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Ramones vs. Kraftwerk

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I'm a Nazi schatze: Johnny, Joey, Dee Dee, Tommy
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Der Menschmaschine: Ralf, Florian, Wolfgang, Karl
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Total votes : 113

Ramones vs. Kraftwerk

Postby ctrl-s on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:21 am

Arguably the two most influential groups of the 1970s. Polar opposites, mirror images, minimalist pioneers, wonderfully complementary if listened to back-to-back.

Whom do you prefer? Who looked cooler? Whose influence was more profound and lasting? Or do they both suck moose cock as far as you're concerned? Impossible. Choose. Explain.

[The second poll option should be "Die Mensch-Maschine." Scheiße.]
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Postby HOUSTON_M on Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:47 am

Both the Ramones and Kraftwerk are very overrated, in my opinion.
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Postby SecondEdition on Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:37 am

Damn. Interesting poll.


Not really too hard, though.


The Ramones. In terms of overall quality, they had more good albums than Kraftwerk ever did.
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Postby Piasek on Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:56 am

HOUSTON_M wrote:Both the Ramones and Kraftwerk are very overrated, in my opinion.


not very much but a little bit, yes.
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Postby thyklopth on Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:53 am

Piasek wrote:
HOUSTON_M wrote:Both the Ramones and Kraftwerk are very overrated, in my opinion.


not very much but a little bit, yes.


Yep
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Postby ctrl-s on Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:13 am

Whether or not you think their critical and popular reception was/is deserved, no Ramones and no Kraftwerk = no music as we know it since 1976. "I am not responding but posting in yawning superior blase mode" should've been a voting option, apparently.
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Postby thyklopth on Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:21 pm

ctrl-s wrote:Whether or not you think their critical and popular reception was/is deserved, no Ramones and no Kraftwerk = no music as we know it since 1976. "I am not responding but posting in yawning superior blase mode" should've been a voting option, apparently.


I'm sure there are many more like me who managed to thrive and create
despite never having heard them.
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Postby ubercat on Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:34 pm

Kraftwerk.

If you remove Ramones from history the hole isn't as large as the one left by removing Kraftwerk. Kraftwerk invented electronic pop and had a huge effect on Industrial music. If based on modern sampling alone Kraftwerk invented just about everything James Brown didn't.

Plus, I'm not all that big a Ramones fan. German bias also kicking in.
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Postby ctrl-s on Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:43 pm

thyklopth: Great, and your point is?

ubercat: I tend to agree (voted Kraftwerk by a hair for similar reasons, though I could've just as easily gone with Ramones on nostalgic/sentimental grounds) but: no Ramones, no punk rock. Just sayin'.
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Postby steve on Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:56 pm

ubercat wrote:If you remove Ramones from history the hole isn't as large as the one left by removing Kraftwerk.

I love Kraftwerk, but you out yo damn mind.
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Postby ubercat on Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:15 pm

steve wrote:
ubercat wrote:If you remove Ramones from history the hole isn't as large as the one left by removing Kraftwerk.

I love Kraftwerk, but you out yo damn mind.


I'm pretty sure punk would have congealed without Ramones. 1,000 monkeys with typewriters...
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Postby ctrl-s on Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:34 pm

I don't know, earlier noisy/primitive tendencies in American rock (like Cleveland "proto-punk") seems like it might have been too volatile and fragmented and anti-commercial and Stooges-duplicating to spread widely and coalesce into a major shift. The Ramones benefited from being in the right place among the right people at the right time AND from bringing together really disparate strands (Beach Boys, Charles Manson, life in Forest Hills) with unique originality, humor, and unpretentiousness. Life-changing.

But obviously there are millions of people who don't like / have never heard / could give a flying fuck about the Ramones or punk rock, whereas EVERYONE has heard -- and, I'll wager, enjoyed -- at least some music that has been directly influenced by Kraftwerk, whether or not they wanted to or even knew it. Both are fantastic, but in terms of global and historical significance, Kraftwerk takes it. Also I'm on a massive Kraftwerk kick these days; though my enjoyment of them isn't nearly as context-specific (i.e. in reaction to shitty radio fare, being a teenager, etc.), it's not less.

I expected Ramones to walk away with this poll on this forum.
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Postby The MayorofRockNRoll on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:11 pm

ubercat wrote:
steve wrote:
ubercat wrote:If you remove Ramones from history the hole isn't as large as the one left by removing Kraftwerk.

I love Kraftwerk, but you out yo damn mind.


I'm pretty sure punk would have congealed without Ramones. 1,000 monkeys with typewriters...


Sure, but given that...The Ramones were those thousand monkeys with typewriters...if it hadn't been them, it would've been somebody like them
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Postby Piasek on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:14 pm

ctrl-s wrote:Whether or not you think their critical and popular reception was/is deserved, no Ramones and no Kraftwerk = no music as we know it since 1976. "I am not responding but posting in yawning superior blase mode" should've been a voting option, apparently.


wrong. what about the stooges?
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Postby ctrl-s on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:21 pm

"Since 1976," I said. Do you think that without punk rock, sparked by bands like, say, the Ramones, the Stooges influence would've taken root and spread as it has since then?
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Postby lemur68 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:30 pm

ctrl-s wrote:EVERYONE has heard -- and, I'll wager, enjoyed -- at least some music that has been directly influenced by Kraftwerk, whether or not they wanted to or even knew it.


Even Coldplay fans.
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Postby ctrl-s on Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:31 pm

Knew that'd come up. I've never heard it and never want to. It does kind of prove the point, though.
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Postby Ekkssvvppllott on Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:19 pm

If for some strange reason I was allowed to be either a Ramone or an official member of Kraftwerk (complete with corresponding robot), I would choose to be a member of Kraftwerk. In a fucking heartbeat. Hell, take away the robot and I'd still rather be in Kraftwerk. Kraftwerk.
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Postby motorbike guy on Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:10 pm

Kraftwerk seemed like an interesting science experiment to me. The music - meh. No Ballz.

the Ramones, on the other hand are all Ballz.

Ramonse - FTW.
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Postby lemur68 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:10 pm

the$inmusicisallmine wrote:Kraftwerk seemed like an interesting science experiment to me. The music - meh. No Ballz.

the Ramones, on the other hand are all Ballz.

Ramonse - FTW.


So jocks > nerds.
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