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Re: dadness

Postby seanurban on Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:26 pm

Give it up for Kyle, everyone! He makes reading look easy. His attention span surpasses mine for sure.
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Re: dadness

Postby jimmy spako on Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:57 am

Tom wrote:We were at the pool last weekend. There were two little twinish boys (around 3) playing with a ball in the water with their mom. Kids got distracted like kids do in a pool and started doing something else. My 3 year old went over and started playing with it.

One of the kids started screaming. His douchebag mom went over to my 3 year old and grabbed it out of her hand and said "He was playing with that" (these are free to use balls at the pool, not theirs). My 3 year old was just like, whatever - and started doing something else. She didn't seem bothered by it and I really don't like intervening with their play unless there is a real reason to.

Well, like 5 minutes later, some little 2 year old champ just ran up grabbed it out of his hands and too off running to the sand box. Douchebag mom was two slow to catch him and the Champs parents did a real half hearted "give it back" before they just let it go.

the twinish looking kids just started freaking out, like almost going into seizures - both of them. The douchebag mom packed them up in their double wide stroller (really? a stroller for 3 year olds at the pool, it's like 30 feet to the parking lot?) and left.

I went over and gave the champs parents my contact info so we can set up some dates for our kids when they get older. I need that kid as my son-in-law.

That's my kid story for tonight. No lessons or anything, just some good old fashion schadenfreude.


Big grin on my face over here, very funny.

FM Simmo recently quipped elsewhere "L'enfer, c'est les autres parents" (hell is other parents).

I just got up at six and spent the first three hours of my day with my boy, while mom got some more sleep. Hanging out in my studio/office listening to tapes and LPs and testing some gear. Good times.
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Re: dadness

Postby the finger genius on Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:17 am

seanurban wrote:Give it up for Kyle, everyone! He makes reading look easy. His attention span surpasses mine for sure.


He's also pretty good on the skins.

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jimmy two hands wrote:Then we all log off internet and eat nachos. All is well.

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Re: dadness

Postby bumble on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:45 pm

GUYS! GUYS!

My kid is great. She is really fab. Pretty strong-willed, though.

Now, it doesn't faze me too much. I mean, try to make me do what you want me to do, small fry. (Her father can NOT deal, though.)

Anyway.

The SCREAMING. Oh my sweet baby Jesus. Last night, an hour and a half of it because I wouldn't do bedtime (and then let her sleep) in my bed.

I slept on her floor last night. I'm googling "positive discipline strong-willed child", "positive discipline screaming".

Good things: I'm not losing MY temper. But holy shit! Her screaming (hitting, kicking, biting, spitting) will subside...eventually...right?

Halp?
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Re: dadness

Postby Boombats on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:49 pm

nope, send it back
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Re: dadness

Postby Janeway on Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:04 pm

never acknowledge a tantrum. act calm and tough like a marine or a mob boss super cool and tough like "cut the crap". she's learning the way of the world. she can scream her face off, but she'll eventually stop. she'll only think that works if it actually does work so dont spoil her by catering to her bad attitude, instead let her cry like they do with training newborns how to sleep and get yourself through it somehow because its more heartbreaking if you give in than if you dont, just remember


if she hits and bites talk loudly and sternly and in a disciplinary way like " ouch youre hurting me, that hurts. okay you want to hurt me? or try following the rules?" and your kid loves you and wont want to be hurting you and will stop eventualement i promise but gd, keep taking the hits because its for her character development, lest she become like trump tantrumming away on twitter.you can always do time out to cool her jets.

and when shes good and doesnt scream for a whole week you can always reward big afterwards like chocolate chip pancake breakfast or skip school day and go to the zoo or something and she'll prefer life being pals and cooperating

parents dont let your kids sleep in the bed if you ever want to have sex again ever. besides what about morning woodness? i dont know how it works with dadnesses but like, kids got their own bed since the crib, keep them there. except for when you guys speciifically want cuddles and when they nap and youre awake but mostly they have to know your bedroom is your place they cant trample over and that youre queen and king and cant be tramped over either, kinda thing. youre the reiging authority in this game of thrones family structure. be stronger than they are haha cause kids go through cooperative and rebellious phases...

newborns dependent until 1 when they start walking and grabbing and getting into shit and its almost a mini rebellion except they usually get burnt or injured and come crying back and respect authority again until puberty when they got the hang of their suburban fishtank neihgborhood and realize parents dont know dick and hate them with every last hormone theyve got raging until the real world when they realize strangers suck and staying alive can be tough and they appreciate being born and looked after, so you just gotta ride out those tantrum years.

kids should be born with a tag that says "someday i will hate you. but i promise its really love and more of it and leveled understanding afterwards"so just let it be, your reward is when she has kids, that's why moms always talk about their daughters putting beans in the oven, they wanna watch them squirm and suck at the job we teased them for doing all those years.
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Re: dadness

Postby Tom on Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:40 pm

Bumble... remember when your elise and my elise were born and you got your Elise the awesome light up turtle that did LSD tripping Aurora Borealis light light shows synched up to Carl Orff and I got my elise the shitty one that just does stars?

Remember that?

Looks like I made the right call.

Just remember that you won't win every battle. Frankly, you might not win the war. But look at Japan, they lost and things went great for them, the US too. So acknowledging defeat and signing unconditional surrender might be the best option for you if you want to have a strong economy.

Also, did you ever consider that maybe she's right and she should be sleeping in bed with you? Every kid is different. Don't try to force your nature on them.

In 20 years, the standard might be kids sleep in bed with mom and dad until their 5 and that letting your kids sleep on their own is roughly equivalent to being a klansman. You could be a freedom rider here, but you're just so dead set on burning that cross.


OK...

It's got to be shit rough dealing with that in an apartment. Like, it drives me nuts hearing my jr monster when she's in her fuck sleep cycle, but I know that it's just me and my wife who have to listen to it (and poor elise who shares a room with her and deals with it like a champ). But in an apartment where you need to be considerate of neighbors, yeah - a hard line just isn't always practical. And it's fucking draining. On a good night when I'm prepared for it, I can do about 2 hours of tantrum warfare before I start losing my shit. But after a long day or on the 3rd consecutive night of it, I just don't have the endurance. And sometimes our jr gets so upset that she starts hyperventilating. That's rare - we usually sit and calm her down before it happens, but it does happen. Those sorts of extremes have never resulted in a stronger resolve to go to sleep. As I joked above, you lose some battles. a 5 year old is equipped to win.

On to the practical that never works:

This has been working for my sleep time nightmare kid lately:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9fny_A198k.
I sit in my study and read while this plays. Their room is adjacent and it's just loud enough and hypnotic that it calms them down. Jr kid insists that I sit in the study while she goes to sleep. It's a fine compromise since I love it in here.

You probably already do this, but it's summer. Make use of it. We got a pool membership this year and go there a ton after work. The kids can't fight much after two hours in the water.

That's the only new stuff I got for you, unless you get another kid. It's a gamble, but our two girls stay up talking for quite a while before bed. They get rowdy of course, but I'd rather listen to rowdy kids than crying ones.
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Re: dadness

Postby Janeway on Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:02 pm

^tom, it sounds like your real-life example of a strong familial economy is good and working and thats so much more valuable advice than just my lame blanket-statement ideas that get thrown out because your own advice is realistic and what really gets folks through the night. things like paying attention to your kids specific needs by considering if they arent ready to sleep separate is what you know as a dadness in your gut and thats always smarter when its your call.

but i was thinking please dont ever be drained. even if you lose battles, a 5 year old should never be tougher than you. if they are, get creative, but be a good example and still someone that just cant be pushed to defeat or you'll be letting down the opportunity to provide a strong role model example. you can be exhausted, but never defeated because they wore you down or thats how they'll get through life bullying and stalking around insisting on stuff and your only relief will be in compromise, but not fairly. my throwaway idea based on nothing is just reward for good behavior. making promises in the moment that get them into bed and then delivering on some great weekend trip or something, then spoiling them and referring to it the next tantrum like "okay fine, you can stay up but oh thats too bad because then that means i have to stay up and ill be too tired to take you to the big fun place this weekend" and its their choice, but it seems like it was their choice to begin with so...

i kinda... sometimes its a gamble.
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Re: dadness

Postby Tom on Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:50 pm

Oh yeah, no doubt what you laid out is a great approach. Don't take anything I had said as a contradiction. But essentially what you're describing is the ideal.

The reality though is that sometimes a 4 year old is tougher than you. They have advantages that we don't. They can scream. They get a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day. They can hit you (I mean, they can't, but they do sometimes). They can every bit as cunning as an adult sans the wisdom of experience. Having kids shouldn't be an adversarial relationship, but it does break down to that at times - like any relationship, I suppose.

If you're talking about a kid that parental compliance is the model they follow, then yeah -those kids are going to be entitled, bullying jerks. But kids defeating adults from time to time, in my opinion is a good thing. I don't want my girls to grow up thinking that they can't defeat me. I want them to be equipped and know that they are equipped to take on challenges - even if it leaves me screaming in a pillow every now and then.

As to rewarding good behavior and not rewarding bad behavior, again the ideal and the reality are often in conflict. For example: my girls are all about going to the pool lately after work\daycare. It's all they want to do. The great thing about the pool is they get worn the f out afterwards and drop like flies when they hit the pillow. If I used that as a reward for good behavior and they don't earn that reward, then I'm setting myself up for a potential battle that night which could end up compounding the problem.

I don't want to sound like I'm coming down on your thoughts because they really are dead on. I just wanted to flesh them out a bit.
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Re: dadness

Postby bumble on Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:48 am

Okay, well, we negotiate and talk and stuff. I believe in having a conversation. I also believe that not engaging in a power struggle means de facto no power struggle. And sure, if what she is asking is reasonable or not that big of a deal, it's almost always fine. If we don't have time or whatever, I talk about why not, and then offer an alternative/talk about something else we could do or will do.

Yep.

Then, there are THOSE times.

The night I was talking about above, everything was going fine until bedtime and then Meine Elise declared she was sleeping in my bed. I was like, hernf? And then she started screaming/hitting/spitting to go and sleep in my bed.

My one big, big absolutely HELL no rule is that there is NO HITTING or yelling at Mama. There was no way she was going to hit and yell and get to sleep in my bed.

"That is not okay. There is no yelling at Mama. There is no hitting Mama."

"I WANT TO SPIT ON EVERYTHING. I WANT TO WRECK EVERYTHING. I WON'T STOP SCREAMING UNTIL YOU DO WHAT I WANT." These are all actual quotes.

Commence: hour of screaming. And admittedly, she continued losing it because she had a little cold and was then overtired.

Eventually, she joined my reading books on the couch. And then eventually, she laid down with me on her floor.

The next morning, we talked about it.

I'm just curious. I don't know what else I can be doing during her meltdowns. And her temper really is something else.
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Re: dadness

Postby the finger genius on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:23 pm

Don't have any solutions here but just wanted to say our 4 year old has the same stuff happening. It gets really scary sometimes and then we have a good week and I wonder if I've been imagining it.
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Re: dadness

Postby Tom on Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:30 pm

Have you tried any professional help like counseling or something like that? It's no fun, but a good one could help parse what's going on and maybe give you some more comprehensive ideas than Santo & Johnny.
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Re: dadness

Postby Anthony Flack on Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:52 am

My two kids are so different, I doubt that anything I might have learned from the first one is applicable to raising the second one. Well, most people seem to turn into functioning adults eventually, more or less.

Raising kids is exhausting sure enough. Get out your calendar, mark out the middle third of your life and put RAISING KIDS there.
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Re: dadness

Postby the finger genius on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:36 pm

Tom wrote:Have you tried any professional help like counseling or something like that? It's no fun, but a good one could help parse what's going on and maybe give you some more comprehensive ideas than Santo & Johnny.


We did go to a professional who specialized in PCIT (Parent Child Interaction Therapy). It helped us reduce frequency and maybe intensity of the tantrums for a while but it seems they're back. COuld be worth trying though if things are really bad.
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Re: dadness

Postby pepezabala on Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:06 am

Anthony Flack wrote:My two kids are so different, I doubt that anything I might have learned from the first one is applicable to raising the second one. Well, most people seem to turn into functioning adults eventually, more or less.

Raising kids is exhausting sure enough. Get out your calendar, mark out the middle third of your life and put RAISING KIDS there.


Same here. Two boys (3 and 8 ) and so many differences. I love how the 3 year old is already accompaigning my guitar playing with a steady beat on his self built percussion devices. The older boy never did that, he only stopped me playing by putting his hands on the strings at that age.

Raising kids is exhausting, and I hate how little energy is left at the end of a normal day when they are in bed. I hate falling asleep while some stupid netflix bullshit is playing in front of me. I would love to have more friends around me to raise the kids in a big clan, but somehow life has built this isolated two parents two kids family in a residential area thing around me.

Anyone here raising their kids in a , uhm, community?
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Re: dadness

Postby elisha wiesner on Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:39 am

pepezabala wrote:Raising kids is exhausting, and I hate how little energy is left at the end of a normal day when they are in bed. I hate falling asleep while some stupid netflix bullshit is playing in front of me. I would love to have more friends around me to raise the kids in a big clan, but somehow life has built this isolated two parents two kids family in a residential area thing around me.

Anyone here raising their kids in a , uhm, community?


Yeah, I guess we are. 2 of my best friends had their first kids about 5 weeks before our first. We do dinner with all three families every Sunday. There are a lot of kid friendly adult events here and we take advantage of them. Other parents seem do as well. If we go to an art opening, there will definitely be a handful of other parents we know with their kids. The playground and Library are the same way.We also live right down the road from my Mom and both my Dad, Stepmom and Mother-in-law live here as well so spend a fair amount of time with them. Our 3 year old goes to a sort of hippy co-op day care and we know a bunch of the other families that go there. Living is a small town can have it's drawbacks but as far as raising kind in a community, it's fantastic!
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Re: dadness

Postby Janeway on Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:52 am

my parents first dance at their wedding was to this beautiful duet i just loved and my ma told me that's actually his daughterness singing along with him, and i just thought it was so cool to see a child harmonize seamlessly into her dads work by adding so much to an already perfect song and changing it into an entirely new and even better tune and it became my new favorite daddy-daughter jam since it was 1993 and "sweet child of mine" was kinda played out by then
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Re: dadness

Postby enframed on Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:26 pm

Anthony Flack wrote:Get out your calendar, mark out the middle third of your life and put RAISING KIDS there.


"You know, it´s not like that all ends...when you´re 18 or 21 or 41 or 61 . lt never, never, ends."---Frank Buckman.
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Re: dadness

Postby the finger genius on Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:01 pm

The father of a friend of my son committed suicide last week. Our son is 4. Anybody have any useful advice on how to present this kind of stuff to a 4 year old? So far we've told him that his friend's dad died, he asked how and we said we didn't know, but not sure how long that will hold up. We are planning to take him to the wake tonight with the hope that it might be a nice thing for the little girl who lost her dad.

Anyway, hug your kids, take some deep breaths, and try to end each day in the plus column.
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Re: dadness

Postby bumble on Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:15 am

the finger genius wrote:The father of a friend of my son committed suicide last week. Our son is 4. Anybody have any useful advice on how to present this kind of stuff to a 4 year old? So far we've told him that his friend's dad died, he asked how and we said we didn't know, but not sure how long that will hold up. We are planning to take him to the wake tonight with the hope that it might be a nice thing for the little girl who lost her dad.

Anyway, hug your kids, take some deep breaths, and try to end each day in the plus column.


That is beyond tough, I'm so sorry.

Regarding death, I've been teaching my daughter that everything dies, and that it is just one big cycle, just like the seasons. You can't have Spring without Winter. It's natural, it's normal, it's okay.

But a parent dying...oof. That is scary as hell.

All my best to y'all.
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