Production Dome: Nevermind Vs. In Utero

by **curry pervert** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:51 am

This has bugged me for a while now.

The prevailing wisdom seems to be that Nevermind sounds overproduced, and In Utero sounds 'more punk', but I've always thought of them the other way around - the guitars on Nevermind may be layered up, but they just sound like heavy guitars. On In Utero it sounds to me like they were trying *really hard* with the guitar sounds....is it just me?

by **Rotten Tanx** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:53 am

On this board, yes, it's likely just you.

by **mdbeh** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:18 am

I don't know if it's just you, but it's not me, that's for sure. I'd pretty much say the opposite.

To me, Nevermind sounds incredibly strained, like a garage band injected with steroids, covered in makeup, and outfitted with cancer wigs. Where In Utero just sounds like a really big version of what they actually were.

Can't help but sound a little ass-kissy on this board, but that's how I hear it.

by **DregsInTheCrowd** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:21 am

Of course neither of these albums were released with their original mixes. As they were released, I've never been super fond of the sound of either. They're terrific batches of songs, so that fact has never wrecked the music for me. I suppose In Utero wins, but it sounds really weird.

The original mixes of In Utero sound great. At the very least, they sound more real, more dynamic, more powerful than the version remixed by Scott Litt. "Milk It" sounds almost like The Jesus Lizard. The end coda of "All Apologies" is full of little details that were drowned out by the over-compressed guitar (bits of acoustic guitar and cello can be more clearly heard, and the effect is ghostly). The drumming of "Radio Friendly Unit Shifter" smacks thine face yet more so. I think you can buy the vinyl with original mixes here, but I'm no longer sure - the product page previously stated that it was the Universal Back To Black reissue, and now has no such information. One friend of mine purchased it from here, and got the right thing, but they seem to have removed all relevant info...

I've heard only a couple of the original Nevermind mixes, and I will hear them all when they are released this fall. What I've heard sounds fantastic. But I must reserve my vote until I hear them all. Butch Vig knew how to mix a damn record once.

by **Tommy** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:41 am

Nevermind's production is pretty dated sounding. I have a hard time listening to it because of the snare sounds alone. Even on the Scott Litt mix of In Utero I always thought Milk It sounded like JL.

IU hands down.

by **jimmy two hands** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:48 am

I can't get past the guitar sound on Nevermind. It sounds all filtered and compressed andflattened and like it's been run through a shit ton of phasers or flangers or something. In Utero just sounds way better. I would be interested in hearing the original mixes of each.

by **numberthirty** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:07 am

I'd just say watch the Classic Albums: Nevermind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t091h3BTONU&feature=related

Every time I watch the "Drain You" part, I want to smack Butch Vig upside the head. "Sounding like a rock song" I don't think it ever hit him that maybe it shouldn't sound like a rock song.

Every time he adds a track during the chorus on "In Bloom", the song gets smaller. It's a huge downer.

by **STF** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:42 am

In Utero. But I don't care if I never hear either record ever again.

by **Boombats** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:53 am

by **tallchris** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:03 pm

Only "Heart Shaped Box" and "All Apologies" were actually remixed by Scott Litt. The other songs are the Albini mixes, though the mastering did change a lot of the dynamics. There's an awesome vinyl rip of the original mastering job and Albini mixes of those songs that sounds AMAZING.

In Utero sounds like a punk rock band playing in a room, Nevermind sounds like someone's idea of what a punk rock band should sound like if their points of reference were Appetite for Destruction and Dr. Feelgood.

by **steve** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:41 pm

While we were working on In Utero, the band would occasionally play other recordings of theirs in the control room for reference, or when trying to describe a part to one another. They had a cassette of the rough (Butch) mix of Nevermind, and it sounded maybe 200 times more ass-kicking than what I remember of the released version.

Make no mistake about it, Butch Vig was an excellent engineer and had a good, sympathetic relationship with all the noisy bands he recorded in the 80s. Those Killdozer, Appliances and Laughing Hyenas records all sounded fantastic and suited the bands perfectly. This version sounded like that, and that was obviously why they wanted to work with him.

Through a career path that led him primarily to major label work, Butch basically didn't get to work on any decent records after that, so you can't really judge him based on the kind of crap he was handed to work on.

by **wellsyuk** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:47 pm

That's interesting. In the wake of the Nevermind deluxe set (which is ball-wateringly expensive) have you been approached about a '20 years since' In Utero deluxe release yet?

by **The MayorofRockNRoll** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:48 pm

steve wrote:...so you can't really judge him based on the kind of garbage he was handed to work on.

BV'dYP

by **tallchris** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:48 pm

The Butch Vig mix of "Breed" sounds pretty great.

Very stoked to here all the rest of the original mixes when that reissue comes out next month.

by **connor** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:58 pm

steve wrote:They had a cassette of the rough (Butch) mix of Nevermind, and it sounded maybe 200 times more ass-kicking than what I remember of the released version.

Looks like it's getting an official release.

by **154** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:00 pm

Didn't Butch Vig do some of the stuff from Incesticide, like Aneurysm and Molly's Lips? I like those recordings the best.

by **connor** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:02 pm

154 wrote:Didn't Butch Vig do some of the stuff from Incesticide, like Aneurysm and Molly's Lips? I like those recordings the best.

I'm almost positive that the versions of those songs on Incesticide were taken from the Peel sessions.

There's a better recording of "Aneurysm"--by their live soundguy--on the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" single.

by **kerble** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:06 pm

steve wrote:They had a cassette of the rough (Butch) mix of Nevermind, and it sounded maybe 200 times more ass-kicking than what I remember of the released version.

Yeah, there was a rough of "Breed" off that With the Lights Out box set that just destroys the album version. Super tough sounding.

by **kerble** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:08 pm

oh hey! I just pulled a Colonel Panic on the thread. :smt006

thanks for the link to "Breed", Chris! And yeah, I was actually excited to see the Vig mix was added to the deluxe re-issue of Nevermind.

by **154** on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:09 pm

connor wrote:
154 wrote:Didn't Butch Vig do some of the stuff from Incesticide, like Aneurysm and Molly's Lips? I like those recordings the best.

I'm almost positive that the versions of those songs on Incesticide were taken from the Peel sessions.

There's a better recording of "Aneurysm"--by their live soundguy--on the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" single.

Do Peel sessions typically have overdubs? Because those songs I mentioned were definitely layered up.