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C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

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C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby bleh. on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:28 am

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Our Band Could Be Your Band
How the Brooklynization of culture killed regional music scenes
By Justin Moyer • September 14, 2012

What is it, then, between us?

What is the count of the scores or hundreds of years between us?

Whatever it is, it avails not—distance avails not, and place avails not.

—Walt Whitman, “Crossing Brooklyn Ferry”

On July 5, 1997, my band El Guapo played a show in Danville, Va. This was our first show as a touring band—the first time we would play an unfamiliar city and sleep somewhere other than one of our parents’ houses. I was 20 years old.

From our drummer’s family homestead in Elkins, W.Va., we drove five hours over the Appalachian Mountains to Danville, a third-tier, postindustrial city rusting on the banks of the Dan River. The show was in a dilapidated, indoor skatepark in an empty warehouse district in a part of town where no one walked the streets. We arrived early and, without access to cellular technology, kept feeding quarters into a pay phone, trying to locate the promoter and access the venue. When he finally arrived, we learned that no local groups were playing—death for a touring band—and that the P.A. system was broken. Thus, we played an instrumental set on a stage built into the middle of a half-pipe for the promoter and two or three kids who skated around us as we performed. We made something like $12.

After the show, we met the promoter, a punk enthusiast in his mid-20s, and his teenage girlfriend at a Waffle House. The promoter, who traveled by bicycle, said wild dogs had attacked him on the way to the restaurant. Packs of feral canines, he claimed, roamed Danville’s vacant streets. (Our guitarist later confirmed that he heard the dogs howling. I dispute this.) He also claimed to have secured a seat on Danville’s city council—a seat for which, presumably, no other civic-minded Virginian had bothered to campaign.

A few minutes after the check was paid, it became clear that our band had nowhere to sleep and, moreover, no sleeping bags. The promoter offered his place. We accepted, and soon found ourselves on the top floor of a warehouse in what might generously be called a loft where cat litter crunched underfoot. Too many lightbulbs were red.

The band played rock-paper-scissors to decide who would sleep where. I won and, despite a well-documented allergy, ended up on a couch coated with cat hair. My bandmates slept on the floor in their clothes, having declined sheets stained with cat urine. Our guitarist later woke up with a beer top pressed into his chest. Unable to sleep, we left at 8 a.m. for our next show in North Carolina without saying goodbye. That show would be just as bad.

We had gone over the mountain, and we hadn’t liked what we’d found.

With Pussy Riot behind bars, I do not relate a 15-year-old anecdote to glorify the insignificant struggles of my punk youth. Nor do I wish to indict the Clinton-era Danville punk scene. I found the few people I met there hospitable, if unusual.

I resurrect Danville because going over the mountain is important. As alien as Danville was to a young musician from an expensive East Coast university, I needed that city because it was foreign—terra incognita where people related to music in ways that I did not. Unlike other places where I’ve brought my music—Bloomington, Ind., or Austin, Texas, or Lille, France—I didn’t like much about Danville, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t learn from Danville, or that I wouldn’t go back.

Before I was even aware of their worth, places like Danville helped me measure my music against someone else’s. Even today, I can reject what’s useless and steal what’s worthwhile. A regional music scene—hereafter, “RMS”—furthers art in the same way that, say, Wisconsin furthered progressive politics under Gov. and Sen. Robert La Follette in the early 20th century. RMSes generate ideas. They lend music character.

RMSes differentiate Hill Country blues from Delta blues and New York hardcore from Orange County hardcore from harDCore. RMSes draw lines between KRS-One and MC Shan, Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker, Merseybeat and The Kinks, Satie and Wagner. RMSes are why I would almost never play a show that wasn’t all ages in D.C., but would only play Joe’s Bar in Marfa, Texas. RMSes make you think differently.

Like accents, RMSes are disappearing. Sure, record stores and record labels are dead or living on borrowed time. Sure, smart clubowners can’t afford to book a show for an unknown, out-of-town band instead of an ’80s dance party.

But money’s not the problem—or, at least, not the only problem. RMSes are disappearing because everyone is starting to sound like everyone else.

Let’s talk about Brooklyn. Brooklyn is a place where artists gather. There are galleries, and loft parties, and record stores. A dude who presses vinyl lives there. So does a dude who makes stickers and a woman who books a venue. Because there’s an infrastructure that supports getting shit done, people do shit, and a lot of the shit they do is cool. Someone is a recording engineer. Someone is a graffiti artist. Someone has a blog. There’s a lot of energy, and a lot of people to know. Information—“Know a cheap place to print posters?” or “Who can play the tambourine in my Jefferson Airplane cover band?”—is the coin of the realm.

It’s great.

But Brooklyn has a downside. Those who abandon their RMS to come to Brooklyn risk co-option by an aesthetic Borg. Things get mushy. There’s too much input, and there’s not a lot that’s not known. Somebody’s band sounds like Howlin’ Wolf and ESG and Gang of Four, but also sounds like REO Speedwagon and Glenn Branca and The Pointer Sisters. There aren’t many secrets. There are no mountains to go over.

Do not confuse Brooklyn with, well, Brooklyn—the New York borough that sits about 230 miles from Washington on the southwest end of Long Island over the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge off of I-278. There are many Brooklyns. Los Angeles is Brooklyn. Chicago is Brooklyn. Berlin and London are Brooklyn. Babylon was the Brooklyn of the ancient world. In the 1990s, Seattle was Brooklyn. Young Chinese punks challenging Communism risk prison to make Beijing the Brooklyn of tomorrow.

Some Brooklyns aren’t even places. MySpace is Brooklyn. YouTube is Brooklyn. Facebook is Brooklyn. Spotify and iTunes are perversely, horribly, unapologetically, maddeningly Brooklyn.

I’m against it.

On general principle and for the good of all, I stopped writing music criticism for money almost a decade ago. I now reluctantly climb back into the ring to write about one of the greatest bands of the 21st century: The Gossip.

The Gossip formed in Olympia, Wash., in 1999, but its founders are from Searcy, Ark. According to famously large singer Beth Ditto, Searcy was no picnic. “There’s nothing like being called a ‘fat faggot,’ being fag-bashed, fearing for your life every day, and being ostracized as a young kid to set you up for negativity in adulthood,” she told the Vancouver Sun in 2009. “Being fat and being poor and growing up with so many kids, it wasn’t like my parents encouraged me to use my imagination. I just didn’t have a choice.”

Though I toured with The Gossip in 2003, I don’t know them well—I’ve only met them, long ago. Nor have I been to Searcy, Ark. Nor am I a time traveler. Maybe The Gossip’s surprising, heartfelt, disarming, exhilarating, totally unexpected queer blues punk could exist without Ditto’s Southern Baptist roots and the Searcy RMS. Searcy: a town of fewer than 25,000 souls less than 150 miles from Clarksdale, Miss.—John Lee Hooker’s hometown—and a two-hour drive from Memphis.

Early Gossip recordings reflect the trio’s native environs. Even with a four-string guitar and a drummer that lagged a bit live, the band was lethal. On 2003’s Movement, the band somehow sounds like a better version of Muddy Waters and a better version of Black Flag. Times change. On this year’s A Joyful Noise, The Gossip often sounds like Ke$ha.

Please understand that I’m not slagging what I consider to be an incredible group. Smart musicians evolve or die—the audience is irrelevant, or should be. But when a band from Arkansas starts making wan disco, homegrown character is, consciously or unconsciously, traded for an entrée to the global marketplace. The landscape flattens.

The Gossip is in a Brooklyn state of mind.

It’s an oft-told Beatles chestnut: As a teenager, Paul McCartney had to get on a bus to learn a guitar chord. Here’s the Walrus in an authorized 1997 biography:

We literally once went across town for a chord, B7. We all knew E, A, but the last one of the sequence is B7, and it’s a very tricky one. But there was a guy that knew it, so we all got on the bus and went to his house. “Hear tell there’s a soothsayer on the hill who knows this great chord, B7!” We all sat round like little disciples, strum strum. “How’s he doing it?” And we learned it.
I won’t fetishize post-World War II Liverpool. There may have been racism, or smog. I doubt there were avocados or unsweetened flax milk. Certainly, the future Wings frontman couldn’t grab his laptop and casually type “B7” into Wikipedia in the comfort of his bedroom. Certainly, he couldn’t sample a better guitarist playing B7 using GarageBand, Audacity, Reason, or ProTools.

McCartney had to rely on his RMS. He learned to play left-handed. He was in a skiffle band. He hustled. As De La Soul once put it, stakes was high.

Were stakes this high for Flo Rida when his production team created “Whistle,” a song about blowjobs that somehow sounds like Peter Bjorn and John’s “Young Folks,” and Black Eyed Peas’ “Just Can’t Get Enough,” and The Scorpions’ “Winds of Change?” Were they this high for Lou Reed and Metallica when they whimsically, inexplicably made Lulu? Are they this high for Nintendocore artists, or Kelly Clarkson, or Wugazi?

If they are, I can’t hear it. This music—this pastiche—doesn’t have an address. It’s all Brooklyn, the inoffensive, mix ’n’ match, international sound of internationality.

How did Brooklyn happen? Many schools of thought help explain the power of Brooklyn to seduce, mystify, and derail talented artists. These include, but are not limited to, Hegel’s “Other,” Marxism, Guy Debord’s society of the spectacle, post-colonial theory, gentrification, third-wave feminism, and Baudrillard’s whole spiel.

But it’s more efficient to refer to Ian Svenonius’s 2006 book The Psychic Soviet, an overlooked work of genius which I fear is fully understood and appreciated only by its author—the former frontman of Nation of Ulysses and The Make-Up and singer for Chain and the Gang—and me. Anyone thinking about The Psychic Soviet probably thinks it’s just a pisstake by a wild-haired punk singer who wears tight pants. For my part, I ponder this little pink pocket manual quite a bit.

In a piece called “Seinfeld Syndrome”—an essay that explains how the success of shows such as Seinfeld, Sex in the City, and The Sopranos helped gentrify New York—Svenonius writes:

The city was reborn as the super mall, its allure augmented by its storied history, born of the diversity which would be abolished. Cheap white labor, in the form of aspiring artists, could be lured via this history, mythologized in books which marketed the city through the very idiosyncratic or marginal character its advertisers had helped to systematically exterminate.

 The city’s new privileged inhabitants would wear their city’s outlaw image as a badge of honor and even venerate it with fervor, fiercely proud of a history they had never experienced, let alone contributed to—like suburbanites living on a civil war battlefield and boasting about Pickett’s charge.

Whether they were “new privileged inhabitants” or “cheap white labor,” I wonder whether many of my peers fell for Brooklyn via the process Svenonius outlines, abandoning the scene they had helped build for an imagined other. Artists wanted to live in the city of Pollock, Warhol, and Basquiat; writers wanted to live in the city of Kerouac and Thomas Wolfe; bands wanted to live in the city of Suicide, ESG, and Talking Heads. And the musicians, once they got there, started sounding more like Suicide, ESG, and Talking Heads.

Can you blame them? Who wants to live in the city of John Quincy Adams?

Whether Svenonius is right or not, in the early 2000s, Brooklyn—in both its psychic and physical forms—devastated the Washington RMS. A partial list of D.C. bands who lost members or former members to Brooklyn includes El Guapo (my band), Supersystem (my band), Antelope (my band), Edie Sedgwick (my band), Orthrelm, Measles Mumps Rubella, Quix*o*tic, Fugazi, Black Eyes, Q and Not U, Dame Fate, No Lie Relaxer, The Crainium, The Long Goodbye, Cold Cold Hearts, Bratmobile, Partyline, and Trans Am. At its creative peak, The Rapture imported half its members from D.C. Ted Leo—a former Washingtonian—stole an ex-member of The Make-Up and a member of French Toast. New York also spirited away a Black Cat booker and at least one popular recording engineer.

That’s just our little indie-rock world.

Though it once loomed large across the nation, the Washington RMS isn’t big. It’s not a national scene. And no RMS can lose this many people—literally dozens of musicians, promoters, flyer-makers, T-shirt silkscreeners, sound guys, record company and record store employees, and showgoers—to a Brooklyn and expect to remain relevant.

Fucking Brooklyn. I would have moved there too, but was unwilling to abandon my piano.

I am not from Brooklyn. I’ve recorded records there, but never lived there. I was born in Philadelphia in 1977.

Now “the sixth borough,” Philadelphia was an unenviable place to be from for teenagers interested in alternative music in the 1990s—though, it must be noted, it wasn’t as bad as Searcy. It was The Dead Milkmen, G. Love & Special Sauce, and The Roots against the world. A record store in my hometown that should have survived to be put out of business by iTunes went bust before the end of the Clinton administration instead.

In Philadelphia, input was limited. I remember a time when I owned two tapes: U2’s Rattle and Hum and Billy Joel’s Greatest Hits. If I wanted to dust off the record player, my mother had scratchy copies of Black Sabbath’s Paranoid and Led Zeppelin IV. Born in the U.S.A. was in heavy rotation. So was a weird 1960s mix featuring “The Monster Mash.” When a friend introduced me to The Dead Kennedys, it was good luck. When I heard Fugazi, it was a miracle.

Was it my duty to stay in Philadelphia instead of moving to the District? Is Washington my Brooklyn? Faithful to my RMS, should I have started a funky, live hip-hop group, or joined Mummers, or listened exclusively to Sun Ra’s Arkestra? Should I be hanging out with Kurt Vile?

What this essay is not saying: People should only play and listen to music native to their RMS. Los Angeles rappers should sound like Tupac. New Orleanians should rush to join second lines. Go to Wilson High? Start a straightedge band. Live in Ward 8? Play conga at the go-go.

This isn’t the Soviet Union. When desperate people start talking about the need to “support the scene,” you know the scene is dead.

What this essay is saying: In Brooklyn, there is too much input.

What this essay is saying: If music wasn’t better before Brooklyn, it was, at least, weirder.

What this essay is saying: In Brooklyn, music comes too cheap. (Please note: “too cheap” doesn’t refer to price.)

What this essay is saying: When you’re a young musician, it’s better to start with just “The Monster Mash” than with every song ever recorded.

What this essay is saying: A melting pot is not an aesthetic. Neither is a salad bar.

What this essay is saying: There is a tidal wave of generic, mushy, apolitical, featureless, Brooklynish music infiltrating the world’s stereos.

What this essay is saying: Beware what you put on your iPod.

It might not be dangerous.
Last edited by bleh. on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby 154 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:09 am

(I read as much as I could stand)..

I don't think he's wrong, but it's nothing new. Bands in smaller towns have always imitated things from other places, notably the big cities. It's almost hypocritical to complain about "too much of everything all the time" and then expecting the good stuff to be neatly delivered to you. You just have to be patient and persistent, again, which is is nothing new.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby jimmy two hands on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:21 am

I'd say the internet killed the regional music scene before Brooklyn had a chance.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby Mason on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:33 am

154 wrote:I don't think he's wrong, but it's nothing new.


This is a good way to put it.

There have been "The Place to Be"s before Brooklyn and there are others to come. And at any rate, that only has a small role to play in the shrinking of local scenes. It seems like dude's actual issue is with Kids And They Internet, which he gets at briefly with the Macca bit and the treatise at the end.

"Music was better/more interesting before " is just the other side of the "This new music is just noise" coin. It's also the "not to sound racist, but" of criticism.

If it makes dude feel better, it's getting increasingly impossible for weird bottom-tier bands to tour, so regional scenes will be building themselves back up in the next couple years. The instantly accessible information thing, that's not going away. It's also not a problem. Maybe it's silly that kids can grab 500GB of albums the same week they pick up a guitar for the first time. But I'm not sorry that I don't have to bus forty minutes to learn a guitar chord, asshole.

At least this reminded me to pick up the Psychic Soviet.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby 154 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:41 am

Mason wrote:If it makes dude feel better, it's getting increasingly impossible for weird bottom-tier bands to tour, so regional scenes will be building themselves back up in the next couple years.


Yeah. 'Regional' will have a different meaning though. Your aesthetic 'brother band' might be someone from eastern Europe with an EP under their belt.

Considering the author's current references were The Gossip, Kesha, and Peter, Bjorn & John, my guess is he isn't digging too deep.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby Mason on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:53 am

154 wrote:'Regional' will have a different meaning though. Your aesthetic 'brother band' might be someone from eastern Europe with an EP under their belt.


http://www.prfbbq.com/
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby OrthodoxEaster on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:56 am

There's certainly some truth in this. Culture is being globalized at a more rapid rate than before and, in a sense, this is boring for art. But in my opinion, technology, money, and people's lack of imagination are more to blame for an increased rate of homogenous crap. To some extent, they always have been.

People always flocked to NYC. I remember moving here (from Philadelphia, actually) and marveling at the incredible number of boring, generic, shitty bands in the early '90s, too. It's true that there are far more of them now, and they sound worse. But all this polite mix-and-match-of-influences NPR/Wikipediarock is more of a reflection of the idea of "subculture" at large. And there are various reasons for that. "Subcultures" are really different now, and "movements"--regional, musical, whatever--are rendered toothless much more rapidly b/c information is disseminated too fast, allowing them to be co-opted for the lowest common denominator at a blinding rate.

I would say the most articulate argument for this was made nearly 20 years ago by Joe Carducci, when he said that "art" in America has become the preserve of professionals and college students; it ceased being a "drop-out" culture. There's glamor and media attention and fame associated w/a career in or even dabbling in "art" (or music or whatever), no matter how "low" the form. Used to be, playing in a punk band or working in a scummy storefront gallery or whatever was a degenerate's game, requiring a degree of sacrifice or discomfort, but now it's sexy and cozy. And perhaps that's why NYC is currently more Dirty Projectors than Unsane. Although really, there have always been Dirty Projectors in this town; any number of shitty new wave bands in the '80s would have filled that void.

Too often, the problem lies w/people not being terribly individualistic or imaginative when they're playing music. I don't think geography has all that much to do w/it. I like aspects of regional music, but at the same time this idea of little inclusive "scenes" (and DC in particular has always been really hung-up on this) is total bullshit, even if some of the music can be distinctive. Art is not a love-in, and it shouldn't really have to be about "identifying" w/people or "community." (Which perhaps explains why I prefer No Trend to say, Minor Threat.)

bleh. wrote:Early Gossip recordings [sound] like a better version of Muddy Waters and a better version of Black Flag.... In a piece called “Seinfeld Syndrome”—an essay that explains how the success of shows such as Seinfeld, Sex in the City, and The Sopranos helped gentrify New York—Svenonius


Um, no. I suppose it's all subjective, but that first point is just crazy.

To some extent, I believe the Svenonius argument in the second point. But again, it's way too simplistic.

Anyway, there are some really good ideas in this article, and I can identify w/some of it. But there is some old hat, as well. And--although I am a die-hard Manhattan resident and Queens enthusiast, who has been known to mock Brooklyn rather loudly for kicks--I'm not really sure how much I buy into the idea of "Brooklyn" personifying some kinda downfall. The problem is way bigger, more complex, and more deeply entrenched in human nature than anything an overhyped borough could possibly personify. You're giving Brooklyn WAY too much credit, man.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby 154 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:08 pm

OrthodoxEaster wrote:I like aspects of regional music, but at the same time this idea of little inclusive "scenes" (and DC in particular has always been really hung-up on this) is total bullshit, even if some of the music can be distinctive. Art is not a love-in, and it shouldn't really have to be about "identifying" w/people or "community.".


YES. Let's not pretend there aren't major downsides to cliquey, gossipy local scenes, especially if you've ever lived in one. At best, you should always have one foot in, one foot out..
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby Colonel Panic on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:28 pm

Hey wait, music's not dead... I'm actually listening to some right now as I type this.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby Maurice on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:30 pm

Colonel Panic wrote:Hey wait, music's not dead... I'm actually listening to some right now as I type this.


But now it's dead inside! Dude said so!
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby same on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:35 pm

Ugh. I hate that essay. He's all over the place. The unfocused, cloudy, half-baked rantings of a bitter indie rocker. The whole gentrification tangent? Save it for another essay. Or rather, don't. A million people have written about it already. Let pieces like this be written by 33-year-old wine-swilling humanities professors. They will be equally as vapid but at least better composed.

OrthodoxEaster wrote:You're giving Brooklyn WAY too much credit, man.


To be fair, he's just using Brooklyn as an icon for something that he thinks is happening everywhere. But yeah, I agree.

Stop complaining and do your thing. Or don't. Just stop complaining.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby Wood Goblin on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:01 pm

same wrote:Ugh. I hate that essay. He's all over the place. The unfocused, cloudy, half-baked rantings of a bitter indie rocker. The whole gentrification tangent? Save it for another essay. Or rather, don't. A million people have written about it already. Let pieces like this be written by 33-year-old wine-swilling humanities professors. They will be equally as vapid but at least better composed.

OrthodoxEaster wrote:You're giving Brooklyn WAY too much credit, man.


To be fair, he's just using Brooklyn as an icon for something that he thinks is happening everywhere. But yeah, I agree.

Stop complaining and do your thing. Or don't. Just stop complaining.


My feelings exactly. All of those well-composed sentences don't, in the end, add up to much of an argument. Also, almost all of the exciting Seattle music from the 90s was created by people who grew up there and started playing music in the 80s, when Seattle was an out-of-the-way backwater.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby don.chaney on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:57 pm

The ideas here are all valid (and like some of you here have pointed out, not new in many ways), but the direction he takes them is total bullshit - that everything is going to shit just cause things are different and this generation is faced with a new set of problems.

People are exposed to too much shit, there are some negative consequences - "talented artists are derailed" is one this guy points out. Not entirely sure about that, but it used to be it was hard to be exposed to shit, so a lot of people who he could now be regarding as "talented artists" or "indie rock legends" or "crucial" or other things music journalists say were never reached in the first place and now they're an accountant or a teacher or a dead person that never got much into music beyond a Beatles compilation they liked or whatever. So there.

The shit about:

Like accents, RMSes are disappearing. Sure, record stores and record labels are dead or living on borrowed time. Sure, smart clubowners can’t afford to book a show for an unknown, out-of-town band instead of an ’80s dance party.


I don't even know what the fuck that is. I understand stores and, uh, clubs having a hard-time - but people are still putting out music and people are listening right? And people are still putting on shows and people are going?

I mean, I know they are. Because if I go to any of the music blogs or forums I frequent that are dedicated to specific types of music, there'll be a thing about how this band is doing a show on Saturday at Elephant House (on 471 Broad Street, up the drive-way) and yes, they're gonna have a few copies of the split-7" in the back afterwards and another post about how these other two bands are doing a tour in these 11 different places, but Baltimore is TBA and some other guy from Baltimore will be like, "Oh, this place, this place, and maybe this place would probably be good, email me here" and another thread about how this label that everyone seems to like is so fucking lame and are you fucking kidding me and maybe another where everyone posts a picture of their cats.

People are exposed to music differently, people connect differently. Positives/Negatives. Me, I have plenty of music to listen to and shows to see and people to do those things with. The whole "scene" thing...isn't that sort of incidental?

Not sure what this guy's problem is. "Things have changed", why wouldn't they? "A lot of people are doing shitty stuff with music", yeah, why wouldn't they be?

Those "RMSes" of yesteryear that the author himself romanticizes (the good ones that we are all aware of, not the ones that didn't exist or were shit or were good but that we were never made aware of) were built on strong-minded, dedicated individuals. There are always going to be strong-minded, dedicated individuals in music because strong-minded, dedicated individuals by their very nature immune to the simple-minded bullshit that produces today's "tidal wave of generic, mushy, apolitical, featureless, Brooklynish music infiltrating the world’s stereos", same as the punk rockers in days of yore were to their own era's respective "tidal waves."

The title is funny though.

OrthodoxEaster wrote:
bleh. or rather the author of the article wrote:Early Gossip recordings [sound] like a better version of Muddy Waters and a better version of Black Flag.... In a piece called “Seinfeld Syndrome”—an essay that explains how the success of shows such as Seinfeld, Sex in the City, and The Sopranos helped gentrify New York—Svenonius

Um, no. I suppose it's all subjective, but that first point is just crazy.

Yeah there's sort of an air of "that" about, like:

RMSes differentiate Hill Country blues from Delta blues and New York hardcore from Orange County hardcore from harDCore. RMSes draw lines between KRS-One and MC Shan, Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker, Merseybeat and The Kinks, Satie and Wagner. RMSes are why I would almost never play a show that wasn’t all ages in D.C., but would only play Joe’s Bar in Marfa, Texas. RMSes make you think differently.

I think more then geographical location separated those two, dude.

More like...decades.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby geiginni on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:25 pm

don.chaney wrote:
RMSes differentiate Hill Country blues from Delta blues and New York hardcore from Orange County hardcore from harDCore. RMSes draw lines between KRS-One and MC Shan, Louis Armstrong and Charlie Parker, Merseybeat and The Kinks, Satie and Wagner. RMSes are why I would almost never play a show that wasn’t all ages in D.C., but would only play Joe’s Bar in Marfa, Texas. RMSes make you think differently.

I think more then geographical location separated those two, dude.

More like...decades.


Heh, no shit. Satie and Wagner sound different because they were from a different "scene" in a different "geographic location". Yep, that's all there is to it. I'm so glad his little perspective on "scene" has so many valid historical precedents.

I'm so glad I could give a fuck about any of this.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby don.chaney on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:35 pm

Fucking me wrote:I think more then geographical location separated those two, dude.

I don't even care enough to spell shit right.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby SecondEdition on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:39 pm

If you have to tell your readers what your essay is saying and not saying at the end, you're not making a particularly good argument, are you?
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby DrAwkward on Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:35 pm

Mason wrote:
154 wrote:'Regional' will have a different meaning though. Your aesthetic 'brother band' might be someone from eastern Europe with an EP under their belt.


http://www.prfbbq.com/


Yes.

I'm part of an awesome "regional" scene whenever i log onto this forum.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby Justin Foley on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:33 pm

What, his thesis or the essay itself?

A) The essay itself, was way too self-referential to communicate any thesis.

B) The thesis ... see A).

Bleh, dude, why did you post that shit?

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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby tarblackvomit on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:41 pm

When I played in Brooklyn the Trash Bar tried to pull that nonsense about how they booked six disparate acts, and weren't able to count enough heads through the door during the time immediately preceding my band's set so sorry, we can't pay you. Never mind that their production went way behind schedule, and our friends had to wait around until nearly 2am to see us, when we were supposed to go on at like 11 or something. Anyway we went back the next day and our singer drank enough whiskey to build up the courage to demand the $50 we had been guaranteed. (yes, we're huge pussies) I do believe the club owner conceded payment.

A few days before that we had played Pianos with some other totally random acts that some shithead threw together for no reason other than to try to lure as many people in the door as possible. The entire experience of both those shows reeked of some insidious perversion of LA's infamous "pay to play" scam.

After those shows we played a couple of totally bogus ones in Albany, but at least the people in that town were friendly, albeit in a creepily incompetent way.

I guess what I'm trying to say, from a totally different angle than the article, is: fuck New York.
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Re: C/NC: How the Brooklynization of culture killed music

Postby leland_yee on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:46 pm

tl;dr
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