wrote:both of these genres are ear poison to me.

if you put any band from either area onto the stereo i'd bitch until you turned it off.

these musics is painting by numbers to me. the work was done all they had to do was fill in the blanks.

like mad libs. fuck 'em both in the ear.


aren't you a wire fan?
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Postby Mr_Deadite on Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:41 am

Skronk wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:
Skronk wrote:
itchy mcgoo wrote:
Skronk wrote:Dead Boys vs. Dead Kennedys: US


These are both US. Maybe Soft Boys vs. DK




Oops, my mistake. I was thinking of Sham 69 and wrote the Dead Boys.


I like Sham 69. Borstal Breakout and Hersham Boys are great songs. I'd probably pick them over the Dead Kennedys.

I love the Soft Boys as well, but I wouldn't call them a punk band at all. Unless there's some older material I haven't heard.

Throbbing Gristle wins over Suicide because they are still making great music. I think TG may be the one band who I've listened to more than anyone else. Certainly within the Industrial music genre. I never get tired of them.


I like Sham, but they never hit me as being more than a one album sort of band. DK had the music, the humor, and constantly changed. There's always room for Jello.

Mark, my man, you are on the mark!
D.O.A., Part Two: The Endless Not, and TG Now are amazing. As much as I love Suicide, I gotta hand it to Genesis and Cosey.


I find myself liking Jello Biafra more than I like DK's actual music. I do like them, though.
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Postby a. james on Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:01 am

SecondEdition wrote:
that damned fly wrote:both of these genres are ear poison to me.

if you put any band from either area onto the stereo i'd bitch until you turned it off.

these musics is painting by numbers to me. the work was done all they had to do was fill in the blanks.

like mad libs. fuck 'em both in the ear.


aren't you a wire fan?


aye. but i don't think wire, Go4, or PiL is in the same class as sham 69, uk subs, exploited, stiff little fingers, etc, etc, etc. i mean, it's punk we're talking not post punk right?
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Postby tommydski on Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:12 am

Wire formed in 1976.
Go4 in 1977.
PiL in 1978.

I think they count as Punk too.
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Postby a. james on Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:41 am

tommydski wrote:Wire formed in 1976.
Go4 in 1977.
PiL in 1978.

I think they count as Punk too.


i know.

think what you want. i don't consider them punk.
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Postby Ernest on Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:06 pm

I don't consider PiL, and Go4 to be punk, but definitely Wire's first two albums. It doesn't really matter, after all. They were all influenced by punk, but took it in a better, more original direction.
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