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"Punching" a Nazi

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Video of Richard Spencer being "assaulted"

Something to be celebrated
58
43%
Something to be condemned
15
11%
Something to be suspicious about
11
8%
Should have punched him harder
45
33%
Who cares, that was yesterday or whatever
6
4%
 
Total votes : 135

Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby RSMurphy on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:19 pm

Madman Munt wrote:I wouldn't expect punching someone would change their deeply held beliefs. And there's a good chance it would just reinforce them.

Think about it, how much punching would it take to make you change your mind?


I don't think the punch is meant to be used as a learning tool in this respect. Sometimes a punch is just a punch.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby goatlord on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:24 pm

RSMurphy wrote:
Madman Munt wrote:I wouldn't expect punching someone would change their deeply held beliefs. And there's a good chance it would just reinforce them.

Think about it, how much punching would it take to make you change your mind?


I don't think the punch is meant to be used as a learning tool in this respect. Sometimes a punch is just a punch.


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As I previously said, punching a Nazi has more to do with punching a douchebag being a douchebag and trying to hurt people, and less with a dialectical lesson.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby RSMurphy on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:26 pm

^ SALUT!
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby blackmarket on Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:36 pm

Madman Munt wrote:I wouldn't expect punching someone would change their deeply held beliefs. And there's a good chance it would just reinforce them.

Think about it, how much punching would it take to make you change your mind?


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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:41 pm

RSMurphy wrote:
Anthony (no relation) Flack wrote:It's pretty well never going to be the Nazis who do the constructive thing, no.


I understand. That's why we - or people who are more pugilistic than myself - punch them!


It's exactly what they want. It helps their side. Spencer himself has, by now, talked at length about how much it helped him. That's why he worked so hard to get that video out there. He was out there promoting it like Tom Cruise with a new movie to sell.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Madman Munt on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:01 pm

goatlord wrote:As I previously said, punching a Nazi has more to do with punching a douchebag being a douchebag and trying to hurt people, and less with a dialectical lesson.


Fine. I just wanted to eliminate that reason (reforming the Nazi in some way) from the conversation.

Now, for me, punching a Nazi because they deserve to be punched, and I agree they do deserve it, is not a good reason. Punch them because it could reduce overt displays of Nazism in your neighbourhood; that's something we can talk about.

Spencer seems to me like an idiot whose whole raison d'être is to provoke people and be punched. I can't see how obliging him any more is going to help things.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:03 pm

Seeing that doofus with the WHITE LIVES MATTER TOO MUCH sign again just reminds me of how staged the whole fucking thing still looks to me, so I still think that was the plan from the beginning, but even assuming the person doing the punching wasn't actively TRYING to help him, the reaction to the video was exactly what he wanted and has worked out perfectly for him.

But we've been over this.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby RSMurphy on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:11 pm

Anthony Flack wrote: exactly what he wanted and has worked out perfectly for him.

But we've been over this.


But we haven't been over THIS!

I'm so sorry.


RSMurphy wrote: a punch is just a punch


sidebar: I've had this song stuck in my head since posting the above. This is not a bad thing.

phpBB [media]


DO IT THEN, LUTHER
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby blackmarket on Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:59 pm

Anthony Flack wrote:
RSMurphy wrote:
Anthony (no relation) Flack wrote:It's pretty well never going to be the Nazis who do the constructive thing, no.


I understand. That's why we - or people who are more pugilistic than myself - punch them!


Spencer himself has, by now, talked at length about how much it helped him.


And you believe the sales pitch. Naziism was in ascendance in this country long before the punch happened.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby kokorodoko on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:05 pm

blackmarket wrote:
Anthony Flack wrote:Spencer himself has, by now, talked at length about how much it helped him.


And you believe the sales pitch. Naziism was in ascendance in this country long before the punch happened.

blackmarket has a point. I'd like to see some more proof than simply Spencer himself saying so.

One reason to be skeptical is that I have heard numerous people claim that "we/they support the far right because political correctness is too extreme" and similar things in that vein. Shifting resposibility away from themselves is what they have have been doing since the beginning.
And the image of leftist activists in the minds of many people was already one of violent hooligans, whether punching nazis or not, so why would this be the catastrophe image-wise that is supposedly is?
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Anthony Flack on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:29 pm

blackmarket wrote:And you believe the sales pitch.


The sales pitch was please don't spread this video around. Please don't make it a meme. Hey everybody! Don't make this a meme ok? I'm so embarrassed! I'd better go be interviewed by the Guardian so I can ask all their readers to please not spread this video around and make it a meme. Actually, just to be safe I'd better go on an interview tour of the international media so I can tell the entire world to please not make this a meme.

The ongoing sales pitch is I'm just a peaceful guy trying to have a calm discussion about ideas while the VIOLENT LEFT act to shut down free speech.

It HAS been great publicity for Spencer. Fabulous publicity. Pure gold. I couldn't even FIND the original clip on ABC Australia's web site because the search function only goes back five pages and that only covers Richard Spencer articles for the last couple of months.

Saying "Nazis were already in ascendency" and "right wingers already believed the left was violent" is just waving away the very obvious ways that stunts like this contribute to reinforcing that message and making the situation even worse.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Angus Jung on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:35 pm

Punch the shit out of Nazis.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Boombats on Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:38 pm

It wasn't the punch that was the problem: it was the camera. People like Spencer need to be taken into a dark alley for a private boot party.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby kokorodoko on Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:52 pm

Anthony Flack wrote:Saying "Nazis were already in ascendency" and "right wingers already believed the left was violent" is just waving away the very obvious ways that stunts like this contribute to reinforcing that message and making the situation even worse.

Maybe you're right. I'm mostly thinking out loud. I'll leave this thread again.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby RSMurphy on Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:00 pm

People leaving the thread and/or hesitating on posting for fear of being misunderstood isn't constructive or healthy, and to that end neither are attempts to squash communication or freeze people out. I hope I haven't contributed to the latter. I'd also be remiss if I didn't state that I didn't plan on framing my posts in a black/white narrative, so to speak. I'm fully aware that Nazis, racists, nationalists, etc. are anti anyone who isn't white, and will defend in voice and action your right to exist free from harm and belittlement.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby kokorodoko on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:22 am

Nah, that's not it. I just don't feel I have anything to add. I still can't decide what I think about this, so it feels like I'm writing just to write.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby blackmarket on Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:38 am

Anthony Flack wrote:Saying "Nazis were already in ascendency" and "right wingers already believed the left was violent" is just waving away the very obvious ways that stunts like this contribute to reinforcing that message and making the situation even worse.


I am unconvinced. There isn't a whole lot of evidence to suggest that Spencer getting punched did much advance White nationalism in the U.S. Spencer was already being courted and interviewed by major news outlets. That is how he was identified.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby El Protoolio on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:20 am

blackmarket wrote:
Anthony Flack wrote:Saying "Nazis were already in ascendency" and "right wingers already believed the left was violent" is just waving away the very obvious ways that stunts like this contribute to reinforcing that message and making the situation even worse.


I am unconvinced. There isn't a whole lot of evidence to suggest that Spencer getting punched did much advance White nationalism in the U.S. Spencer was already being courted and interviewed by major news outlets. That is how he was identified.


It shouldn’t convince you because it isn’t convincing. It’s an excuse to do nothing.
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby jimmy two hands on Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:53 pm

I think it was the reasoned discourse what did it.

https://mic.com/articles/188397/richard ... .mdGj3ZZY2
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Re: "Punching" a Nazi

Postby Angus Jung on Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:08 pm

jimmy two hands wrote:I think it was the reasoned discourse what did it.

https://mic.com/articles/188397/richard ... .mdGj3ZZY2

I think it might have to do with embarrassment over having nobody show up at his shit.

His recent appearance at Michigan State drew a reported three dozen attendees. I think that number is extremely charitable.

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