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Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby AnthonyVillalobos on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:42 am

Steve V. wrote:
ironyengine wrote:
BadComrade wrote:Think about it... who would win in a fist fight, the heroin addict bass player from The Smiths, or the bass player from REM? Johnny Marr could totally kick the guitar player from REM's ass, and Mike Joyce could have taken the drummer from REM out with a solid blow to the head.
\

So by this criteria I assume you like bands like the North Side Kings much, much more than those pussy english whiners the Smiths?


I saw the fucking North Side Kings play once. Them and a band called Death Before Dishonor have the fucking meatiest headed crowds ever. I was shitting my pants that whole show. People were simply looking at those dudes and in turn, getting their fucking clocks cleaned and heads wrecked. Two ambulances came, and I couldn't leave because I was in one of the closing bands just for the night. Found out later the only reason they didn't cancel was because the singer of the bands I was bass-subbing for was a friend of the Kings and it was something like if you don't back them at every show once they call you a friend, you get fucked up. Fucking dudes kicked the living shit out of everyone for no fucking reason other than no one would stand up to them. I fucking hid in the sound booth. I wasn't about to be stomped for just being alive.


I saw the Northside Kings years ago with Madball.

I can dig Madball. Northside Kings were talking about terrorists and shit. I didn't get it.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Minotaur029 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:47 am

Ace wrote:
BadComrade wrote:OH, and as Ace always says: Songs with tambourine always rule


Dammit! You can't defend the Smiths with my words (except that you just did)! Dammit Dammit Dammit!

Seriously people, with all the great undiscovered music out there you guys wanna harp on the Smiths and R.E.M.??? Just ignore it! Have fun listening to good music!!


Ace-

Put down the heroin-chic records and pick up R.E.M. again. You used to love R.E.M. before the junkie records took over your musical life, remember? I'm going to stage a musical intervention for you on A&E. You'll say, "YOU ASSHOLES you fucking trapped me, you trapped me!" Sorry, but you're not leaving until we get you on a plane to Athens, GA to get you all cleaned up.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Ace on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:52 am

Minotaur029 wrote:
Ace wrote:
BadComrade wrote:OH, and as Ace always says: Songs with tambourine always rule


Dammit! You can't defend the Smiths with my words (except that you just did)! Dammit Dammit Dammit!

Seriously people, with all the great undiscovered music out there you guys wanna harp on the Smiths and R.E.M.??? Just ignore it! Have fun listening to good music!!


Ace-

Put down the heroin-chic records and pick up R.E.M. again. You used to love R.E.M. before the junkie records took over your musical life, remember? I'm going to stage a musical intervention for you on A&E. You'll say, "YOU ASSHOLES you fucking trapped me, you trapped me!" Sorry, but you're not leaving until we get you on a plane to Athens, GA to get you all cleaned up.


You know the withdrawal is going to be particularly bad for a case like mine.
R.E.M. belong with the other stuff I liked at that time - you know, Sailor Moon, Sketcher platforms, and Full House - dead & buried.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Get dog costumes on Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:10 am

BadComrade wrote:Michael Stipe was the drab guy being Mr. Artsy, wearing eyeliner and being pretty stiff on stage, and Morrissey was a fucking living cartoon character who was always poking fun at himself.

Your "was" is important here. Stipe has good stage presence. Also, his intense stiff period and his intense eyeliner period are about a decade apart.

BadComrade wrote:The Smiths were a funny band, and REM were total pussies compared to The Smiths.

Think about it... who would win in a fist fight, the heroin addict bass player from The Smiths, or the bass player from REM? Johnny Marr could totally kick the guitar player from REM's ass, and Mike Joyce could have taken the drummer from REM out with a solid blow to the head.


You are so wrong. Did you not see Johnny Marr wearing a god damn cardigan tied around his waist in that video? Peter Buck once beat up an entire airplane full of people, let alone never tied a cardigan around his waist onstage. I will not even address your Mike Joyce remark other than to note that Bill Berry is a competent farmer and does not look totally ridiculous in fingerless leather gloves.

BadComrade wrote:Morrissey and Michael Stipe would probably just run for cover and have a lyric-off or something. Morrissey would win, because his lyrics are 100 times better than Stipe's.


Wrong again. Besides, Morrissey has an obnoxious voice.

The Smiths never had the balls to make a Document or a New Adventures in Hi-Fi. I realize that these two records are not exactly Cop or Goat, but they at least imply vertebrate musicians.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Ernest on Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:15 am

Get dog costumes wrote:The Smiths never had the balls to make a Document or a New Adventures in Hi-Fi...


Do you realize you just used balls in reference to REM?
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Get dog costumes on Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:28 am

Skronk wrote:
Get dog costumes wrote:The Smiths never had the balls to make a Document or a New Adventures in Hi-Fi...


Do you realize you just used balls in reference to REM?


Get dog costumes wrote:I realize
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby SecondEdition on Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:05 am

Ace wrote:Seriously people, with all the great undiscovered music out there you guys wanna harp on the Smiths and R.E.M.??? Just ignore it! Have fun listening to good music!!


I know there's a lot of great underappreciated music out there. However, I thought of this poll, and as one of the few polls I've come up with, I figured I might as well put it up.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Mark Lansing on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:05 pm

R.E.M. made some really wonderful records. They also took the Minutemen on the road as their opening act. Peter Buck played on The Replacements' "I Will Dare" and produced great records for Uncle Tupelo and the Original Sins. And R.E.M.'s latest album is OK (not great, but OK), and the folks I know who've met them tell me that R.E.M. are stand up guys. Meanwhile, every time I hear the Smiths, Morrissey's voice makes my fillings ache, no matter how good a guitarist Johnny Marr happens to be. And what have they done for us lately? R.E.M. wins this one in a walk.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby BadComrade on Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:50 pm

ironyengine wrote:
BadComrade wrote:Think about it... who would win in a fist fight, the heroin addict bass player from The Smiths, or the bass player from REM? Johnny Marr could totally kick the guitar player from REM's ass, and Mike Joyce could have taken the drummer from REM out with a solid blow to the head.
\

So by this criteria I assume you like bands like the North Side Kings much, much more than those pussy english whiners the Smiths?


This is REM vs The Smiths. North Side Kings aren't part of the throwdown.




Minotaur: You're high if you think the bass player from REM is better than the bass player from The Smiths.

Ace: Those songs I linked to would still be good without tambourine. Sorry to drag you in to the argument, but you did like that new Morrissey song (which I didn't even like) because of the tambourine in it, so I had to.

Get Dog Costumes: I don't think Stipe's ever had a stage presence.

As far as the cardigan thing goes. I'd rather see a guy in a cardigan than these shirts:

Image
Image
Image
^ I think my mom owns that same blouse ^

I haven't met that many people who think Document or New Adventures in Hi-Fi are even remotely good albums.

I like the Chronic Town ep and the first REM album, but not much after that has done it for me. Sure, there are some Smiths songs I never wanna hear again (How Soon Is Now? and Girlfriend in a Coma), but there are a lot of REM albums I never wanna hear again.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Minotaur029 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:10 pm

BadComrade wrote:Minotaur: You're high if you think the bass player from REM is better than the bass player from The Smiths.


No, I meant that Mike Mills could literally run circles around a heroin addict trying to slap fight him.

BadComrade wrote:I like the Chronic Town ep and the first REM album, but not much after that has done it for me.


We're in agreement here. The only thing is that I really, really like those first two releases. I listen to both constantly.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby BadComrade on Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:04 pm

You should download this April 24th 1982 Madison, WI REM show at Merlyn's. It's what I listen to the most.

http://dinostunz.blogspot.com/2008/05/r ... 82_17.html

Make sure you remember the password (listed under the download link) once you have it.



Oh, and I never liked the artwork that came with the bootleg, so I made my own. It'll print out to the perfect size to fit in a jewel case without having to resize it. The picture on the front cover is from the actual show, and the picture on the inside is of the church they used to practice in.

Cover
CD label
Back insert

(Cut off the dark blue edges)
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Minotaur029 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:46 pm

Thanks! I will enjoy this.

R.E.M. has lots and lots of great songs all over their '80s albums. The shame is that there's lots of duds that clog up the records. Lots of times, R.E.M. albums are simply way too long, especially in the '90s.

Lifes Rich Pageant is probably the strongest of the other '80s releases...but again, duds abound. I think I should try Reckoning again, but my hopes aren't high. As their jangle evolved from their first EP and Murmur, it became gradually less janglicious with seemingly every release.

There's so much worthwhile R.E.M. out there, but the band suffers from a lack of consistent albums and an excess of sincerity laden silliness. Such is the risk when a band can move you emotionally--they can make you cringe all the worse when they screw up.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby ironyengine on Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:10 pm

Minotaur029 wrote:Thanks! I will enjoy this.


Likewise. And BadComrade, I understand this thread is about The Smiths VS R.E.M. but you took it to the level of which band could beat up the other, so I'm forced to think you're a Hatebreed fan as well. That's all. ;)
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby tommydski on Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:37 pm

I genuinely believe that all the records up to and including Document are great.

It blows my mind that people who like Chronic Town and Murmur wouldn't love Reckoning, which is an excellent continuation of the sound forged on those earlier records. Give it another couple of spins to remind yourself. It's a classic!
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby SecondEdition on Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:47 pm

Minotaur029 wrote: I think I should try Reckoning again, but my hopes aren't high.


You should get your hopes up - Reckoning is, by far, my favorite R.E.M. album.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Minotaur029 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:53 pm

tommydski wrote:It blows my mind that people who like Chronic Town and Murmur wouldn't love Reckoning, which is an excellent continuation of the sound forged on those earlier records. Give it another couple of spins to remind yourself. It's a classic!


I seem to remember some duds, but I know that the majority of the songs on that album are great.

The sound on Chronic Town and Murmur is just a little darker and better. Whenever I play Murmur, it just blows my mind everytime. Those first two releases are, to my ear, distinctive and perfect. Reckoning has great songs, but I just kinda filed it away under "not as exciting."

I'm doing the Reckoning thing right now and having a High Life. I just finished some serious snow shoveling and I'm craving the effortless, perfect tone of Michael Stipe.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby mr.arrison on Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:17 pm

tommydski wrote:I genuinely believe that all the records up to and including Document are great.

It blows my mind that people who like Chronic Town and Murmur wouldn't love Reckoning, which is an excellent continuation of the sound forged on those earlier records. Give it another couple of spins to remind yourself. It's a classic!



This is a tough jangledome.

I love the first three R.E.M. albums, and I dig Mike Mills basslines more than Andy Rourke's (sorry Bad Comrade). I also dug the R.E.M. bass tone. Mike creates a good mood that really anchors the early stuff (Wolves, Lower- etc). Reckoning is only 1% weaker than Murmur. Fables blows, The next-album-I-forgot-the-name is OK and finally Document is great! The rest of the R.E.M. catalog can fucking jump off a pier as far as I am concerned.

Andy seems like he just playing a lot of notes and galloping around most of the time. He's the weakest member of the Smiths, IMO. Not entirely creative with Marr's guitar orchestrations.

Peter Buck is no Johnny Marr, that's for sure. Marr is a phenomenal guitarist.

Drums are a tossup. Neither band has a mindblowing drummer. They are both adequate.

R.E.M. overstayed their welcome and released some fucking awful Shiny Happy Shit; However, the Smiths have WAY too much overproduced, post-Roxy Music, insufferable bullshit in their catalog, percentage wise. I really only give a crap about the s/t, Hatful of Hollow and Meat Is Murder LP's.

R.E.M. wins- by a nanopube.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby ERawk on Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:36 pm

Just castin' a vote for the Smiths.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby BadComrade on Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:56 am

ironyengine wrote:
Minotaur029 wrote:Thanks! I will enjoy this.


Likewise. And BadComrade, I understand this thread is about The Smiths VS R.E.M. but you took it to the level of which band could beat up the other, so I'm forced to think you're a Hatebreed fan as well. That's all. ;)


Well, it is "vs", so it could mean in a fight.

Don't like Hatebreed, but I dig Hatebeak.
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Re: Jangledome: R.E.M. vs. The Smiths

Postby Evin Relocation on Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:39 am

REM.

Listening to the Smiths is like doing homework. REM at their best are really evocative and great and at their worst they just fade softly into the background.
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