home studios equipment staff/friends booking/rates for sale forum contact

Band: Coil

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

Coil?

CRAP
5
13%
NOT CRAP
35
88%
 
Total votes : 40

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Jeremy B on Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:52 pm

Isabelle Gall wrote:Load of wank.


I can't think of a more ringing endorsement.
Jon Fine wrote:What had started out as free and welcoming ended up becoming as rigid and rule-bound as everything I'd hoped it would replace.
User avatar
Jeremy B
Leader with Extraordinary Personality
Leader with Extraordinary Personality
 
Posts: 2750
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:48 pm
Location: Ladies Dormitory, 90066

Re: Band: Coil

Postby 24K on Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:22 pm

User avatar
24K
mayor
mayor
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:39 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby 24K on Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:23 pm

.
User avatar
24K
mayor
mayor
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:39 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby M.H on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:22 am

Isabelle Gall wrote:Load of wank.


Creative fuel comes in different forms for different folks, no?

I L.U.V Coil, but I'll admit the earlier material gets less spooky and more camp as time passes (mostly due to compositional arrangement rather than technology or choice of topics), and a lot of the 90's ecstasy damaged material is a tad flimsy.

Still, at their best (Horse Rotorvator, Music To Play In The Dark, The Ape Of Naples, ... And The Ambulance Died In His Arms) they are titanic. One of the few (if only) groups from those first two waves of industrial music to move away from the aesthetic and settle into an equally captivating second run.

Maybe WF 2 for boutique selling tactics and wandering into vanity project territory on occasion, but there's may too much beautifully distorted otherworld art here for me to get aggrieved.

Coil: N.C, even when they're covered in the stuff.

Image
M.H
mo udall
mo udall
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Isabelle Gall on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:47 pm

I do think what happened to Geoff/Jhonn was incredibly awful and sad, and it's upsetting to watch the video 24K posted knowing that he would be dead so soon afterwards, but the way this was immediately assimilated into the relentlessly self mythologising cult was stomach churning to witness. Now that Sleazy is dead as well Coil's music has achieved deathless immortality due to the absolute validation of both of its creators demise and it's almost as if their respective deaths are celebrated whenever their music is. While I might not care for their music, it's rather this which would be my personal problem with Coil.
User avatar
Isabelle Gall
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4954
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby M.H on Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:01 pm

Isabelle Gall wrote:I do think what happened to Geoff/Jhonn was incredibly awful and sad,


He lived a charmed life, free of financial pressures and obligation, able to totally commit himself to his art from a very young age. My understanding is that his alcoholism was a relentless source of misery, and I sympathise with those who loved and worked with him, but a lot of that pain was... unnecessary.

Isabelle Gall wrote: but the way this was immediately assimilated into the relentlessly self mythologising cult was stomach churning to witness. Now that Sleazy is dead as well Coil's music has achieved deathless immortality due to the absolute validation of both of its creators demise and it's almost as if their respective deaths are celebrated whenever their music is.


Dunno about this. Would you say Coil made flat out death worship music, and that Sleazy marketed Coil's music in this way after Jhonn's death? I'd argue that with file sharing all this out of print music has found a much wider audience that has misinterpreted what Coil was about: suddenly all those old NIN fans are able to check it out and have drawn basic conclusions because nobody is left alive to set them right.

The way Columbia marketed all those Alice In Chains best ofs during Layne's Howard Hughes on heroin years, there's some cynical, despicable myth making right there. I don't think it's fair to compare conscious, tasteless decisions like that with an organic (albeit unfortunate) process of simple people drawing simple conclusions about complex art when the artist isn't around to defend it.

What I love about Coil's music is its wide emotional range: they were as blissed out and awestruck and loved up as much as they extolled the virtues of anal sex magik (in thee dark). They hated what the post-industrial scene devolved into and totally opposed the nazi/neofolk cartoons like Boyd and Doug P, which is why they continued to make awesome music all the way to the end and why those two pantomime dames haven't made any interesting music in over a decade.

Perhaps my views are shaped by the fact the only Coil fans I've met in real life are gay guys in their 40s/ 50s who were actually there and who have told me endlessly funny and kinky stories about the Sleazy and Jhonn. Sometimes a little sad, but mostly life affirming stuff. Maybe you're hanging around with the wrong Coil fans?
M.H
mo udall
mo udall
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Isabelle Gall on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:03 pm

M.H wrote:Would you say Coil made flat out death worship music, and that Sleazy marketed Coil's music in this way after Jhonn's death?

Probably more just a general problem with nihilism in art, where the (literal) death of the author is what completes the narrative. When that happens the work is going to sell itself. Think Plath, Rothko, Joy Division etc. It's a shame Coil never escaped this as their work is something in which people find real courage and consolation. With skepticism in art or elsewhere you would have to ask yourself what comes afterwards and I think its better to do this with nihilism too than bask in its deathly glow of supposedly absolute profundity.

M.H wrote:Perhaps my views are shaped by the fact the only Coil fans I've met in real life are gay guys in their 40s/ 50s who were actually there and who have told me endlessly funny and kinky stories about the Sleazy and Jhonn. Sometimes a little sad, but mostly life affirming stuff. Maybe you're hanging around with the wrong Coil fans?

I'm not hanging around with anyone anywhere for better or worse although I do know a couple of people who met them a few times and they both say the exact same thing.
User avatar
Isabelle Gall
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4954
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby M.H on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:55 pm

Isabelle Gall wrote:Probably more just a general problem with nihilism in art, where the (literal) death of the author is what completes the narrative. When that happens the work is going to sell itself. Think Plath, Rothko, Joy Division etc. It's a shame Coil never escaped this as their work is something in which people find real courage and consolation. With skepticism in art or elsewhere you would have to ask yourself what comes afterwards and I think its better to do this with nihilism too than bask in its deathly glow of supposedly absolute profundity.


While there is an undeniable element of truth in what you're saying, I think that you're placing too much importance on the human instinct to force a narrative onto what is essentially a random series of events. It's just straight up coincidence that Balance died at a 'convenient' time for a typically tragic story to be constructed, but really, only idiots or the inexperienced will take any genuine meaning from that roll of the dice.

I'm not trying to suggest that you're advocating this narrative, but I'm trying to say this isn't an arbitrary position we have to accept. It's a pity Jhonn died in a stupid accident and didn't get the chance to make more art, but that's all the meaning anybody with a brain can take from his death. You can choose not to accept this teenage death trip crap. "He meant it, man" Pift. Whatever.

I mean, does the fact Hubert Selby Jr was able to clean up before he died make his first four books any less skin peelingly intense and despairing? Does the fact Alexander Trocchi hung around living the life of a worthless unproductive junkie for years make Cain's Book any less of a master piece on the nullifying effects of addiction? Does Genet's multiple failed suicide attempts somehow pale to Mishima or Plath's success?

I say no. Fuck that awful narrative and the garbage culture that embraces it. The art has to stand on its own, always, and we can choose to sympathise with the fact the people who made were/are as flawed and weak as the rest of us. We can choose to elevate the discourse around the art rather than dumb it down.

Isabelle Gall wrote:I'm not hanging around with anyone anywhere for better or worse although I do know a couple of people who met them a few times and they both say the exact same thing.


Worse, sweetie. People are great. If you're ever around in central London and want company, P.M me: there's nothing better than coffee and conversation with strangers.
M.H
mo udall
mo udall
 
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:41 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Isabelle Gall on Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:51 pm

For various reasons I couldn't ever believe in such a thing as a random series of events in any individual case, but I agree that eventually Coil's work will have to be evaluated aside from its context of myriad references and what we know about the people who created it.

M.H wrote:If you're ever around in central London and want company, P.M me: there's nothing better than coffee and conversation with strangers.

I will do. Thank you very much.
User avatar
Isabelle Gall
Master Of The Computer
Master Of The Computer
 
Posts: 4954
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:35 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Red Square on Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:39 am

Balance's coffin portrait is probably the single best post-mortem photo of anyone i've ever seen, it very much framed him beautifully...

Image
Aztec Black Box

jimmy two hands wrote:Sexy existential dread
User avatar
Red Square
Heaven-Sent Hero
Heaven-Sent Hero
 
Posts: 6914
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:23 pm
Location: on the street of crocodiles...

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Twilight Sparkle on Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:52 pm

Ape of Naples is a beautiful album. Last Amethyst Deceiver was the first thing I taught myself on bass. Not Crap.
User avatar
Twilight Sparkle
the white ho
the white ho
 
Posts: 1697
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:43 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Band: Coil

Postby ErikG on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:12 pm

Sublime and beautiful music. See "Dark River" (and many others.)

NC.
User avatar
ErikG
fran
fran
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:43 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby oswaldwen on Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:05 am

NC.
User avatar
oswaldwen
ward boss
ward boss
 
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 3:37 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Defender on Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:51 pm

Isabelle Gall wrote:
M.H wrote:Would you say Coil made flat out death worship music, and that Sleazy marketed Coil's music in this way after Jhonn's death?

Probably more just a general problem with nihilism in art, where the (literal) death of the author is what completes the narrative. When that happens the work is going to sell itself. Think Plath, Rothko, Joy Division etc. It's a shame Coil never escaped this as their work is something in which people find real courage and consolation. With skepticism in art or elsewhere you would have to ask yourself what comes afterwards and I think its better to do this with nihilism too than bask in its deathly glow of supposedly absolute profundity.


Gall!
i feel that you have an incredibly screwy sense of semantics. you're using mostly all meaningless words. i don't see any base you set for words and phrases you use, such as 'general problem'.. 'nihilism' 'art' '(literal) death'??! ... what is this shame that coil never escaped to you? how come coil fans don't see it the way you do?

i think that you are(were) caught up with this idea precisely because you were confused, because they (coil) have entirely different conceptions of death, life, love, nihilism, and so on and so forth than you have. this confusion takes shape by pessimistic ideas of your own. in other words, i don't figure you have a very good idea of what they're about. what they actually mean by 'death' n so on compared to what you think because i promise you it's completely different to them. i hope i'm being straightforward enough.. i dont know how understanding things actually works so i can't tell you how you can too. to me coil is for the most part cheery, fun, intelligent, magikal.


anyways i think coil seems obviously the most not crap music i know
i find that all their music, however different from other phases, has a feeling of 'only coil' - which is a feeling of discipline and control. even they're albums have these dynamics song to song.. sleazy had inhuman authority over the music and JB had one of the most incredible voices and is probably my favorite lyricist.
i've heard a lot of coil, all i can find, and really like everything, about zero filler to me..
they crafted(not marketed) the name coil more methodically than any group i've ever seen.. it can even be sorta spooky discovering some of their precision. intimidating, in a fear to learn from way.
reading early coil interviews or 'manifestos' i found they had tremendous foresight to their perpetual, in-stable dynamics, which in itself is impressive domination of experimentation/the process.. so one day it dawned on me - coil has about 20 fantastic albums.. that's like 15 more than most of my other favorite er, bands.. coil, pretty phantastic.. arguably a phenomena. some of the last artists i know who operated in the same vain as the surrealists.. and they were somehow successful in doing so! that sort of aesthetic experimental approach is much less impressive in art usually, often times drowning experimentation with experimentation. but i digress. could go on and on about coil
"a little red wine, vintage record, some Ambien ... and magic!"
- elon musk
User avatar
Defender
tenderfoot
tenderfoot
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Green Bay

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Gary on Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:36 am

I have recently just got the Black Light District album. So far, that and Musick to Play in the Dark, Vol. 1 are the only Coil albums I have, but not crap!

Then, I have just read that Coil's music is getting a (sanctioned) re-issue treatment. Some of the albums were reissued just a couple of weeks ago in October by the staff at Brainwashed, though it was a short run. Hopefully, the Threshold Archives project will re-continue.

http://brainwashed.com/bark/projects-coil.html
Gary
president
president
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:41 pm
Location: California

Re: Band: Coil

Postby J_Temperance on Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:31 pm

NOT CRAP for "Horse Rotorvator" alone. It's kind of the Throbbing Gristle camp equivalent of what "Children of God" meant for Swans. You know, take their rinky-dink "evil" noise fuckery, sand off the edges a bit, give it a real sense of drama and purpose (besides aural punishment). Plus it's produced real good, like all good industrial tends to be, still holds up even to this day.

I've sort of given cursory listens to Love's Secret Domain (which I thought sucked) and the "In the Dark" albums (which sounded more like straight up music for tripping), so I guess it's WF=3 then.
J_Temperance
general studio assistant
general studio assistant
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 12:57 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby brisket on Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:58 pm

Who made more (as in, greater volume of) interesting music than Coil? No one I can think of.

Definite NC
User avatar
brisket
johnny moss
johnny moss
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:32 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Piss Pisstofferson on Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:54 am

Anyone who's heard Coil and doesnt love them, I dont understand what you want out of music or life and dont goddamn want to.
Piss Pisstofferson
mother superior
mother superior
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:07 pm

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Mick Shrimpton on Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:47 pm

Piss Pisstofferson wrote:Anyone who's heard Coil and doesnt love them, I dont understand what you want out of music or life and dont goddamn want to.

I've tried Horse Rotovator and Backwards. They were indistinguishable from Sounds From the Haunted Mansion. I imagine Trent Reznor plays Coil while he hands out Almond Joys to trick-or-treaters.

Crap.
User avatar
Mick Shrimpton
second class
second class
 
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:34 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Band: Coil

Postby Defender on Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:09 pm

woah wait.. almond joys rule, as do those two Coil albums.. oh and everything else they did too..

had a Coil dream the other night. marc almond was with them. close as i will get to seeing them i suppose! the pot i have has been giving me and my gf wild dreams all week, it's pretty neat

the reissues that come out tmrw are sold out til December already!
"a little red wine, vintage record, some Ambien ... and magic!"
- elon musk
User avatar
Defender
tenderfoot
tenderfoot
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:54 pm
Location: Green Bay

PreviousNext

Return to Crap / Not Crap

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot] and 13 guests