HBO Drama: The Wire

[P.J. Craven]

Sometimes I can't help but to look at the entirety of the narrative and think that him and The Greek are really the only two people that had any vision.

I thought Marlo was trashy. I'll definitely give you The Greek, but I don't think you're giving enough credit to Stringer Bell, McNulty (in spite of his recklessness), and perhaps Carcetti.

Marlo's last scene in The Wire has always confused and even went so far as to haunt me a bit. What a great series.

[deep.BTUz]

Sometimes I can't help but to look at the entirety of the narrative and think that him and The Greek are really the only two people that had any vision.

I thought Marlo was trashy. I'll definitely give you The Greek, but I don't think you're giving enough credit to Stringer Bell, McNulty (in spite of his recklessness), and perhaps Carcetti.

Marlo's last scene in The Wire has always confused and even haunted me. What a great series.

I'll give you Carcetti (O'Malley). McNulty really wound up a beaten man, and Stringer got killed so...

That last scene though right? Marlo got it all handed to him and still couldn't hold it. Marlo. God Damn. Has any artist created a better embodiment of the 21st century than Marlo Stanfield?

[i am the smud]

BTUZ, I am at about the same part of Season 4 as you are.

Season 3 was such a bummer, in terms of tone. Just the general atmosphere of that season, I always had an uncomfortable feeling about how things were going to end. The whole "Hamsterdam" situation was thoroughly disgusting, and probably not too farfetched. The Wire really nails just how fucked bureaucracy in this country really is.

For some reason, I thought it was Avon who was going to get killed first, Stringer's death took me by surprise. Despite Stringer being an asshole (killing D'angelo and then fucking his girl), I actually felt kind of bad for him.

[WMFS]

Aces until the Journalist angle in season 5.

[i am the smud]

The beatdown at the end of episode 10 in the 4th season is one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen on TV.

[P.J. Craven]

http://jimmymcnultyfarting.tumblr.com/

[i am the smud]

Just finished the 5th season.

Series finale did not disappoint, which is rare for a TV series. Then again, few (any?) TV shows are cut from the same clothe as The Wire.

I really don't know if Greggs did the right thing. Or McNulty for that matter.

That scene where Michael sees his brother off just about killed me.

[cerebralheadtrip]

I think the irony is lost on him

[Tommy]

While I definitely liked this series (can't help but love the Omar character), I think I might be the only person that liked each season a little less than the one before it.

[andyman]

Yes

[timpickens]

I finished the first season yesterday, it took about three sittings. I watched about four episodes until I realized that I should probably get out of bed and do something with my day. I got up and went for a run, got home and semi-consciously threw on another episode and proceeded to sit and watch another seven episodes in a row. This series has hooked me faster and stronger than any other I've watched.

After watching all of the Oz seasons not long ago and then now watching The Wire, I keep thinking everybody is going to die or that any possibility of a positive outcome will shatter before my eyes. Not always the case with this show, and it's kind of refreshing. I was also not expecting to laugh my balls off during several scenes.

Yay The Wire. I'm going to be useless for the next few weeks.

NC

[Jeremy B]

Nerd out: Slavoj Zizek and Fredric Jameson talk The Wire.

[Braniac5]

#sPoILeRs#





Fuck Greggs, I can't believe she ratted them out like that.

'...like I'm just a breathing apparatus for my dick' -- McNulty

[Cranius]

Nerd out: Slavoj Zizek and Fredric Jameson talk The Wire.

Thanks, I went to see Slavoj discuss The Wire the other day, he made quite a lot of references to Jameson; joking that he hadn't actually watched The Wire, but merely read what other people wrote about it. He also apologised for being about 10 years too late on catching up with this show. There's a recording here:

Slavoj Žižek – The Wire or the clash of civilisations in one country

The Wagnerian that he is, he makes some nice points about similarities between The Wire and Greek tragedy; this idea of the city (polis) representing itself cathartically, with certain actors playing out their real-life roles. And he commented on how certain characters, such as Omar, are like Perseus banished from Olympus to walk amongst mortals in everyday America.

I agree with his minor criticisms of the TV series, in that David Simon is nostalgic for the Rooseveltian-era of social stability, an era that we can't simply return to. He also thought it was symptomatic that honest characters such as McNulty just go home at the end, having done their best, whilst the cycle of corruption continues on. Here he says how whilst the Greek heroes were allocated individual fates by the gods, we live in a system where our fates are dictated by the anonymous machinery of capitalism. However, we do have the capacity to change our fate, if we so choose, by dismantling that machinery.

All good fun.

[Andrew.]

All good fun.

Heh.

I listened to the first half of it or so yesterday. He's good on the tragedy/realism distinction. Simon has been very explicit about this himself.

The fact Obama and Eric Holder are big fans is a testament to the idiocy power makes of intelligent people.

[Wood Goblin]

For Žižek, on the other hand, The Wire is ultimately not utopian or revolutionary enough. (It may be worth noting that Žižek considers Jimmy McNulty's crazy fake-serial-killer scheme in Season 5 "totally ethical and brilliant.") He argues that the series is too wedded to psychological realism, which, in his view, takes the modern individual's relationship to the world around him essentially for granted. To successfully critique the capitalist status quo, Žižek argues, you must step outside of realist representations. He cites Charlie Chaplin and Bertolt Brecht as storytellers who did so—and even suggests that Simon and company could have learned something from his "great enemy," Ayn Rand, who, in Atlas Shrugged, insisted on the destruction of the status quo, albeit with aims entirely opposite to Žižek's own. (I kept waiting for Žižek to bring up Obama's recently reiterated love for The Wire in support of his argument, but somehow he never did.)

I, too, often wished that David Simon would have made the show worse.

[Cranius]

I, too, often wished that David Simon would have made the show worse.

Zizek pointed out that, to David Simon's credit, he didn't opt for a Dickensian ending, where a rich benefactor appears at the end to render everything okay.

Someone in the Q&A mentioned that Obama's new favourite show is Homeland, which demonstrates how his presidency has somewhat deviated from its original promise.

[bigc]

The Wire is like the television version of Neutral Milk Hotel.

Yes, it's good...but shut the fuck up about it already!

Not Crap. Waffles for the fans.

[sparky]

I, too, often wished that David Simon would have made the show worse.

I don't think that's the point.

Zizek opines on the politics he sees bubbling under the series' surface rather than no its quality as a television show. He uses it to make an argument. Contrary devil that he is, he picks at the aspect that has been lauded more than any other: its realism. Though I would love to see a Brechtian episode of The Wire!

Looking back at The Wire, I think that the aforementioned Rooseveltian nostalgia gives the show much of its pungency, as it wishes for something that is impossible to return to (or may never have existed). Much of the charm and melancholia of the series comes from this position of bitter hopelessness.

By implication the show is more revolutionary than Zizek gives it credit for: by dwelling on the utter failure of modern politics to address the needs of a city and its people, and by demonstrating how complete is the scission of this politics from this supposed Golden Age of opportunity, it makes going back impossible.

[Wood Goblin]

I, too, often wished that David Simon would have made the show worse.

I don't think that's the point.

Zizek opines on the politics he sees bubbling under the series' surface rather than no its quality as a television show. He uses it to make an argument. Contrary devil that he is, he picks at the aspect that has been lauded more than any other: its realism. Though I would love to see a Brechtian episode of The Wire!

I haven't listened to the lecture, only read the summary, so perhaps the Slate piece does a disservice to Zizek's critique. Maybe there's context or irony to his comments.

According to the summary, Zizek's primary critcism is that the show wasn't something else--namely, a pure critique of capitalist status quo. Simon is apparently a Marxist himself, but he's also an artist, and he never subjugates the art to a particular ideological or political stance. The politics bubble underneath the surface, but they're also organic to the setting, the characters, the story. Zizek wishes, it seems, that politics had been given primacy and that the show would have been more Utopian, more revolutionary. I disagree with this. That's how you end up with bad Socialist Realism and Christian Rock.

Also, this bit--"To successfully critique the capitalist status quo, Žižek argues, you must step outside of realist representations"--did he really say that? Without being laughed out of the room? Certainly there have been successful examples of successful critiques performed using non-realist methods, but the success is not contingent on the method of representation. Not even close!

Finally, absolutely nothing can be learned from Ayn Rand except for what bad writing looks like. It seems pointless to acknowledge that her books mount successful challenges of the status quo. You may as well compliment her for her penmanship.

Looking back at The Wire, I think that the aforementioned Rooseveltian nostalgia gives the show much of its pungency, as it wishes for something that is impossible to return to (or may never have existed). Much of the charm and melancholia of the series comes from this position of bitter hopelessness.

By implication the show is more revolutionary than Zizek gives it credit for: by dwelling on the utter failure of modern politics to address the needs of a city and its people, and by demonstrating how complete is the scission of this politics from this supposed Golden Age of opportunity, it makes going back impossible.[/quote]