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Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:57 am

kokorodoko wrote:Hm, ok. What I wonder then is: What are the other ways that the cause of oppression is commonly conceived? The conceptions in other words, that you don't agree with, and how is your view different? In what ways would intolerance be seen as coming from the side of the oppressed, as opposed to the oppressor, in this case?


I think when people freak out about language, in particular, it's a sign that they've lost the plot. Language is important, but it's the force behind the language that is more important. The 'powers' of language are critically lauded in academia, but a lot of that really has to do with self-referentiality, and how academia itself is built on language. To start seeing the world in these terms is very, very common, and i think is to give oneself over to elitist word games. What's really important is the space opened between language and sensory experience, and how wide that space is at any given moment, and who is manipulating that distance.

This even goes for law. Conversations about legal language are extremely important, but as is often the case in legal language, it's about making language flexible enough so you can make pizza a vegetable or whatever. It's about taking advantage of the disconnect between how people perceive things by their senses and how people talk about them. And for those who are MOST powerful, they will find a way to change language to their ends come hell or high water.

(this is why 'intersectionality' and hipster irony have such staying power in our society - they take advantage of things you sense but can barely ever define. this is the nature of power, the avant garde, and it's extremely ugly but it's the way it is)

If discussions have shifted from material, physical considerations in the last 40 years, can you give some examples of this? How is today different from then?


I mean I think the decline of unions, increasing faith in the market, over-reliance on meeting data points all speak to the abstracting of things, trying to hit the best 'overall' points without there being a kind of dialogue between organizors and organized. And, once again, I think dialogue-heavy definitions of gender and feminism are another example of this. There is an utter lack of bargaining power of the workforce and the oppressed in having any kind of dialogue with their bosses, who will call them racist / sexist, say they have science on their side, come up with any abstract theories that they can to support their points, so at this point the workforce is utterly subject to whatever kind of language / linguistic games higher-ups want to subject them to. Many were alive when times were different, so Peterson is a clumsy example of their trying to fight back.

I'm not trying to sound alt-righty, I actually think that a benign kind of regulation is a good thing when you're stuck in a system like America's where you have blatant abuses of power like the electoral college and tax havens and whatnot, but i don't lie to myself here. All of this identity politics, the humanities, etc is focused on production. People in academia NEED to keep this in mind, in fact, given the dismal state of the job market. I see my peers would rather advocate for no platforming and stuff like that, I've decided to take a different route.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:13 am

For example, when FM blackmarket says the following:

blackmarket wrote:
GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:Feminism strives for equality of the sexes. It has nothing to do with hatred of one thing or another or even bodies for that matter.


Thank you for telling me, a woman what feminism is i appreciate it.


You seem to be confused, so no problem.


This is someone trying to control the space in which I talk about what my experience is, or the way I've perceived my experience, with a kind of verbal definition. His belief that feminism has nothing to do with bodies - and stating it DEFINITIVELY AS SUCH, refusing to even consider the alternative for who knows what reason - runs entirely counter to my experience / my learning, but he's telling me that I'm confused. He is, in other words, trying to control the distance between the accumulation of my experiences and the words i use.

This is, in general, the way bullies tend to try to control situations, and this is why the Jordan Petersons of the world think liberals are bullies when trying to control discourse - because people who have certain definitions will argue against other people's actual lived experiences, or at least how they've registered these experiences (and then they'll be ironic and insist that we shut up and listen to OTHER PEOPLE'S experiences, which is good but they're always only certain people's voices, etc... these are language games, 85% of the time).

In contrast, actively questioning me, like kokodorko has in this thread, is a way of making one change one's mind. It tends to be more productive, overall.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby blackmarket on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:21 am

GrantMcNeilly wrote:For example, when FM blackmarket says the following:

blackmarket wrote:
GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:Feminism strives for equality of the sexes. It has nothing to do with hatred of one thing or another or even bodies for that matter.


Thank you for telling me, a woman what feminism is i appreciate it.


You seem to be confused, so no problem.


This is someone trying to control the space in which I talk about what my experience is


Hold up! Wait a minute...

If you are going to quote me, at least show some honesty. Quote my words with context. I am not trying to control any space. You wrote something fucked up and weird. I respond with a clarifying post.

blackmarket wrote:
GrantMcNeilly wrote:my own personal definition of feminism has always been defined as male discomfort / hatred for the female physical body


Feminism strives for equality of the sexes. It has nothing to do with hatred of one thing or another or even bodies for that matter.


Feminism has always been defined as male discomfort / hatred for the female physical body.

What you are saying here is that Feminism is rooted in some sort of male discomfort. You are saying that feminists carry with them some sort a hated of the female body. Maybe English is not your primary language. If so, cool. Given that you are defending a proponent of rape culture and then post the nonsense above - can you understand why I pulled your that quote and responded?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:28 am

blackmarket wrote:What you are saying here is that Feminism is rooted in some sort of male discomfort. You are saying that feminists carry with them some sort a hated of the female body. Maybe English is not your primary language. If so, cool. Given that you are defending a proponent of rape culture and then post the nonsense above - can you understand why I pulled your that quote and responded?


You're proving my point. I was somewhat vague with my language, you felt you had to say something and so you decided to correct me rather than take my point, which is pretty obvious ('as' should have been 'by' - whoops!). The pedantic elements of being correct with language matter more to you than taking the obvious point, or even nicely asking to clarify. You don't think you have to be nice, but you're a bully, so that shouldn't be a surprise.

I've corrected myself, which I had to, but you continue to be insulting (see the bolded words), to both myself and Riff Magnum and others. This proves my point, here. Be a little bit careless with language and people will jump on you. jesus christ, man...

also, 'given that i'm defending a proponent of rape culture'? What the hell are you talking about? You will need to provide evidence for that because you entirely pulled that out of your ass. You should not try to correct people's language without having basic reading comprehension skills.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby blackmarket on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:43 am

GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:What you are saying here is that Feminism is rooted in some sort of male discomfort. You are saying that feminists carry with them some sort a hated of the female body. Maybe English is not your primary language. If so, cool. Given that you are defending a proponent of rape culture and then post the nonsense above - can you understand why I pulled your that quote and responded?


You're proving my point. I was somewhat vague with my language, you felt you had to say something and so you decided to correct me rather than take my point, which is pretty obvious ('as' should have been 'by' - whoops!).


What you wrote wasn't vague at all. It was pointed. And are we supposed to be mind readers? People have all sorts of misconceptions of what Feminism is, women included. You could have said it was a typo...instead you seem to content to frame yourself (and Peterson) as someone who is being continually victimized.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:46 am

blackmarket wrote:
GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:What you are saying here is that Feminism is rooted in some sort of male discomfort. You are saying that feminists carry with them some sort a hated of the female body. Maybe English is not your primary language. If so, cool. Given that you are defending a proponent of rape culture and then post the nonsense above - can you understand why I pulled your that quote and responded?


You're proving my point. I was somewhat vague with my language, you felt you had to say something and so you decided to correct me rather than take my point, which is pretty obvious ('as' should have been 'by' - whoops!).


What you wrote wasn't vague at all. It was pointed. And are we supposed to be mind readers? People have all sorts of misconceptions of what Feminism is, women included. You could have said it was a typo...instead you seem to content to frame yourself (and Peterson) as someone who is being continually victimized.


I used 'as' when I should have used 'by', as I've already clarified above. It was 'pointed'? Please - taken in context it really isn't that hard to see what i wanted to say. You're a tightwad about language so you jumped on something to sound righteous, and when you think when you have the moral high ground you have the right to rudely yell at people which is the reason why people who would otherwise agree with you, or potentially might, think you're an example of 'the problem'.

I frame myself as victimized? No dude, you've been a bullying asshole to multiple people in this thread. I frame Peterson as victimized? where?!?! Please quote me where I frame Peterson as victimized, the man scares the shit out of me! That thing about him talking about makeup was like in the running for one of the most disturbing things i've seen all year. If this is what you get from what i've written, again, please do not tell me that I am not communicating well because you have difficulty understanding things. Peterson is a sack of garbage.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby blackmarket on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:57 am

GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:
GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:What you are saying here is that Feminism is rooted in some sort of male discomfort. You are saying that feminists carry with them some sort a hated of the female body. Maybe English is not your primary language. If so, cool. Given that you are defending a proponent of rape culture and then post the nonsense above - can you understand why I pulled your that quote and responded?


You're proving my point. I was somewhat vague with my language, you felt you had to say something and so you decided to correct me rather than take my point, which is pretty obvious ('as' should have been 'by' - whoops!).


What you wrote wasn't vague at all. It was pointed. And are we supposed to be mind readers? People have all sorts of misconceptions of what Feminism is, women included. You could have said it was a typo...instead you seem to content to frame yourself (and Peterson) as someone who is being continually victimized.


I used 'as' when I should have used 'by', as I've already clarified above.


Awesome, yeah, great. Finally, after nearly a week and three pages of posts later, we get it. You clarified what you wrote. And we are all supposed to have understood your position from the get go. What was your response at the time? An acknowledgement of the typo? A clarification of what you wrote? No.

GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:
GrantMcNeilly wrote:my own personal definition of feminism has always been defined as male discomfort / hatred for the female physical body


Feminism strives for equality of the sexes. It has nothing to do with hatred of one thing or another or even bodies for that matter.


Thank you for telling me, a woman, what feminism is i appreciate it.


:roll:
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:01 am

blackmarket wrote:Awesome, yeah, great. Finally, after nearly a week and three pages of posts later, we get it. You clarified what you wrote. And we are all supposed to have understood your position from the get go. What was your response at the time? An acknowledgement of the typo? A clarification of what you wrote? No.


I take it you didn't see this then, um, three pages back.

GrantMcNeilly wrote:Do you not get it? I think that the primary barrier between equality of the sexes (feminism) is the materiality of the female body. In fact, I think the resistance to thinking it's about bodies is just a sign of the degradation of the material in all respects that has happened over the last 40 years. Quit telling me what the definition of feminism is as if i haven't read all the same shit you have.


Makes sense because you don't seem like you like to read things that don't agree with your narrative. Kind of like why you haven't shown me where i defended peterson anywhere. And even saying that I've done so is something that I kind of think I deserve an apology for, actually. Saying I'm defending a proponent of rape culture. You really shouldn't go around saying things you have no evidence for at all. But it is clear you are on some kind of power trip...

blackmarket wrote::roll:


No, you're not trying to control the limits of the discourse here, where could i possibly have gotten that idea.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby blackmarket on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:15 am

GrantMcNeilly wrote:
blackmarket wrote:Awesome, yeah, great. Finally, after nearly a week and three pages of posts later, we get it. You clarified what you wrote. And we are all supposed to have understood your position from the get go. What was your response at the time? An acknowledgement of the typo? A clarification of what you wrote? No.


I take it you didn't see this then, um, three pages back.

GrantMcNeilly wrote:Do you not get it? I think that the primary barrier between equality of the sexes (feminism) is the materiality of the female body. In fact, I think the resistance to thinking it's about bodies is just a sign of the degradation of the material in all respects that has happened over the last 40 years. Quit telling me what the definition of feminism is as if i haven't read all the same shit you have.


Makes sense because you don't seem like you like to read things that don't agree with your narrative. Kind of like why you haven't shown me where i defended peterson anywhere. And even saying that I've done so is something that I kind of think I deserve an apology for, actually. Saying I'm defending a proponent of rape culture. You really shouldn't go around saying things you have no evidence for at all. But it is clear you are on some kind of power trip...


Yeah, I read that. You came off as someone who is totally confused and didn't know what the fuck they were talking about.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:16 am

blackmarket wrote:Yeah, I read that. You came off as someone who is totally confused and didn't know what the fuck they were talking about.


Are you going to show me where I defended Peterson or continue to just insult me? (btw i know the answer to that, since i never, ever 'framed' him as a victim you nutcase)

Also, why are you continuing to just insult me? What are you getting out of this? If I'm so confused why won't you mansplain to me, please, just what was confusing to you? Because you just sound like an asshole (and I KNOW i'm not the only one who thinks that here, fyi)
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Boombats on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:20 am

GrantMcNeilly might be the only person in this thread who knows what the fuck they're talking about, myself included.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:21 am

Boombats wrote:GrantMcNeilly might be the only person in this thread who knows what the fuck they're talking about, myself included.


It's cool, he's a dude, he's "rational", the knightly defender of the *real* feminists. We women are so mixed up!

He also likes making stuff up when he has 0 ground to stand on but maybe if he just keeps avoiding that he hopes i'll forget about it. Evidently i'm playing the victim if i point out that i'm being, um, victimized.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyways, FM Kokodoroko, you can see above what happens when people who thing language is all powerful get their panties in a twist. A vivid example, maybe.

kokodoroko wrote:In what ways would intolerance be seen as coming from the side of the oppressed, as opposed to the oppressor, in this case?


For example, if they disagree with the oppressor's definition of what they are, for example, if they 'misunderstand', they'll be told they're confused and don't know what they're talking about, of not knowing themselves or what's good for them, or even worse accused of being supporters of rape culture with no evidence. Just one example
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby kokorodoko on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:19 pm

GrantMcNeilly wrote:For example, if they disagree with the oppressor's definition of what they are, for example, if they 'misunderstand', they'll be told they're confused and don't know what they're talking about, of not knowing themselves or what's good for them, or even worse accused of being supporters of rape culture with no evidence. Just one example

But isn't this something that "postmodern" radicalism is regularly criticized for: That it makes things much too particular, much too reliant upon individual experience and testimony, prohibiting any kind of generalization - thus making powerful action impossible, since it is always up to the individual whether they feel oppressed or not, and so on?

I am not saying I agree with all of that critique, because I think that generalizing analyses pushing aside individual experiences is and was a problem. And maybe you do not either, I just figured from how you were talking earlier about the state of present feminist discourse. Maybe this doesn't fit in there though.

I'll reply to the other post later.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:39 pm

kokorodoko wrote:But isn't this something that "postmodern" radicalism is regularly criticized for: That it makes things much too particular, much too reliant upon individual experience and testimony, prohibiting any kind of generalization - thus making powerful action impossible, since it is always up to the individual whether they feel oppressed or not, and so on?


I'm not sure, in this case, that materiality is something that is completely anecdotal on my part. I mean, I've come to my conclusion not just because of my personal experiences / observations, but through studying quite a bit about the history of women and the state of women around the world and how their bodies tend to be treated in different places. I think materialism is as stable an authority as any to base conclusions on - certainly more stable than language, actually.

Or if you mean the individual example of blackmarket mansplaining, again, I think he's an exemplar of a pattern. This is someone who has a set definition and anyone, man or woman, who disagrees with that set definition is not only wrong but "supporting thing enemy" - "framing" support for Peterson. Not only are people who disagree with him wrong, they need to be neutralized as 'confused''. This is someone for whom language inherently has ALL the force, not other people, so heaven forbid you're unclear (and he does this all while personally trying to delimit the parameters of the conversation, but he doesn't seem to realize he's doing it, or at least won't own up to it - this is that 'replication of power structures' thing that critical theorists always talk about i guess, ha).
And this is the place where overly pedantic people become really misguided ("confused", heehee). Language is no longer something human, but something natural - as natural as humans and thus as autonomous - and so an integral locus of force in systems of power, rather than tools being manipulated by powerful people (these 'systemic' arguments are quite popular in academia, and they're mostly true but also very, very convenient). Philosophically, this argument can be supported, but in practice, in the real world, language very often has some kind of definite force behind it (i don't mean a concept, or a set definition, but a force, an intention - a delimiting of the parameters for the definition of the word). Rousseau said it best in 'Emile' (and yes, there's considerable irony in his writing this down so eloquently, which he knew about and played with because, you know, he was Rousseau): "Accentuation is the soul of speech. it gives speech sentiment and truth. Accentuation lies less than the word does. This is perhaps why well-brought-up people fear it so much."


I am not saying I agree with all of that critique, because I think that generalizing analyses pushing aside individual experiences is and was a problem. And maybe you do not either, I just figured from how you were talking earlier about the state of present feminist discourse. Maybe this doesn't fit in there though.



I don't think the problem has to do with 'general' or 'particular', although that's part of it, perhaps. I think the real issue is the opportunity that powerful people take to use everything in their arsenal to compete with each other and keep others down. They can use anecdotes, they can use generalities, etc, and as long as they have force they can get away with it. I think when Peterson and his supporters think there is relativism, that there are no longer any rules, they don't *really* believe that - they just recognize that the power at work isn't regulated according to their liking. They don't think it's "fair". It's a politics of resentment.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby AdamN on Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Current Affairs just did a thing.

The Intellectual We Deserve

Jordan Peterson’s popularity is the sign of a deeply impoverished political and intellectual landscape…

If you want to appear very profound and convince people to take you seriously, but have nothing of value to say, there is a tried and tested method. First, take some extremely obvious platitude or truism. Make sure it actually does contain some insight, though it can be rather vague. Something like “if you’re too conciliatory, you will sometimes get taken advantage of” or “many moral values are similar across human societies.” Then, try to restate your platitude using as many words as possible, as unintelligibly as possible, while never repeating yourself exactly. Use highly technical language drawn from many different academic disciplines, so that no one person will ever have adequate training to fully evaluate your work. Construct elaborate theories with many parts. Draw diagrams. Use italics liberally to indicate that you are using words in a highly specific and idiosyncratic sense. Never say anything too specific, and if you do, qualify it heavily so that you can always insist you meant the opposite. Then evangelize: speak as confidently as possible, as if you are sharing God’s own truth. Accept no criticisms: insist that any skeptic has either misinterpreted you or has actually already admitted that you are correct. Talk as much as possible and listen as little as possible. Follow these steps, and your success will be assured. (It does help if you are male and Caucasian.)

Jordan Peterson appears very profound and has convinced many people to take him seriously. Yet he has almost nothing of value to say. This should be obvious to anyone who has spent even a few moments critically examining his writings and speeches, which are comically befuddled, pompous, and ignorant. They are half nonsense, half banality. In a reasonable world, Peterson would be seen as the kind of tedious crackpot that one hopes not to get seated next to on a train.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Anthony Flack on Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:23 am

The world’s leading newspapers have declared him one of the most important living thinkers. The Times says his “message is overwhelmingly vital,” and a Guardian columnist grudgingly admits that Peterson “deserves to be taken seriously.” David Brooks thinks Peterson might be “the most influential public intellectual in the Western world right now.” He has been called “the deepest, clearest voice of conservative thought in the world today” a man whose work “should make him famous for the ages.” Malcolm Gladwell calls him “a wonderful psychologist.” And it’s not just members of the popular press that have conceded Peterson’s importance: the chair of the Harvard psychology department praised his magnum opus Maps of Meaning as “brilliant” and “beautiful.” Zachary Slayback of the Foundation for Economic Education wonders how any serious person could possibly write off Peterson, saying that “even the most anti-Peterson intellectual should be able to admit that his project is a net-good.”


The feeling I get when I read this paragraph is like a microcosm of the feelings I have towards most things going on in the world today. I need to stop grinding my teeth, it's a bad habit.

Anyway, that was a good takedown. I need to read things like that occasionally to feel like there are still pockets of sanity out there. I hope it is shared a billion times, and helps to bring us closer to a world where everybody stops treating this clown like he's a great intellectual already.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby pldms on Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:49 am

AdamN wrote:Current Affairs just did a thing.

The Intellectual We Deserve

Solid gold.

So it sounds like he's using many of the same tricks certain French public intellectuals have been using for decades: a heady mix of psychoanalysis, idiomatic technical / obscure terminology, and bold pronouncements that are defended in much weaker, often vacuous, forms.

If he's sold that the alt-right he has a genius of sorts.

Image
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Edit: psychoanalysis not psychotherapy dummy
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby sulfur)addict on Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:34 am

I don't think he's as convincing a "thinker" as Ayn Rand and I don't see people going as rabid over his "ideology," so his presence feels more like a nuisance than a threat. She offered a Herculean idea of freedom that a youth could conceivably get swept up in, Peterson is just a troll.

I don't believe people are reading this shit. And if they actually are and they're gonna cite a self-help book, I'm just gonna keep laughing.

It's like when someone posts a monologue from a shitty news program - I know a lot of people take it seriously, and that just makes it even funnier. I didn't know Monty Python's Incredibly Silly Party (or whatever it was) swung to the right. Roosh V with a post-grad diploma wondering why the lesbian humanities professor won't go out with him. In Canada!
Kerouacian as fuck.

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby goatlord on Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:45 am

What I really dislike about Jordan Peterson is his insincerity. I saw a bunch of his videos, after reading all the hullaballoo in this thread, and It's was very clear that he was a right-wing creep with serious anger business and a bit of a wanker, in the masturbation sense of the word. But he just couldn't say anything straight, there were so many fucking dog whistles that my ears were bleeding.

I just can't understand the reclutancy of the far-right to say what THEY REALLY want to say. Talk about being politically correct! Why don't you say that you don't trust muslims, trans are not real, fuck the taxes let me steal whatever the fuck I want (There are a couple of "hahaha like taxes, ya know?" jokes on his videos, followed by nothing), men should be men and all that crap. JUST SAY IT, don't dance around it like a fucking coward.

Also, he is like the least socratic philosopher I know of. He doesn't question absolutely any of the places were he comes from. He says that things comes from "logic", but really doesn't question what logic is, if it's something social or whatever, it just... puf, it's there, it's true, I said it very seriously, so, you know, you loose.

It just angers me so much how philosophically hipocrital these guys are. They don't own up to what they say, they want to say shit and hide it so they don't get caught, like little fucking children. Even fucking Alex Jones is a con-man of this kind, he is an overt fucking racist but doesn't want to tell you that he wants you to buy his fucking products. Also, the real "men" that take their destiny in their hands yadda yadda are real man-babies when you strip a bit of their fucking confidence away. Fuck real "men".
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:49 am

pldms wrote:
AdamN wrote:Current Affairs just did a thing.

The Intellectual We Deserve

Solid gold.

So it sounds like he's using many of the same tricks certain French public intellectuals have been using for decades: a heady mix of psychotherapy, idiomatic technical / obscure terminology, and bold pronouncements that are defended in much weaker, often vacuous, forms.

If he's sold that the alt-right he has a genius of sorts.

Image
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That is exactly what he's doing, it's just frustrating because a lot of those French thinkers have some interesting thoughts behind them, while Peterson is pretty much intellectually vacuous (but of course that's kind of the point).

I really think that all of this is just a kind of rage towards obscurantist language and elitism, but this is an uphill battle because elitism / obscurantism / all signs of luxury are sort of the ways our economy is run, right? So all of this is being done with the express purpose of destabilizing things and flaunting resentment, but it has no end-goal except scary violence. The Current Affairs article is great, but he's being optimistic if he thinks that Peterson is trying to be apolitical and detached (given what i know about the writer of that piece i'm almost sure it's calculatedly and willfully optimistic, in fact); if anything Peterson is extraordinarily confrontational and dangerous in just allowing people to get worked up about things that they can't change without harming people weaker than they are. That can cause a LOT of chaos on the ground.
TheMilford wrote: We're talking about TV here, not a Slint record or Albert Camus....
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