Either/Or: Rod Stewart/Ric Flair

[Marsupialized]

All y'alls Ric Flair fans have GOT to own the "Best of Ric Flair" DVD set. There's some transcendant shit on there.

-NWA World Champ Harley Race delivers an impassioned plea for someone to take his suitcase full of $25,000 as bounty for putting Flair out of wrestling. "TAKE THE DAMN MONEY!" he yells, while throwing some of it on the ground in frustration.

-After Dick Murdoch and Cowboy Bob Orton take him out, Flair announces his retirement, only to stage a run-in during a TV taping in a high school gym where Murdoch and Orton are wrestling a tag team match. He chases them out of the gym and delivers a spirited promo with Gordon Solie as witness. The girls is the gym are seen going completely APESHIT, having thought the Nature Boy retired.

-Flair wins the belt from Race.

-Flair defends the title against "The American Dream" Dusty Rhodes.

-Flair wrestles Ricky Steamboat, who just beat Flair for the NWA belt, in the classic 1989 best-of-three falls Clash of the Champions match that almost runs an entire hour.

-Flair later wins the belt back in a thrilling rematch.

-Miscellaneous footage of Flair invading the WWF in 1992 as "the real world's champion" with Bobby Heenen sucking his cock every inch of the way.

-Flair wins the WWF title in the 1992 Royal Rumble.

And much more! It's fucking phenom.

Dude best interview ever. Flair surrounded by hot girls, he's in a full length mink coat...he's talking a world of shit to Steamboat about being married 'You fuck the same woman EVERY night? HaHaHa! Woooooo!'
'Go home and do your dishes, I'm going downtown to party....ladies take a good long look at this man...this is what a LOSER looks like! Woooo!'

[segerandpriest]

Been away.....haven't see you in a while. How you been? Did you.....?

Yesterday was weird. I'm reacting monstrously to a medication and Sunday am this meant 8 hours of fervent blogging inspired by a single bloody shot of a coupla wrestlers. The athletes held crappy championship belts, and I recalled Mr. Flair's notorious big, gold belt and wrote about its origins. I followed that up with a summation of Ric's civic bona fides, which foreshadowed his accumulated scandal-dirt and led to a discussion of this thread and the many fascinating personages and responses found therein. I hope nobody fears being quoted at length about Flair versus Rod? After some unsolicited plugging for Brett Eugene Ralph's good works and a survey of contradictory Greil Marcus commentary on Rod's self-evident genius and irrevocable failure, I ended the post with more bad news about the Nature Boy, and I thought that was that. Read: Blood, Belts, Ric Flair/Rod Stewart, Poetry, Sex

Under prescription-uppers, I’ve researched and composed a long follow-up to that first post on a different blog: Piss Christ + Pigfuck: A Companion Piece

First came a poem about Serrano's Piss Christ by Andrew Hudgins, a poet whose work I've long-loved and whom I was happy to see heartily and blurb-ily endorse Brett Eugene Ralph. Then came a news story about Piss Christ's desecration, and soon thereafter an abandonment of Greil Marcus’ quotation about Rod. I proceeded to Richard Meltzer and Byron Coley’s dissatisfaction with Robert Christgau, and then, finally, a lot of digging around and riffing on “pigfucker” and pigfuck.” Christgau was also a Rod-worshipper for a moment, and his acolyte and subsequent freestanding rock scribe Chuck Eddy followed in his footsteps by advocating, formally defining and thereby demeaning the musicians branded with the "pigfuck" designation. The attempted definition is included in the post alongside countervailing observations from preferred writers and insightful fans. Digging around the blogs will demonstrate that I continued to check out the origins and diffusion of "pigfuck" until almost 4am. I am not proud. Without saying 'c' or 'n/c' to the term, one hears a variety of interesting voices and is forced to consider the nature of one's love of noise-rock in an odd context. Maybe that's not your idea of fun, though?

Either way, this thread rose from the dead yesterday and you all deserve to know.

[P.J. Craven]

Rod. Ric pretends to be cool, Rod used to be cool.

[DrAwkward]

Ric pretends to be cool

You're going into a figure-four next time i see you.

Unless you were just talking about current-day Flair, because currently he's trying a little too hard, i'll confess.

[Andy]

Ric pretends to be cool

You're going into a figure-four next time i see you.

Unless you were just talking about current-day Flair, because currently he's trying a little too hard, i'll confess.

Why is Ric Flair any different than someone on a reality TV show?

[alex maiolo]

Both men are struggling you say? Rod Stewart may be sucking artistically, but he's selling records and enjoying massive success. Housewives faint for the man and he's selling tickets.

OK, to the 'dome:

Both go "woooo," but in different ways.
Both have choked voices, but in different ways.
Both preen and strut like roosters.
Both have shocking and recognizable hair.
Both live extravagantly.
Both have embodied excess in some way.
Both are loved by the lay-dehs, albeit very different lay-dehs.

Flair has an advantage because he's just always been Ric Flair. He was born to play the roll of himself.

Stewart made incredible records with fantastic musicians AND almost went pro playing football, but he turned his back on all of that and went downhill and then more downhill. Plus he's a prick for keeping any of the Faces reunions from happening.

I have to go with Stewart. He was on some truly fantastic records and that live footage from Sounds For Saturday is some of the most joy inspiring rock and damn roll I've ever seen. Also, the Faces had a pub on stage with them. Wow.

Major waffles because you know what you get with Flair.

Stewart WF:8

-A

[Dovey]

It seems like a lot of the votes for Stewart are basically applauding him for his mere presence on great records, for basically being in the room while excellent musicians did excellent things. Everything that Flair did, he did.

[windofpain]

ric flair broke his back in a plane crash and went on to be the best wrestler in the goddamned world for like 25 years, then another 5 or 6 years of being impossibly good in the ring after that, rod stewart hasn't made a record worth its weight since like 1973.

[DrAwkward]

Ric pretends to be cool

You're going into a figure-four next time i see you.

Unless you were just talking about current-day Flair, because currently he's trying a little too hard, i'll confess.

Why is Ric Flair any different than someone on a reality TV show?

Um, because he's the dirtiest player in the game?

Because he spent a huge chunk of his life constantly on the road literally bleeding for his fans in live arenas worldwide?

Because he's fucking Ric Flair, and reality stars are not?

I don't even understand this question you're asking, man. WTF.

[Andy]

Because he's fucking Ric Flair, and reality stars are not?

I don't even understand this question you're asking, man. WTF.

So, he's just a long-lived badass reality TV star.

'cause if there's a difference between pro wrestling and any other reality TV show, beside the physical aspect, I don't know what it is.

[deep.BTUz]

Because he's fucking Ric Flair, and reality stars are not?

I don't even understand this question you're asking, man. WTF.

So, he's just a long-lived badass reality TV star.

'cause if there's a difference between pro wrestling and any other reality TV show, beside the physical aspect, I don't know what it is.

Um, whether you like it, or you don't like it, learn to live it, because it's the best thing going today. Wooo!

[DrAwkward]

Because he's fucking Ric Flair, and reality stars are not?

I don't even understand this question you're asking, man. WTF.

So, he's just a long-lived badass reality TV star.

'cause if there's a difference between pro wrestling and any other reality TV show, beside the physical aspect, I don't know what it is.

Maybe read up a bit on the subject and then come back to me.

[alex maiolo]

It seems like a lot of the votes for Stewart are basically applauding him for his mere presence on great records, for basically being in the room while excellent musicians did excellent things.

While that is a talent, aligning with John Baldry, Jeff Group, Faces, and the earliest version of the Kinks, these things don't happen by accident. You've made your own luck when lightning strikes five times, and it happened because he was good. He was a great singer and an excellent front man. It's not like he didn't write his own songs either. Dude wrote great songs!

Then he gave it all up to sing pap.

-A

[Andy]

'cause if there's a difference between pro wrestling and any other reality TV show, beside the physical aspect, I don't know what it is.

Maybe read up a bit on the subject and then come back to me.

Give me a clue what I'd be looking for. Give me the thumbnail version.

[Domagoj]

Ric Flair? Who!?

Sorry guys, American pro wrestling is bloody awful. Gross.

Roddy, even when he was fading away from sight.

[DrAwkward]

'cause if there's a difference between pro wrestling and any other reality TV show, beside the physical aspect, I don't know what it is.

Maybe read up a bit on the subject and then come back to me.

Give me a clue what I'd be looking for. Give me the thumbnail version.

Any autobiography. Chris Jericho's A Lion's Tale, Ric Flair's To Be the Man, etc. Read the story about Flair wrestling local hero Jack Veneno in the Dominican Republic for the NWA World Title with Roddy Piper in his corner. As legend has it, the locals were freaking out that the world champ was defending against their local hero (this was in the early 80s when many fans still believed the outcomes weren't predetermined) to the point that their national guard was called in to prevent outside interference. When Piper tried to interfere, the armed guards pointed rifles at his head.

The whole story's in Flair's book and it's amazing. But yeah, it's no different than Survivor, i'm sure, because they have live weapons pointed at them occasionally.

[DrAwkward]

'cause if there's a difference between pro wrestling and any other reality TV show, beside the physical aspect, I don't know what it is.

Maybe read up a bit on the subject and then come back to me.

Give me a clue what I'd be looking for. Give me the thumbnail version.

Any autobiography. Chris Jericho's A Lion's Tale, Ric Flair's To Be the Man, etc. Read the story about Flair wrestling local hero Jack Veneno in the Dominican Republic for the NWA World Title with Roddy Piper in his corner. As legend has it, the locals were freaking out that the world champ was defending against their local hero (this was in the early 80s when many fans still believed the outcomes weren't predetermined) to the point that their national guard was called in to prevent outside interference. When Piper tried to interfere, the armed guards pointed rifles at his head.

The whole story's in Flair's book and it's amazing. But yeah, it's no different than Survivor, i'm sure, because they have live weapons pointed at them occasionally.

Honestly, for all the similarities between independent wrestling and DIY punk rock (long travel hours for shit pay, family members questioning your "hobby," etc), i don't know why more indie rockers aren't wrestling fans.

[whoisalhedges]

Ric Flair was never in the Faces.

[Andy]

When Piper tried to interfere, the armed guards pointed rifles at his head.

So you're talking about what it takes to create the art, rather than the art itself. To me, that's irrelevant.

My comparison was between WWF/WWE shows and, say, The Bachelor: Scripted so as to maximize the false drama being presented, while maintaining the polite fiction of being "real". At least wrestling fans understand what's what, where reality TV fans do not, based on what I see on the covers of the checkout stand magazines.

[DrAwkward]

When Piper tried to interfere, the armed guards pointed rifles at his head.

So you're talking about what it takes to create the art, rather than the art itself. To me, that's irrelevant.

My comparison was between WWF/WWE shows and, say, The Bachelor: Scripted so as to maximize the false drama being presented, while maintaining the polite fiction of being "real". At least wrestling fans understand what's what, where reality TV fans do not, based on what I see on the covers of the checkout stand magazines.

TV shows are the centerpiece of major promotions, but are only one facet of wrestling as an art. That you're limiting your comparison to WWE shows illustrates how out of your element you are discussing it.

'cause if there's a difference between pro wrestling and any other reality TV show, beside the physical aspect, I don't know what it is.

Do NOT conflate the WWE with all of "professional wrestling," which apparently you did.