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your father

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your dad: crap or not crap?

CRAP
30
27%
NOT CRAP
83
73%
 
Total votes : 113

Re: your father

Postby enframed on Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:25 pm

When I left my first wife he said to me "So what are you gonna do? You can go anywhere, start over." He seemed perplexed when I mentioned that I had an eight year-old son (his grandson) and that there was no "starting over" and I could not go "anywhere."

He once said, in front of his wife, my son, my brother and half-sister, that if he could do it again he'd never have kids. Said it as though we were just acquaintances over for dinner. Like it never occurred why that might upset any one of us.

I called him yesterday and he was in the middle of a poker tournament. Said he'd talk to me soon.

He spent his most of his adult life defending insurance companies (trying to prevent the company from having to pay for someone's work-related injury) in court so I'm pretty sure there's very little humanity left in him.

Overall he's crap, but gets some waffles for showing me how not to be a dad.
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Re: your father

Postby jimmy spako on Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:56 pm

tocharian wrote:My relationship with my dad is basically a chronicle of heartbreak. Getting me really excited about something and then never following through. Sure I'll come visit you in New Mexico. We'll do a road trip and then go see your cousins. Sure I'll come to Chicago. We'll go see the Cubs play the Orioles. Sure I'll come out to California.

Never happens. Never will.

I went to see my dad last Christmas. Just when it was time for him to drive me to the airport my stepmother orders him to go walk the dog. I get to my plane just as it's boarding. "Dad," I text, "Sorry, but I am not less important than the family dog."

I haven't really made much of an effort since then. I'm pretty much done with my immediate family. My therapist told me I should make new parents. Good advice.


my heart goes out to you, tocharian.

my dad does this kind of stuff all the time: i come half way around the world to see him (he never visits me), take two of my four family weeks to see him, hang out at his place of work the whole time because he doesn't take off, & when he finally takes a day off after i make it clear over & over that it would be cool to set off together for a day & do something, we stop in to the little small-town aquarium that he runs anyway to make sure everything is ok, which inevitably turns in to an extended stay when some random family presses their faces up against the windows outside of opening hours or in the off season & he is compelled to open the place up & give them a tour for as long as they would like to stay. he is such a slave to acknowledgement that he will put any random stranger above me any time.

anyways, your therapist is spot on: move on & get what you need elsewhere.
i wish you the best of luck.
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Re: your father

Postby tocharian on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:07 pm

Thanks Jimmy Sparko.

enframed wrote:He once said, in front of his wife, my son, my brother and half-sister, that if he could do it again he'd never have kids. Said it as though we were just acquaintances over for dinner. Like it never occurred why that might upset any one of us.

Sorry enframed, but I think this is more or less blanket permission to be done with this guy. Jesus.

I never understood how awful it is for parents to feel as though they can't be bothered to spare any empathy for their kids until I began working with kids. Scheduling and paying for shit and just showing some basic respect for your child's feelings are very different things. Culturally, I'm still not sure people get this.

Until I allowed myself to flat out reject this kind of treatment… which, unfortunately, also meant rejecting these people… I always felt on some level I deserved it or it was my job to convince my parents I was worthy of having my feelings respected.

Bullshit.

I'm so much happier not feeling like I need to persuade anyone, parents included, to please exercise basic human decency.
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Re: your father

Postby cowboyhero on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:05 am

My father decided, sometime during my middle school years, that he wasn't going to talk to me anymore. He basically turned into a golem that only animates itself once every six months to yell at me for whatever it was I did wrong at that particular time. It got worse as I got older and occasionally erupted into physical violence. I tried for years and years to get him to acknowledge me in any sort of positive fashion but finally gave up. We don't speak any more and I'm going to keep it that way. It's liberating and wonderful. Can't say that I've ever been happier in my life. He's a pointless suburban bitch and I'm finally free of the godawful millstone that is trying to earn his approval.

My mom's a piece of shit too.
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Re: your father

Postby Mason on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:38 am

Was always a great provider. Always made time for the family, always played catch with me and drove me to baseball practice. Directly responsible for my sense of humour (and my musicality, though that skipped a generation). On paper, pretty great.

My dad is a thoroughly awful person. Emotionally abusive and slowly getting more comfortable with the physical kind, yet a teetotaller. Brilliant but poorly-read and incurious, which amounted to a giant ego predicated on being smarter than others and an inability to recognize when he wasn't. Still working at the TV station he started cleaning or whatever at age 16, yet convinced no one is more worldly.

I kept a 90 average through high school, didn't drink or smoke once, never questioned his superiority or otherwise gave him grief, yet every two or three days throughout high school, he'd find an excuse to tell me, from the top of his lungs as his face flushed, "You think you know everything, but you know nothing." Just as often, over something like a book left in the living room or a sweater on the floor of my bedroom, would come, "You are the laziest human being on the face of the earth." Nearer the end of my teens, he tried physically throwing me out of the house, permanently, because I hadn't coiled up our garden hose properly the last few times I used it.

No one spoke to him on Father's Day.
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Re: your father

Postby BClark on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:13 am

Mason wrote:Was always a great provider. Always made time for the family, always played catch with me and drove me to baseball practice. Directly responsible for my sense of humour (and my musicality, though that skipped a generation). On paper, pretty great.

My dad is a thoroughly awful person. Emotionally abusive and slowly getting more comfortable with the physical kind, yet a teetotaller. Brilliant but poorly-read and incurious, which amounted to a giant ego predicated on being smarter than others and an inability to recognize when he wasn't. Still working at the TV station he started cleaning or whatever at age 16, yet convinced no one is more worldly.

I kept a 90 average through high school, didn't drink or smoke once, never questioned his superiority or otherwise gave him grief, yet every two or three days throughout high school, he'd find an excuse to tell me, from the top of his lungs as his face flushed, "You think you know everything, but you know nothing." Just as often, over something like a book left in the living room or a sweater on the floor of my bedroom, would come, "You are the laziest human being on the face of the earth." Nearer the end of my teens, he tried physically throwing me out of the house, permanently, because I hadn't coiled up our garden hose properly the last few times I used it.

No one spoke to him on Father's Day.

damn. in a way, much of this sounds curiously familiar.

i've heard those kind of unforgiving and judgmental rebukes before from my dad many times. he gets up really early for work, and his work demands a lot of hours and focus from him, so my own work ethic has always seemed really shitty from where he stands and he reminds me of that quite often. i mean i'm not lazy, i've worked quite hard on many jobs and projects, but i never had the stomach for the 5-am rising and ceaseless commitment that his job required. so anyways, he'd always complain that i wasn't industrious enough, and his complaints would frequently descend into very total judgments and hyperbole.

i too was successful in school, very much so in fact, and it was never quite good enough. it was always like, so if i am getting straight A's and taking classes years ahead of my peers, why am i not, like, inventing something or starting a company like that other teenage whiz or getting national recognition for my math/physics skills? he'd say it like, why am i not pulling that off, like he couldn't see any possible excuse for why i hadn't taken that next step.

got thrown out of the house once because he was frustrated with putting me up when i was un- or under-employed a few years back, in my earlier years as a young adult.

he and i have mostly patched things up, which definitely has something to do with my now being able to live and support myself independent of him. but it's hard to forget that my earlier need to rely on him was seen as being very burdensome and disappointing.

in the end, though we've had our difficulties i still feel very close to him. while he's always had complaints about my work ethic, on the other hand he's been very encouraging as to my actual work skills, and always urged that i never sell myself short as to my value as a computer programmer. he can still be very moralizing but it's not always all that unforgiving. when things have frustrated me (and i could explain it to him without him chalking it up to me being lazy or under-committed) he's had really great insight and i definitely am much better off now for having that advice. he's politically opinionated and opposite the spectrum from me, but he is very good at having an open discussion about that and finding common ground. when things aren't combative between us i really like spending time with him. and he's made many sacrifices for me, and always made sure to spend a lot of time with me as a kid although he had those long hours. and as much as his work ethic has been an impossible bar to set for me, i am nonetheless proud of him for how hard he works, especially since it's really all for the family and his own life is very austere.

NC in the end, despite many struggles. thinking now about the issues we've had, i think what it comes down to is that he's a very intense person, to the point of sometimes losing his bearings.

this past father's day was surely difficult for him because his own father (my grandpa) has alzheimer's. so i made sure to pay him a kind phone call.
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Re: your father

Postby Angus Jung on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:48 pm

tocharian wrote:My therapist told me I should make new parents. Good advice.

It really is.

Making a new family is one of the great things you can do when you become a grown-up adult person.
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Re: your father

Postby kerble on Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:56 pm

Angus Jung wrote:
tocharian wrote:My therapist told me I should make new parents. Good advice.

It really is.

Making a new family is one of the great things you can do when you become a grown-up adult person.



100% it's tricky. it can take years, and may even cause some blowouts, but it is so worth it for peace of mind it allows. Mine's still in process, but I'm much much happier overall, and so are they. best of luck!
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Re: your father

Postby dontfeartheringo on Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:56 pm

Trying and failing and trying and failing and trying again and failing again has made me think about fatherhood a little differently, I guess.

If I am, by some chance, lucky enough to raise this little girl who is living in my house right now, here are my expectations of her as she grows up:

1. Be as happy as you can.
2. Let me know how I can help.


OK.

I told my folks the other day that if she decides she wants to go to Harvard and study international finance, I'll find a way to pay for it. If she wants to be a painter and live in a freezing little loft in the East Village and eat canned tuna, ok. I'll make sure she has health insurance and money for can openers.

I am sure she will find ways to confound and exasperate me as she gets older. OK. You know what's worse than that? Not having a daughter.

I want to grab some of these shitbeak fathers by the collar and say "You're a lucky man, shithead. Act like it."
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Re: your father

Postby kerble on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:05 pm

dontfeartheringo wrote:If I am, by some chance, lucky enough to raise this little girl who is living in my house right now, here are my expectations of her as she grows up:

1. Be as happy as you can.
2. Let me know how I can help.


OK.


we're rooting for you two, seguro.

I like the list. my brother has a similarly terse set of household rules he uses with his two kids:

1. Be Responsible
2. Be Nice
3. Have Fun


so good.
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Re: your father

Postby DregsInTheCrowd on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:32 pm

My dad's name is Terry, and I have a difficult relationship with him. Despite that, I admire some things about him and owe him a lot.

He put me through college, entirely on his dime. We were also not a wealthy family, but he started a mutual fund for me and my sister shortly after we were born, and despite some serious fluctuations in its worth (I started school in 2002, my sister in 2004 if that tells you anything) it was enough to cover all our school expenses. That was a pretty remarkable thing for him to do.

For the better part of ten years, despite his vocal dismissal of my musical ambitions, he almost never asked me to stop playing my guitar loudly in the house. He may have asked me a few times to turn it down a bit. But he is an impatient man with little tolerance for a disruption to his routine, and he put up with my noisy punk music and occasional drumming for a long fucking time.

He spent nearly thirty years managing Dominick's grocery stores in the Northwest suburbs of Chicago. He worked tirelessly at it until 1994, when Safeway bought the company. He quit and decided to start a small business (a Mail Boxes Etc) in the downtown area of Barrington, IL. He did it for ten years, and I suspect he got more enjoyment out of running a small shop with devoted clients, in which he was actively engaged with the community, than he ever did running large grocery stores. It was a successful business, and kept us comfortable, though he did start to get tired of it by the end. He retired in 2004, and has since become a slightly more open-minded and inquisitive man. He has also begun living his life's ambition, which is to sit in a chair and watch television, knowing that he is no longer responsible for raising children.

When I was young, he took my mom, sister and I on a few fun vacations, mainly camping and hotel trips around the Midwest. Later, after I graduated from college, we took a couple cross-country road trips that ended in misery, stress, and distrust. It was the wrong time in all our lives to be taking lengthy road trips with one another. Those trips completely changed my opinion of my immediate family, especially my father. They changed my whole idea of family, in fact.

There are a lot of things about my dad's lifestyle, outlook, day-to-day attitude, and politics that I do not and never have agreed with. We did not get along when we lived together, and he isn't the kind of man that inspired self-confidence in his children. He attended a performance by my high school band at a well-attended event at my school. For 17-year-olds, we gave a pretty fiery performance and were received pretty well. Meeting up with my family afterward, my dad commented "Wow. I didn't think you had it in you."

He never understood my major in undergrad (sound engineering), and considered it an insult when he discovered, post-graduation, that it wasn't going to be a one-way ticket to the middle class. I suppose I now understand his disappointment.

He had two children with a previous wife, my half brother and sister. I never lived under the same roof with them, and his relationship with them fostered a sense of otherness. They were at the youngest 14 years older than me. So, they were in their adulthood, and mostly getting along quite well with my dad, when I was in my teens and not getting along with him at all. Except for a couple year standoff between my dad and half sister, I observed only pleasant interactions between him and my half siblings. That made me, and probably my younger sister, feel separate from them, and unfavored by our dad. Which didn't seem fair, as our half siblings are awesome people in every way.

There was a brief time when my sister, my mother, and myself were all separately seeing the same psychologist, a doctor of some renown. We all filled out a psychological profile questionaire, and he even convinced my dad to come in and fill one out. Months later, I asked what he could glean from it, if he could share any information. All he said was that my dad was so incapable of emotional and intellectual honesty that he couldn't learn a thing about him from his questionaire. He added that everything my family had to say about him was completely at odds with what he thought of himself.

He has been capable of true greatness as a dad. He is also petty, entitled, cowardly, pedantic, and competitive. And he is probably at his core a very isolated and lonely man. He has brought it on himself. And yet, I want to love him and know him better. Go figure.
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Re: your father

Postby Trey on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:02 am

Man, fuck a bunch of these dads. Mine was shitty too when I was younger. Same as many of these posts above. I grew up and stopped speaking to him for years. He started calling me and shit about 7 or 8 years ago and I softened up. We have our little bullshit relationship now, but only because he knows I would kick the shit out of him now if he did me the way he did when I was a kid. Mostly I feel sorry for him. My existence was based on a fear of him until I was around 19, 20 yrs. old. My dad is broke, old, will have to work until he dies, and worries about what others think of him.

I'm a good dad. Maybe not the most conventional or stable dad all the time, but I'm a good dad. I try to take what my dad did to me, and do the opposite. She won't hate me, I hope.
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Re: your father

Postby Eugenius on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:49 am

My dad lives in England and I live in the US. I miss him a lot. He worked hard when I was a kid, bringing work home from the office, answering phone calls on weekends, etc. I remember going to his office in the house to say goodnight many times. Despite the constraints of being a 1970s/1980s British father he would make time for his kids, I remember him regularly coming to watch me play football (soccer) at the time I took this for granted but now I realize how important this was. He was a local government lawyer and he would make me think a lot, Sunday dinner would inevitably turn into a heated political/ethical debate in which he would play devil's advocate. He is retired now but still does consultancy work on his own terms, he and my mom visits us for about 2 weeks every year. When he visits I never tell him I miss him. At the end of every visit we hug each other, every time. But we never say what we should say. I always tell myself that this time I will, but I never do.
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Re: your father

Postby flyinghouses on Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:44 pm

If I could have his intellect and craftsmanship I would be much better off. He is still alive, and has no patience to really teach. I said not a word to him Sunday because it would have not felt like it meant anything. I feel I have too much work to do on myself first. Some of you are very lucky
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Re: your father

Postby Luzwei on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:48 pm

I have a very strange and interesting relationship with my father. Although, he is a great man and very no bullshit and a really moral person. But on the other hand he is very self centered and a real prick. Most of the time he's a prick.

I would say CRAP with major waffles then.
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Re: your father

Postby Andrew. on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:49 am

thyklopth wrote:
Andrew. wrote:This weekend my dad came out to visit. My dad was born dirt-poor, the middle child in a family of thirteen (eleven kids, not including stillbirths) on a farm near Swalwell Alberta.

He's the kind of guy most people (especially men) overlook: doesn't follow professional sports; seems oblivious to any competitive impulse. Very patient, introverted, erudite guy. Arguably a bit too passive.

He gets a little smaller, and a little sweeter, every time I see him.

Here we are at Crab Park this weekend.

Image


Had to make me cry, didn't you?


I'd completely forgotten about this post and this picture. Think I missed this reply, too. I was thinking the other day about how much the weather is a thing for my dad. It's our opening conversation topic almost every phone call. I never talk to people about the weather because I hate small talk. But with my dad, talking about the weather is just talking about reality. It's talking about the air, the sky, the season, the colors, what's going on with leaves and flowers. He feels more connected to me when he hears about the weather where I am. I like my dad.
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Re: your father

Postby jimmy two hands on Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:12 pm

Damn, some of these bad father stories make me want to go back to my snotty teenage self and tell me to quit bitchin because I got pretty it good in this cushy suburban life. I'd tell myself, you got a dad who taught you how to shoot a gun at age 6, takes you deer hunting every fall so that you get to skip school for a week and even drink a few beers around the fire, who followed through when he said he'd pay you $100 if you read 10 books over the summer, who also followed through when he said he'd pay you $200 if you could run 2 miles in under 12 minutes a few summers later, who taught you to appreciate good rock music at a young age and will even come out to shitty dive bars later in life to watch your band play, and a whole bunch of other shit. Luckily I realize all this now.
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Re: your father

Postby turnbullac on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:10 pm

I always think about my old man a lot around this time of year, because our birthdays are coming up. If he was still around, next Friday would be his 90th. He was a great guy. A man of incredible faith, WWII vet, and the most caring and devoted human being. I love him to death. All the good qualities that you guys know and love about me come straight down the line from him. He was able to guide me without bearing down or trying to control me. He was a great listener and adviser. We really had to hold on to each other at times. I lived my entire life just for him to be proud of me. We had our differences. It wasn't easy. In spite of everything, he still loved me unconditionally. There was a lot of stuff left unsaid between us. He had been through so much, provided me with so much, I could never disappoint him...

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Re: your father

Postby japmn on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:51 pm

My dad called me to tell me about how awesome his life is because his wife got him a puppy for fathers day. He went on for about an hour about it, so yeah... my dad is really good guy.
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Re: your father

Postby brisket on Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:45 am

It only really hit me recently that my dad, despite his many flaws, actually did a very, very brave and admirable thing.

he met my mother when they were 28. she was a broke solo parent with twin 3-year-old boys. He was brave enough to marry her, take the boys on as his own, and even look after them without her for six months when she got the opportunity to study in China. It's only as an adult that you can appreciate that level of commitment to someone. so yeah, three more kids followed and they're still together.

I think it helped that he had a youth full of travel and illegal adventures, so he didn't have to stress about whether he had enough stories saved up before getting hitched. dude was a child prodigy who left home at 14, became a shepherd, then caught a boat to London and became a roadie/hired muscle/speed freak. He was a fisherman when he met my mother. When I was a kid, my parents were real broke, both of them working as lawnmowing contractors. They treated us good - Dad would shoplift Christmas presents for us because he wanted us to have a great day.

seriously NC even though I find it hard to talk to him about anything except politics.
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