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The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.)

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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby alex maiolo on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:37 am

Said it before, will say it again:

Charge a dime for a song.

At work, and want to play "Bitch" by the Rolling Stones, because you just want to hear it? Hard drive, iPod, or laptop at home? Amazed that your friend has never heard "No Fun?"
You'll just buy it again to avoid the hassle and to get it now. It's less than a jukebox play, and you get to keep it on your work computer and listen to it again.

Most people are going to go this route, rather than scour the internet for a crappy copy. Your time is worth more than that. And the kids who still use download sites? They're doing it for a different reason anyway.

With Spotify on the scene that may not work as well now, but they should have done it years ago. Now, once again, the music industry is in Reaction Mode, when they could have addressed it in advance. It still might work though. No ads, high quality sound.

It will "rain dimes." You may remember the guy who siphoned off all of the fractions of cents "left over" from interest calculations? He was a millionaire within weeks. I'm not saying anyone's going to get that rich, but I think the money would stack up fast. Anyone would take a chance on a song for a dime. A dollar is actually worth something in people's minds. People won't walk across a room to pick up a dime.

Find the intersection of "so cheap it doesn't matter" and "could actually stack up on the back end" and go from there.

-A

-A
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby bishopdante on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:39 am

bishopdante wrote:the commercial media more beholden to industrial sponsors than at any other point in history.


excepting the two world wars.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby turnbullac on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:29 am

Downloads will go away. Everything is already "in the cloud" so soon it will be redundant to even own your own copy of anything. It will translate into all kinds of other things like videos, games, news, etc. merging our social networks with the broadcast and delivery of all kinds of information. This architecture really may be a defining paradigm for the future. Whomever controls these apparatuses will be the ones making money off the content, mostly from advertisers and other corporate sources rather than the individual users. Thus the perceived value of the content will be basically nil, because there won't be any scarcity involved as everything will be available at the click of a mouse.

The "music industry" is already finally changing its focus from the shipping and selling of physical goods to the service oriented aspects of licensing, marketing, and promotions, even on the "indie" level. The effort now, is in getting attention amid all the noise that's out there.

Will any of this trickle down to the bedroom artist? Probably not, but most of us will make do somehow.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby scntfc on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:34 am

alex maiolo wrote:Find the intersection of "so cheap it doesn't matter" and "could actually stack up on the back end" and go from there.

-A


yes! but i'd add one more factor: make it easy. really, really easy. if you are connected to the internet via computer, phone, xbox, tv, car, etc. there should be a metaphorical "buy me" button within reach whenever you hear a song. how about voice control? how about we just get to say "buy this" out loud and it charges you ten cents and shows up in the "you just bought this awesome shit from the internet" folder on your cloud drive.

shazam is pretty close. hear a song, analyze it, and it gives you a link to itunes. which is fine but, i'd bet they lose 100+ sales when people see the itunes logo and their mind flashes "$1". but a dime? maybe even 20 cents? easy money.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby alex maiolo on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:39 pm

scntfc wrote:
alex maiolo wrote:Find the intersection of "so cheap it doesn't matter" and "could actually stack up on the back end" and go from there.

-A


yes! but i'd add one more factor: make it easy. really, really easy. if you are connected to the internet via computer, phone, xbox, tv, car, etc. there should be a metaphorical "buy me" button within reach whenever you hear a song. how about voice control? how about we just get to say "buy this" out loud and it charges you ten cents and shows up in the "you just bought this awesome shit from the internet" folder on your cloud drive.

shazam is pretty close. hear a song, analyze it, and it gives you a link to itunes. which is fine but, i'd bet they lose 100+ sales when people see the itunes logo and their mind flashes "$1". but a dime? maybe even 20 cents? easy money.


Mitch Easter refers to any gear under 100 bucks as "free," which I think is hilarious.
"Hey, did you see those free Danelectro pedals that are out now?"
Just as 100 bucks means something on big purchases, $1 does on small ones. I think the "free" point is somewhere under a quarter. I mentioned earlier that Sandy Perlman sold me on this idea. And yes, scntfc, making it easy is the way to go.
"Wow, I like this song"
BLAM! owned.

-A
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby bishopdante on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:44 pm

scntfc wrote:20 cents?


Per track? That's more than EMI paid the beatles. One would have to take 50 years of inflation into account though. I just bought 2 chicken breasts for £7 in Tesco. A fact I find ridiculous.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby alex maiolo on Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:32 am

bishopdante wrote:
scntfc wrote:20 cents?


Per track? That's more than EMI paid the beatles. One would have to take 50 years of inflation into account though. I just bought 2 chicken breasts for £7 in Tesco. A fact I find ridiculous.


The point is to *not* take inflation into account.
Make it so cheap it's a no brainer. If chicken breasts could be replicated for free, and Teisco could sell them, online, at the push of a button, in seconds, the world would be eating a shit ton of chicken breasts in no time.

-A
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Sid Hartha on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:33 am

Interesting discussion so far. I haven't read through all the posts yet, but has anyone pasted that Eno quote yet?
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby tallchris on Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:56 am

John W. wrote:I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by Axl and Slash.


Band: http://policeteeth.bandcamp.com
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby AnthonyCinder on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:13 pm

tallchris wrote:NPR intern Emily White writes "I Never Owned Any Music To Begin With".

David Lowery responds.


You greedy bastards killed Vic Chestnutt!
How come when it's us, it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette? - George Carlin

http://www.cinderconemusic.com
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Auntie Ovipositor on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:36 pm

AnthonyCinder wrote:
tallchris wrote:NPR intern Emily White writes "I Never Owned Any Music To Begin With".

David Lowery responds.


You greedy bastards killed Vic Chestnutt!


Yeah. Wow.

Also:
“It’s OK not to pay for music because record companies rip off artists and do not pay artists anything.” In the vast majority of cases, this is not true. There have been some highly publicized abuses by record labels. But most record contracts specify royalties and advances to artists. Advances are important to understand–a prepayment of unearned royalties. Not a debt, more like a bet. The artist only has to “repay” (or “recoup”) the advance from record sales. If there are no or insufficient record sales, the advance is written off by the record company. So it’s false to say that record companies don’t pay artists. Most of the time they not only pay artists, but they make bets on artists. And it should go without saying that the bets will get smaller and fewer the more unrecouped advances are paid by labels.


I'm pretty sure that slogan is stitched into the jacket you get when you sign your first A&R deal with a major.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Mason on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:51 pm

David Lowery really wants it to be 1999 again.

I can't wait for Alex Maiolo's "make it rain dimes" to be the new status quo.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Luzwei on Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:55 pm

I used my first SHAN'T in a sentence today, courtesy of this article!
lemur68 wrote:A bite from a Lu Zworis is also highly venomous.


I Joe 4 play.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby righthanded on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:09 pm

NPR: Why pay for music if I can get it for free?
NPR: Help NPR by participating in our ongoing 61 week pledge drive!

The fuck?
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby AnthonyCinder on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:22 pm

I'm going to go illegally download a Cracker song right now and then not listen to it ever.
How come when it's us, it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette? - George Carlin

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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby steve on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:25 pm

AnthonyCinder wrote:
tallchris wrote:NPR intern Emily White writes "I Never Owned Any Music To Begin With".

David Lowery responds.


You greedy bastards killed Vic Chestnutt!

The two examples Lowery uses, Chestnutt and Sparklehorse, are prime examples of bands induced into living above their means and ending up in sharecropper status. Sure they had a money tit for a while, but when it becomes obvious to the money people your band's sales can't pay for quarter-million dollar recording budgets, then those budgets go away along with the other slush money those bands get to take advantage of.

It's not the fault of the audience that they were in a game rigged to induce wild, unsustainable expectations.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby Luzwei on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:30 pm

steve wrote:
AnthonyCinder wrote:
tallchris wrote:NPR intern Emily White writes "I Never Owned Any Music To Begin With".

David Lowery responds.


You greedy bastards killed Vic Chestnutt!

The two examples Lowery uses, Chestnutt and Sparklehorse, are prime examples of bands induced into living above their means and ending up in sharecropper status. Sure they had a money tit for a while, but when it becomes obvious to the money people your band's sales can't pay for quarter-million dollar recording budgets, then those budgets go away along with the other slush money those bands get to take advantage of.

It's not the fault of the audience that they were in a game rigged to induce wild, unsustainable expectations.


and the lowest point is the University professor directly blaming the downloading community for that.
lemur68 wrote:A bite from a Lu Zworis is also highly venomous.


I Joe 4 play.
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby AnthonyCinder on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:56 pm

steve wrote:
AnthonyCinder wrote:
tallchris wrote:NPR intern Emily White writes "I Never Owned Any Music To Begin With".

David Lowery responds.


You greedy bastards killed Vic Chestnutt!

The two examples Lowery uses, Chestnutt and Sparklehorse, are prime examples of bands induced into living above their means and ending up in sharecropper status. Sure they had a money tit for a while, but when it becomes obvious to the money people your band's sales can't pay for quarter-million dollar recording budgets, then those budgets go away along with the other slush money those bands get to take advantage of.

It's not the fault of the audience that they were in a game rigged to induce wild, unsustainable expectations.


And now that the money tit has been rescinded, the baby cries.
How come when it's us, it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette? - George Carlin

http://www.cinderconemusic.com
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby alex maiolo on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:28 pm

A friend sent this to me on the Facebooks today and in the name of laziness, Im'na just gonna do this:

On FB, responding to my friend Josh, I wrote:The thing that always gets lost in these conversations is that the new way of doing things is the new way of doing things, however, regardless of what we *want*, and it's incredibly difficult to fight. SOPA clearly isn't the way to do it. Most of the ways musicians get paid are based on ancient models. The term "mechanical royalty" has it's roots in something literally mechanical - it's from back when publishers were scared *player pianos* were going to sink the music industry. I blame the music industry for not treating with care the goose that laid the golden egg. Neither here nor there, at this point, because the genie is out of the bottle, and people are going to seek out "free" music now - it's just how it is. You can't sue them into going back to the old way, and morality means so many different things to so many different people that it's a complicated discussion. It's hard to go backwards at this point and I fear all we can do is adapt. As with most paradigm shifts, the old guard will find it hard to do that, there will be an ugly shakedown period (which we are in right now) and it will eventually get figured out. I don't know what that will be or I'd right a book. It's even possible that musicians will go back to being like all other artists - broke as a joke, only doing it for love and more localized. Rock is one of the only art forms ever to be successfully monetized and maybe we're just at the end of that period, though I hope not. I'm optimistic because there are still so many ways to do that. The same technology that can kill you - in this case copying music quickly and sharing it - might save you (more people can hear you and you can distribute your own music, no gatekeeper needed). I doubt anyone will ever get Fleetwood Mac rich again, but hopefully more people will find a way to participate. Hopefully the cream will rise to the top, even though shit floats too.


I really do hope that people can still make money off of playing rock music. It's great work if you can get it. Not to pick on Lowery, because he's just one of the many to speak up but please, any of you, tell me how to fix this. Lowery gives examples of why you need to protect the thing you love and how you can do your part, but really, how many people are going to see this and how many of those relatively few people are going to follow his suggestions?
No, someone needs to actively implement something that's 90% no brainer and 10% morally the right thing to do. They need to make it so it's more easy to do the moral thing, support your favorite rocker, or however you see it, than it is not to. I've already endorsed what I think the solution is, but that's a tough sell because
a) Record companies aren't behind it. Their self preservation tactics are exactly what will kill them deader than they already are
-and-
b) There are still plenty of artists who think they are owed something, they might win the lottery or a combination of the two. They think this rather than "wow, rock music is the only art form where it's possible to make some money if I do it right and I need to figure out what works right now, in 2012."

Thinking "b" is tantamount to yelling at the iceberg for being unfair as the ship goes down. The lifeboat isn't as luxurious as the ship, but it might just keep you alive and at the very least, give you some time to think of another plan.

Meanwhile legions of bands continue to make music because they really enjoy it...

-A
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Re: The Problem With Music: Still a Problem (Cracker/CVB ed.

Postby alex maiolo on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:30 pm

Luzwei wrote:I used my first SHAN'T in a sentence today, courtesy of this article!


Careful, it's just a short step away from a shart.

-A
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