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Presidential Contender: Mitt Romney

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Mitt Romney

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NOT CRAP
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Total votes : 129

Postby galanter on Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:00 pm

Minotaur029 wrote:Clinton would destroy Romney. Period.


It's really hard to tell at this point. Both are pretty slick in their own way. Both have changed their positions in ways that make people suspect something other than a sincere changing of the mind. Both have problems with more radical wings of their party. Romney was able to win in a state one wouldn't think of as being supportive of his party. Clinton less so but to some extent.

I still worry about Hillary's high negatives. Something like 40%+ of those polled have said they would never vote for her regardless of who she runs against. She can likely cut into that somewhat.

The trump card might be Bill Clinton. Even at the height of his problems he had a 60% approval rating. And he still does. You won't find someone more savvy about national politics than him. And he is highly motivated to help Hillary win any way he can.

Still, if I was a bookie, I'd be really nervous about setting a line at this point.

*Giuliani* is a different story. She can beat him for sure...unless another 9/11 happens between now and then.
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Postby BClark on Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:32 pm

alex maiolo wrote:All religion is full of crazy stories, the Mormons are guilty of nothing more than theirs being, apparently, too recent to be valid. It's OK that Moses parted the Red Sea thousands of years ago, but Smith talked to God in the 1800s? Now that's just crazy talk!


yea but on top of the wacko "our dude talked to god, and not even that long ago" business, mormons have a messed up history with racial issues. essentially they think that god views blacks as lesser, and that slavery was a punishment/curse sent from god because blacks had "hardened their hearts against him" (thats a direct quote from the book of mormon). simply put, mormons are racist with a really extensive racist history.
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Postby galanter on Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:26 pm

The entire US has an extensive racist history. Some churches had doctrine justifying slavery. There was some question in many white's minds as to whether blacks were fully human or whether they had souls. This was somewhat reflected in the original constitution

But blacks are no longer slaves. And blacks can be, and some are, Mormons.
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Postby BClark on Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:33 pm

galanter wrote:The entire US has an extensive racist history. Some churches had doctrine justifying slavery. There was some question in many white's minds as to whether blacks were fully human or whether they had souls. This was somewhat reflected in the original constitution

But blacks are no longer slaves. And blacks can be, and some are, Mormons.


yea but youre talking about some churches. i'm talking about the original text (i quoted directly from the book of mormon) that the entire mormon religion follows. its racist. do they still use/worship this text? i think so. enough said.

sure, blacks can be, and some are, mormons. similarly, blacks can be, and some are, republicans.
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Postby alex maiolo on Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:32 pm

BClark wrote:
alex maiolo wrote:All religion is full of crazy stories, the Mormons are guilty of nothing more than theirs being, apparently, too recent to be valid. It's OK that Moses parted the Red Sea thousands of years ago, but Smith talked to God in the 1800s? Now that's just crazy talk!


yea but on top of the wacko "our dude talked to god, and not even that long ago" business, mormons have a messed up history with racial issues. essentially they think that god views blacks as lesser, and that slavery was a punishment/curse sent from god because blacks had "hardened their hearts against him" (thats a direct quote from the book of mormon). simply put, mormons are racist with a really extensive racist history.


Read all of the chapters in Leviticus and get back to me.

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Postby Andrew. on Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:50 pm

Blacks could not be ordained as Mormon priests until 1978. Also, the U.S. has a racist present. Not saying anyone here doesn't know this, but it's worth repeating. And repeating.

As for the end of slavery, leaving aside the disproportionate number of blacks toiling in the lowest quarters of wage slavery, the U.S. incarcerates nearly 6 times as much of its black male citizenry as did apartheid South Africa. More than 1 in 4 young black males serves jail time in the U.S. The U.S., in fact, locks up more of its population than any other nation on earth, and about half are black. China, Russia, Iran, Zimbabwe, Burma--none holds a candle. This is worth thinking about.

Gotta love a for-profit prison system. A gulag for the niggers.

I doubt Obama would do any more to change this situation than Romney, I'm afraid.
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Postby Chromodynamic on Sun Oct 28, 2007 10:50 pm

alex maiolo wrote:He's Christian, but he's also kind. He believes in creationism, but doesn't think it excludes evolution - which is one of many ways to define "intelligent design," a very misunderstood term by the Left.


I would just like to say that 'intelligent design' isn't misunderstood at all, It has and always will be complete horseshit.

P.S. - Mitt Romney is crap.
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Postby Minotaur029 on Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:17 pm

galanter wrote:
Minotaur029 wrote:Clinton would destroy Romney. Period.


It's really hard to tell at this point. Both are pretty slick in their own way. Both have changed their positions in ways that make people suspect something other than a sincere changing of the mind. Both have problems with more radical wings of their party. Romney was able to win in a state one wouldn't think of as being supportive of his party. Clinton less so but to some extent.

I still worry about Hillary's high negatives. Something like 40%+ of those polled have said they would never vote for her regardless of who she runs against. She can likely cut into that somewhat.

The trump card might be Bill Clinton. Even at the height of his problems he had a 60% approval rating. And he still does. You won't find someone more savvy about national politics than him. And he is highly motivated to help Hillary win any way he can.

Still, if I was a bookie, I'd be really nervous about setting a line at this point.

*Giuliani* is a different story. She can beat him for sure...unless another 9/11 happens between now and then.


Giuliani has the best shot against Clinton...seeing as we probably will not see a Huckabee miracle comeback (though a good showing in Iowa could change that pretty damn quick). In the polls, only he comes close.

Bill Clinton was not just at 60% during the height of his "troubles"...he was at 62 and 63%...hot damn!!

Knowing the polls...knowing Mitt Romney (I've followed him for years since ever since I knew he was itching to be a presidential candidate in the aftermath of '04)...I maintain that Clinton would destroy Romney. Period.

a-rod wrote:THAT is the strategy for this election - run someone who isn't going to get out the hate-the-candidate anti-vote.


Alex...you are right...to an extent. Hillary would indeed get the "haters" to work triple shifts...but any Democrat would do that. Obama or Richardson...even Edwards would not deserve the "get out the hate" bum rush...but the Republicans would still get out there and tear to shreds any Democrat that gets the nomination.

Remember Max Cleland? (spelling?...in any case, the triple Vietnam amputee/former Georgia senator). There's a man who got fucked by the Republican machine for being nothing but a man in an opposing party...hard. I'm shaky on his voting record, but wasn't he fairly moderate??

Any Democrat (with the exception of Hillary Clinton) would annihilate the Republican candidate...alas, I don't think anybody is going to stop Hillary. I am so angry that an opportunity to actually change the way the country is being run is being squandered.

My girlfriend and I are talking about moving to Ireland/the U.K. after I finish grad school. It's looking like a better idea all the time. I never felt the need to leave this country, but the consolidation of power/BUSH has got me convinced that bad shit is about to go down...I just don't know what.
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Postby galanter on Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:42 am

Giuliani is doing well because nobody is attacking him where he can be hurt. The public doesn't really know him yet.

His own kids won't speak with him. His personal life has been a mess. The Republican base will be very apathetic because many of them consider him to be a closet Democrat when it comes to "values." So he will likely have to swing further right to win the Republican nomination, and that will allow Clinton to take the middle (which she is already well on the way to accomplishing, and that's what swings the election).

The Bernie Carrick scandal will come back to haunt him, and there are likely more where that came from. The Dems will be going over his consulting business with a fine toothed comb. He has a bad temper and shoots from the hip, and at some point that's going to hurt him. And it's not at all clear that he really understands the America outside of NYC. Clinton does. And Clinton & Clinton even better. A lot of folks in the south and midwest don't trust New Yorkers. Hillary can selectively present an Arkansas face, an Illinois face, and even a New York face. She can probably even beat Giuliani in New York state.

Giuliani a one trick pony. Security. That's it. If things get better in Iraq people will worry less about security and feel less of a need for him. If things get worse, he will have to defend the war and will be associated in peoples minds with Bush. Either way it hurts him.

This is why I say as long as there isn't another 9/11, Clinton can take Giuliani. No problem.
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Postby FuzzBob on Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:50 am

galanter wrote:Giuliani is doing well because nobody is attacking him where he can be hurt. The public doesn't really know him yet.

His own kids won't speak with him. His personal life has been a mess. The Republican base will be very apathetic because many of them consider him to be a closet Democrat when it comes to "values." So he will likely have to swing further right to win the Republican nomination, and that will allow Clinton to take the middle (which she is already well on the way to accomplishing, and that's what swings the election).


Guliani has nearly zero support from the evangelical right, and neither does Romney at this point simply by virtue of being Mormon.

The evangelical right is cracking up under its own weight anyway.
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Postby Minotaur029 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:30 am

^A great article. Thank you!
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Postby alex maiolo on Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:26 pm

Chromodynamic wrote:
alex maiolo wrote:He's Christian, but he's also kind. He believes in creationism, but doesn't think it excludes evolution - which is one of many ways to define "intelligent design," a very misunderstood term by the Left.


I would just like to say that 'intelligent design' isn't misunderstood at all, It has and always will be complete horseshit.

P.S. - Mitt Romney is crap.


It's more complex than people make it.

Do you think there is a difference between someone who says:
"I believe that god created everything around us, and that fossils were put here to fool us and test our faith."
-and-
"I believe things are far too complex to be an accident, and it's very possible that there was some sort of divine intervention, but after the Big Bang, yeah, evolution took over The Great Plan, or whatever you want to cal it."

I do. I think there's a big, big difference.
Both, however, and acceptable versions of "intelligent design."
The zealots have actually co-opted the term when the latter example I gave is much more in line with what it originally meant.
It sounds better than "creationism" because it uses the word "intelligent," and the zealots know that.

Intelligent Design is what full-on scientists who are also religious use as an arguement for how they can believe in both things.

And yes, Romney is total crap.

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Postby Chromodynamic on Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:39 pm

alex maiolo wrote:
Chromodynamic wrote:
alex maiolo wrote:He's Christian, but he's also kind. He believes in creationism, but doesn't think it excludes evolution - which is one of many ways to define "intelligent design," a very misunderstood term by the Left.


I would just like to say that 'intelligent design' isn't misunderstood at all, It has and always will be complete horseshit.

P.S. - Mitt Romney is crap.


It's more complex than people make it.

...

Intelligent Design is what full-on scientists who are also religious use as an arguement for how they can believe in both things.

And yes, Romney is total crap.


I think the baffling complexity of the universe is properly addressed by theanthropic principle, which is what full-on scientists should probably use as an argument for how they can believe in both things.
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Postby Hexpane on Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:19 pm

after I moved from Boston I remember being shocked at my MA electing Romney Guvna.

Even my non republican friends voted for him. I have a sinking feeling he will bamboozle the rest of the USA as well and will be our next president.

Oh and he is the epitome of a 2 faced lying politician and clearly a soul less corporate douchewhore

I fear for our nation, it is about to get Mitt-Raped
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Postby Minotaur029 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:22 pm

Hexpane wrote:I fear for our nation, it is about to get Mitt-Raped


He is a very scary man...but as a cynical sort of dude, I am not afraid that this guy has a chance at being our president.
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Postby Minotaur029 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:24 pm

There's a great article on Romney in this week's New Yorker (the one with the Cheney as jack-o-lantern cover).
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Postby Foldyourarmsandsaynah on Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:58 pm

[/quote]
America is not ready for talk of magic underwear, polygamy, or a 19th century savior. -A[/quote]

I don't know about the rest of America, but I've been waiting to talk about magic underwear and polygamy for YEARS. They can keep the 19th century savior though, thanks.
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Postby Sock OR Muffin? on Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:22 pm

They had a sound bite of Mitt at a campaign stop on NPR this morning saying something to the effect of "If you want less liberty, more taxes and big brother, vote for a democrat."

Hahahahahaha

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Postby Hexpane on Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:28 pm

The Mittenator is a 2-1 fav to win IMO.

Pro abortion? Vote for mitt
Anti abortion? vote for mitt
pro gun nut? vote for mitt
anti gun nut? vote for mitt
afraid of terror? vote for mitt
want less government? vote for mitt
want lower taxes? vote for mitt

thats basically his political "stance" , anything to get a nomination

you don't think he can win? he won in MA.
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Postby enframed on Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:48 pm

Image

maybe mitt romney and wife are captain and mrs. underpants.

there's no way a mormon is gonna be elected. if he is elected i can no longer be at all optimistic about the inteligence of the average american.
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