Production Dome: Nevermind Vs. In Utero

[i am the smud]

Kurt Cobain himself has said that Nevermind, "sounds like a Motley Crue record."

Also, why wasn't Bleach included?

[Awesome_Komodo]

Also, why wasn't Bleach included?

Because it's been done already

[numberthirty]

Didn't Butch Vig do some of the stuff from Incesticide, like Aneurysm and Molly's Lips? I like those recordings the best.

I'm almost positive that the versions of those songs on Incesticide were taken from the Peel sessions.

There's a better recording of "Aneurysm"--by their live soundguy--on the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" single.

Do Peel sessions typically have overdubs? Because those songs I mentioned were definitely layered up.

I could swear that the three covers were from an ep that also had another cover. I can't recall the other cover but, It does seem like the covers were from a Peel session.

[numberthirty]

They had a cassette of the rough (Butch) mix of Nevermind, and it sounded maybe 200 times more ass-kicking than what I remember of the released version.

Yeah, there was a rough of "Breed" off that With the Lights Out box set that just destroys the album version. Super tough sounding.

That this mix exists makes the classic albums interview even more odd. It's like two seriously different takes on the bands sound.

[SecondEdition]

While we were working on In Utero, the band would occasionally play other recordings of theirs in the control room for reference, or when trying to describe a part to one another. They had a cassette of the rough (Butch) mix of Nevermind, and it sounded maybe 200 times more ass-kicking than what I remember of the released version.

Make no mistake about it, Butch Vig was an excellent engineer and had a good, sympathetic relationship with all the noisy bands he recorded in the 80s. Those Killdozer, Appliances and Laughing Hyenas records all sounded fantastic and suited the bands perfectly. This version sounded like that, and that was obviously why they wanted to work with him.

Through a career path that led him primarily to major label work, Butch basically didn't get to work on any decent records after that, so you can't really judge him based on the kind of crap he was handed to work on.

Man, Andy Wallace must have done a grade A job of de-intensifying the material in a day.

[P.J. Craven]

Nevermind's production is pretty dated sounding. I have a hard time listening to it because of the snare sounds alone. Even on the Scott Litt mix of In Utero I always thought Milk It sounded like JL.

Scott Litt only remixed "All Apologies" and "Heart-Shaped Box". That's the party line, anyway.

Through a career path that led him primarily to major label work, Butch basically didn't get to work on any decent records after that, so you can't really judge him based on the kind of crap he was handed to work on.

In college, I was friends with Butch's niece. Everything I learned of him from her only made me like him more. Butch is a total Madison guy. If you have spent any amount of time in the rock community there, you might have an idea of what I'm talking about when I say that. That "making of Nevermind" documentary is basically "A revealing look at Butch Vig doin' his thang/Butch Vig gets super famous--the documentary". Viva Butch.

Butch's niece was nice enough to send me a copy of her record if anyone wants a copy. I think she did it at Smart. If this is considered name dropping, consider my life's quota full.

Yeah, there was a rough of "Breed" off that With the Lights Out box set that just destroys the album version. Super tough sounding.

If you have With the Lights Out and not Keep an Eye on the Sky, I may have to abduct you. Does this smell like chloroform?

[Rog]

Butch is a total Madison guy. If you have spent any amount of time in the rock community there, you might have an idea of what I'm talking about when I say that.

I have no idea what you might be talking about when you say that.

[P.J. Craven]

Butch is a total Madison guy. If you have spent any amount of time in the rock community there, you might have an idea of what I'm talking about when I say that.

I have no idea what you might be talking about when you say that.

I'm too tired to explain it right now, and I knew I'd get shit from you about it (this makes me happy). Salut, Rog.

Can I have until Wednesday? My explanation smacks of eugenics-esque logic, so I could really use some time to choose my words carefully.

[Rog]

Butch is a total Madison guy. If you have spent any amount of time in the rock community there, you might have an idea of what I'm talking about when I say that.

I have no idea what you might be talking about when you say that.

I'm too tired to explain it right now, and I knew I'd get shit from you about it (this makes me happy). Salut, Rog.

Can I have until Wednesday? My explanation smacks of eugenics-esque logic, so I could really use some time to choose my words carefully.

No shit...just a statement of fact.
Dude, you can have 'til the end of time for that explanation.

[P.J. Craven]

The end of time is good for me. I need to find my copy of the documentary which has gone missing. It's certain mannerisms he possesses that remind me of the people from that town who most blew me away. Somehow decidedly different from Chicago, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis, but I cannot pin that "it" down. Wednesday or the end of time, whatever works. I don't know what's worse, a half-explanation that smacks of regionalism or lazy thinking.

EDIT: I think he's either from Vernon, WI or the Eau Claire area though. Some "V" word.

[Bill Swansea]

While we were working on In Utero, the band would occasionally play other recordings of theirs in the control room for reference, or when trying to describe a part to one another. They had a cassette of the rough (Butch) mix of Nevermind, and it sounded maybe 200 times more ass-kicking than what I remember of the released version.

Make no mistake about it, Butch Vig was an excellent engineer and had a good, sympathetic relationship with all the noisy bands he recorded in the 80s. Those Killdozer, Appliances and Laughing Hyenas records all sounded fantastic and suited the bands perfectly. This version sounded like that, and that was obviously why they wanted to work with him.

Through a career path that led him primarily to major label work, Butch basically didn't get to work on any decent records after that, so you can't really judge him based on the kind of crap he was handed to work on.

Totally why I'm really fucking tempted to buy that Nevermind deluxe version.
Man, Andy Wallace must have done a grade A job of de-intensifying the material in a day.

[Rog]

EDIT: I think he's either from Vernon, WI or the Eau Claire area though. Some "V" word.

Viroqua, Wisconsin.

[STF]

I think it's telling that a lot of people wish there were better recordings of Nirvana to listen to. They were what they were. A different mix of a more "raw" or "abrasive" Nirvana isn't going to make them mind-blowing. What you're wishing for is that Nirvana were a better band because you spent a lot of time listening to them and maybe you need to justify to yourself why you listened to a popular band. Nirvana weren't an amazing or mind-blowing band. They were just an okay band.

[towel]

I think it's telling that a lot of people wish there were better recordings of The Beatles to listen to. They were what they were. A different mix of a more "raw" or "abrasive" The Beatles isn't going to make them mind-blowing. What you're wishing for is that The Beatles were a better band because you spent a lot of time listening to them and maybe you need to justify to yourself why you listened to a popular band. The Beatles weren't an amazing or mind-blowing band. They were just an okay band.

Liverpool'dYP

[Ernest]

I think it's telling that a lot of people wish there were better recordings of Nirvana to listen to. They were what they were. A different mix of a more "raw" or "abrasive" Nirvana isn't going to make them mind-blowing. What you're wishing for is that Nirvana were a better band because you spent a lot of time listening to them and maybe you need to justify to yourself why you listened to a popular band. Nirvana weren't an amazing or mind-blowing band. They were just an okay band.

It's odd that you can Freud a deeply held truth out of wanting better production. Production can effect the quality of a song. Haven't you heard Joy Division?

[mdbeh]

I think it's telling that a lot of people wish there were better recordings of Nirvana to listen to. They were what they were. A different mix of a more "raw" or "abrasive" Nirvana isn't going to make them mind-blowing. What you're wishing for is that Nirvana were a better band because you spent a lot of time listening to them and maybe you need to justify to yourself why you listened to a popular band. Nirvana weren't an amazing or mind-blowing band. They were just an okay band.

This is a big bag of bullshit, is what this is. Have you even heard the mixes being discussed?

It's not a case "I wish this thing that doesn't exist existed." It's a case of, "Hey, this is better, they should have released this."

I'm pretty sure I've heard all the alternative mixes and... they're better. They are more satisfying listening experiences than what was released. I'd probably give Nirvana a '6' if we were ranking on a 10-point scale; not crap, not great either. But they had their virtues, and, in particular, a more appropriate mix of Nevermind would have highlighted those qualities better.

Butch's Killdozer records sound amazing.

[DregsInTheCrowd]

I think it's telling that a lot of people wish there were better recordings of Nirvana to listen to. They were what they were. A different mix of a more "raw" or "abrasive" Nirvana isn't going to make them mind-blowing. What you're wishing for is that Nirvana were a better band because you spent a lot of time listening to them and maybe you need to justify to yourself why you listened to a popular band. Nirvana weren't an amazing or mind-blowing band. They were just an okay band.

For me it's more that their last two studio records were compromised. Live recordings, fantastic band. B-sides, great. Bleach, MTV Unplugged, great. Nevermind and In Utero, great, weirdly re-mixed records. I don't have to "wish" there were better versions of them - there ARE better versions of them. I listen to my vinyl of the original In Utero mixes to this day. Sounds like Nirvana wasn't your thing, that's cool. To my ears, Nirvana were a great band. Bands are not the same thing as the recordings of their songs.

[Antero]

The Butch Vig mix of "Breed" sounds pretty great.

Very stoked to here all the rest of the original mixes when that reissue comes out next month.

Shiiiiiit, that sounds great.

[tarandfeathers]

Do Peel sessions typically have overdubs? Because those songs I mentioned were definitely layered up.

Depends if the band doing the session wanted to do overdubs. I think a lot of bands chose not to, I suppose they felt that the concept of the Peel session was to represent the band playing live. But you certainly got the option of multiple takes, overdubs, special effects, etc. if you wanted them.

[Steve V.]

I like Nevermind as an album better both song-wise and production-wise.

I don't need to hear the coffee grains screaming from the floor of the studio. I think Albini captures bands like no other dude, and he deserves his rep. I just don't think it worked for Nirvana. I don't subscribe to the talk that Nevermind is too slick or overdone. I think it's a great representation of those songs, which were meant to explode out the stereo, out of the radio. The overdubs worked. The sound worked. Rounding off the rough edges made that band a monster.

That little "boo-wop boo-wop boo-wop" part in "Teen Spirit" followed by those distorted guitars is like Columbine, 9/11, and the Kennedy Assassination all wound up into one fucking moment.

"Live at Reading" is the best fucking thing Nirvana ever did.