Session Drummers

[deservedlament]

Hey guys

I have a collection of melodic, heavy songs I want to record. I play guitar and do vocals, and I have a bassist. We have about 6-8 songs that we would like to record at the end of March (hopefully at Electrical). But we dont have a drummer, and obviously, we really need one. But we want to record these songs, regardless of whether we have a full-time drummer or not. We were wondering how we go about hooking up with a session drummer? We're from Virginia, so we live no where near Electrical Audio. How does a session drummer work? Would we need to have practices before hand? Or can he just work off of demos I have?

Thanks guys

Bobby
Transpose

[c.gymer]

Get a real drummer, then record.

No, actually, get a real drummer, practice you collective butts off, then (if you feel genuinely ready) record.

There is no point in just getting someone in to play along to your stuff. A proper drummer (full time) would bring something to your recording and your songs, a dep wouldn't.

Trust me, you will regret not having your own drummer.

[johnnyshape]

Get a real drummer, then record.

No, actually, get a real drummer, practice you collective butts off, then (if you feel genuinely ready) record.

There is no point in just getting someone in to play along to your stuff. A proper drummer (full time) would bring something to your recording and your songs, a dep wouldn't.

Trust me, you will regret not having your own drummer.

I disagree with most of this. This is the ideal, yes, but the best musicians can bring huge amounts to an ensemble recording, they can push your vision further out (man) than you could imagine, in one take. I've met some non-asshole, intelligent, near-punk-rocker professional musicians who are absolutely staggering performers. It's just glorious to watch people like that work. However, finding and paying such people is difficult. It's a field studded with technique and bitterness in equal measure. In this murky wank of a career, the ONLY way to find good people is through personal recommendations. A semi-true rule of thumb: if they have to advertise, they aren't good enough.

My much more punk rock advice is think of the drummer you would like to have on the recording, and then go ask ask them to do it. Think of a few vaguely approachable bands whose drummer does the sort of thing you'd like. You'd be surprised how many people in 'known' bands would be flattered and/or broke. Then:

Ask them nicely. Explain exactly what you want. Make sure they or their band don't think you're trying to poach them.

Rehearse with them once. See if it's going to work. Make them an offer: whatever you can afford. Rehearse with them as many times as is necessary before the recording. This depends on how complicated your music is, how good you are, and how good he is. I'm assuming it's a he. Hey ho. Go and record. If you find the right person, and you all hit it off well, the results could well be excellent.

The following are the drumming truisms I have found over the years:

Good band drumming is hard and difficult, even for good drummers.

Good drummers are hard to find.

Good drummers will rarely be out of work or interesting offers.

Good girl drummers will never, ever be out of work or an interesting band as long as they live.

[c.gymer]

I can totaly understand your post, but if you were going to spend a couple of grand on travelling halfway across the country to make a record, wouldn't you want to have the best recording/performance's you could get?

I don't disagree with what your suggesting per say, but I would think that a well rehearsed band with their shit together would be a far more effective unit than 3 friends and a drummer who they've known for two days.

As a drummer myself (that sounds so pretentious I know, but it's not intended that way), I know that I would feel more comfortable in my ability to contribute and add to the song if i had ample time to prepare.

The best performances always come from good preparation by all of those involved in a recording, and as you hinted at with your drummer experiences, a good drummer goes a long way, but an under prepared band will sound rubbish no matter how good the drummer. Because of this I think these chaps would benefit from taking the time to find a drummer for their band, rather than jump right in and spend all their hard earned money on an end product that no one can possibly predict the quality of.

[Bennett Williams]

I can totaly understand your post, but if you were going to spend a couple of grand on travelling halfway across the country to make a record, wouldn't you want to have the best recording/performance's you could get?

I don't disagree with what your suggesting per say, but I would think that a well rehearsed band with their shit together would be a far more effective unit than 3 friends and a drummer who they've known for two days.

As a drummer myself (that sounds so pretentious I know, but it's not intended that way), I know that I would feel more comfortable in my ability to contribute and add to the song if i had ample time to prepare.

The best performances always come from good preparation by all of those involved in a recording, and as you hinted at with your drummer experiences, a good drummer goes a long way, but an under prepared band will sound rubbish no matter how good the drummer. Because of this I think these chaps would benefit from taking the time to find a drummer for their band, rather than jump right in and spend all their hard earned money on an end product that no one can possibly predict the quality of.

I have to agree. I like doing session work, but I think the best performances really do come from a group that has put the time in for preparation beforehand. That being said; I think if the music is relatively easy to play as well as to follow, it can be done with minimal rehearsal time. If the music is something like Frank Zappa on the other hand, it will take some time to nail it down. But I digress... Find a drummer first and get your performance quality to the best it can be. Then prepare for recording.

[Mayfair]

Although, yeah, it would be better to have a drummer who knows all the twists and turns of your songs and arrangements and is locked in with your bass player, it can probably work well with a good drummer and Chicago is full of great drummers. I don't know what your music sounds like and 'heavy' could mean a lot of very different things. There are great drummers that could probably with a day or two of rehearsal catch on to what you are looking for (unless your are very complicated like Don Cab or the like). I have seen Jim Kimball do great in these sort of situations.... there is also a great drummer named Daren Garvey who is a very fast learner and good musical drummer. Actually the more I think of it the more great drummers I can think of that would probably be good at it. Chris Manfrin, Brendan Murphy, Pat Samson, that guy who works at Lula (what's his name?), etc. It would not be my first choice to do such a thing with someone I did not know until the day before the sessions but it certainly is an option if that is what you need to do. I would think it would be a nice thing to pay for the drummer's time.

[scott]

Hey Bobby,

Are you guys in NOVA, or Richmond, or where? Do you have a MySpace page with examples of the songs?

The reason I ask is because I know a drummer in the DC area that would be a great guy for the job. There are, I'm guessing, three key things. One, he'd have to be interested. Two, what are the details of the timing of your trip? i.e. how long would he have to be out of town/ taking days off of his 9-5 job? Three, would he get paid?

This is a guy that can basically play anything, and he's a cool guy, too.

He's a phenomenal drummer, and with my last band when I lived in DC, never having heard our songs before, he was melting our faces after the second or third time through, moreso than the drummer that had played songs with us for months. As far as "heavy" drumming goes, he can play or outplay the best of them.

If you're close enough to DC, you guys could even prepare out there and everything.

I don't mean to get your hopes up, because he's just a friend of mine, so I can't speak for him.

Details about your timeframe and whether or not you plan on paying for a session guy, and a link to some of your songs would be great. I'd love for him to drag his ass out to Chicago so I could buy some berrs!

[M_a_x]

This thread brings to mind a very amusing story I have, from the early 90s.
My band at the time had scrimped and saved 1000 bucks to use this studio for a weekend. Saturday morning, we were all there setting up except for the drummer, who phoned the studio with some REALLY LAME excuse if I recall, like he had to go to his Aunt's birthday party at some shithole town a couple hours away. The studio owner/engineer, an old fat guy, told us he was a drummer who in fact was in a band that OPENED for FOGHAT back in the day. Looking back, he was probably scared we'd ask for our money back and walk out the door, but we thought he was really nice and so he went and got his drums (a sweeet Pearl kit I remember), set up and played along with us!
Our stuff at that time was kinda mechanical noise-rock (Jesus Lizard, NoMeansNo, but simpler...maybe Helmet is more appropriate) so we just told him to keep a basic beat with the bass player and it'd be alright. But he didn't, he freaking GROOVED everything. It was really strange. After the weekend was up and we listened, we were kinda unhappy but now I think it's the best thing we ever did! It sounded so unlike everyone else in our town because of the grooves.

This little anecdote probably isn't helping anything one way or the other. Well, didn't Dylan just use a bunch of Minneapolis session men for Blonde on Blonde - guys that were used to playing for commercials and the like? I think it depends on the music. I have a group of songs where I think it'd be fairly easy for another drummer to come in and play, while I have other kinds of songs where the LAST member of the band I'd give up would be the drummer. In general, I think session men are pros because they can easily adapt and figure out what to play at any given time for whatever the song requires. It'd be different than working out with your own drummer, sure, but I don't know if it'd be necessarily a 100 percent EVIL malignant growth on the final product.

"WE OPENED FOR FOGHAT ONCE"

[Mayfair]

I think there is a similar story about Gary Newman and the Tubway Army, yes?

[nick92675]

that guy who works at Lula (what's his name?)

Theo Katsaounis. now he is a badass drummer. he learned all of the zzzz's songs in like 4 days when greg sharp (also great drummer in town) hurt his back before thier record release show. that's some intense don cab shit.

like the foghat guy story - it'd be cool to do, but you'd have to go in understanding you're probably not going to get 100% of what you had in your head, but thier individual interpreation.

right now i'm learning a band's songs to fill in some shows for them and i can't help but play the way i do - which is different than the last guy, or some other dude too. i sort of take the approach of what if i just heard this in practice for the first time - how would i play it, instead of mimicking the original part.

oh yes also Shane Hochstetler from call me lightning/haymarket riot. slays my face every time.

[andteater]

hahah.

theo!

but i think mayfair may be talking about ryan rapsies who worked a lula for awhile and is by far the best "technical" drummer i've ever seen.

and my god, everybody go see the new Euphone lineup. it's amazing.

andyk

[Mayfair]

hahah.

theo!

but i think mayfair may be talking about ryan rapsies who worked a lula for awhile and is by far the best "technical" drummer i've ever seen.

No, I know who Ryan is. And yes, he is a great drummer too. In the other post I did mean the guy with a beard that serves coffee. Saw him play a few weeks ago... top notch!

[andteater]

oh ok, then theo it is.

and yes, he is top notch. he is also pretty funny. and very hairy!

andyk

[cgarges]

you'd have to go in understanding you're probably not going to get 100% of what you had in your head, but thier individual interpreation.

What's different about this versus actually having a guy in your band? I would think that with a GOOD session drummer, you might actually have an easier time getting what you want instead of what the guy playing wants than just having someone in your band that has an emotional, financial, or egotistical investment in the band and his own playing within those circumstances. I'm not saying that session drummers are the way to go or anything, but they provide a service, much like a recording engineer and good ones will be able to deliver whatever the person paying them wants.

The person paying them is certainly at an advatage if he chooses someone whose playing he already appreciates, but that's the same case with finding a full-time drummer for a band situation.

People can either interpret somneone else's wishes or they can't. Just because someone chooses to either play with a limited number of people or a bunch of different ones doesn't absolutely dictate whether or not they're capable of doing so.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

[nick92675]

you'd have to go in understanding you're probably not going to get 100% of what you had in your head, but thier individual interpreation.

What's different about this versus actually having a guy in your band? I would think that with a GOOD session drummer, you might actually have an easier time getting what you want instead of what the guy playing wants than just having someone in your band that has an emotional, financial, or egotistical investment in the band and his own playing within those circumstances. I'm not saying that session drummers are the way to go or anything, but they provide a service, much like a recording engineer and good ones will be able to deliver whatever the person paying them wants.

The person paying them is certainly at an advatage if he chooses someone whose playing he already appreciates, but that's the same case with finding a full-time drummer for a band situation.

People can either interpret somneone else's wishes or they can't. Just because someone chooses to either play with a limited number of people or a bunch of different ones doesn't absolutely dictate whether or not they're capable of doing so.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

well - i see your point. i might not be a good session drummer in that sense. at the same time the drummers who most impress me are those who i couldnt fathom playing thier parts like they do and similarly i think i play a little different than others. perhaps completely delusional thinking, but whatever. in my view, yes - the session drummer would be like hiring someone to be in your band for a week instead of hiring a human drum machine. it was my perception that the original poster wanted a real band dude in the best of all possible worlds.

what if deservedlament had the means to get dave grohl for this job? wouldn't everyone involved say - hey dave - here are the songs, run with it? we were thinking something sorta maybe like this, but you know - you are dave grohl and all, so i defer to you on the drum decisions. i'll take care of the arranging and such, but you've been playing drums for ages and probably knows what works best for you in given circumstances so i'll let you do your thing. would anyone dictate specific fills or expect him to mimic thier pre-determined parts? i'd think that'd be not taking the best advantage of your resource by clipping thier creativity.

i don't particularly like how this is coming out in type as it sounds a bit more harsh or absolutist than i mean it to be.

perhaps we're both saying trust the professional? don't micromanage the situation? or perhaps that's just what i'm saying.

best,
nick