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Band: Melvins

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Melvins

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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:39 am

Buzz’s political views still have a good distance to fall before they bump into Johnny Ramone’s.

But whatever. He can think what he likes. It would be a different story if he was a criminal, like Burzum or Roman Polanski, or if he used the band to promote white supremacy, like Burzum again.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby El Protoolio on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:01 pm

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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Parbuckle on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:27 pm

I'd like to hear Det som eggnog var.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Andrew. on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:39 pm

As the conversation here shows, it's not a dichotomy of either cancelling a band on one hand or completely ignoring the politics and actions of a bandleader on the other.

You can talk about a musician's politics and explicit worldview, talk about their sound, talk about their discography, talk about their hair, talk about their gear, talk about how they treat other people behind the scenes, talk about their lifelong love of Nazi memorabilia and outspoken admiration for Holocaust architect Reinhard Heydrich (in the case of Ron Asheton), talk about whatever.

And if Buzz Osborne likes to rescue dogs in his free time but he thinks human beings should rot to death in cages in America's historically unprecedented racist incarceration machinery, and he's the guy singing all the songs, people are free to mention it. No need to get uptight about it.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Angus Jung on Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:40 pm

Now Bernie Sanders, on the other hand. What is wrong with young people today supporting this creepy old socialist from the Northeast? I don't get it. Does he honestly want us to believe any of this stuff? His idea to close the gap between the rich and the poor by taking money away from the rich and then plowing it into an inefficient government bureaucracy staffed by brain dead money wasting lazy morons called government employees? He wants education to be free, so in other words he doesn't want people to have to pay a student loan, but he has no problem with people having heavy taxes. He wants me to pay for it — he thinks I, someone who's not going to college and never went to college, should support people who do.

This scans like some average, typical middle-aged male American stuff.

As someone said upthread, it's American small-business-owner shit. The guy who has a car dealership or a swimming pool business. A huge and important segment of Trump's base.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Ike on Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:00 pm

tmidgett wrote:who cares

if an artist's politics mattered to me that much, i'd be listening to bruce cockburn all the time

no thanks



Trying to decide if that still works. If I can just turn it off completely like that in 2019.

I advocate for this almost daily in my job through literature. Wallace Stevens was a piece of shit conservative; Hemingway, oy vey, not a good dude. Still cover their work all the time.

I don't know if I could go that far with bands or public artists today, and if I did I think it'd be my own privilege screaming loudly.

It's not like his lyrics are advocating anything because they're gibberish. But there are enough neophytes swinging off his nuts to give me pause.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby A_Man_Who_Tries on Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:06 pm

It's really not difficult. If you don't like someone's politics but you do like their art, just don't speak about it, and don't fund it. No support, no amplification.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Tommy on Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:17 pm

Ike wrote:
tmidgett wrote:who cares

if an artist's politics mattered to me that much, i'd be listening to bruce cockburn all the time

no thanks



Trying to decide if that still works. If I can just turn it off completely like that in 2019.

I advocate for this almost daily in my job through literature. Wallace Stevens was a piece of shit conservative; Hemingway, oy vey, not a good dude. Still cover their work all the time.

I don't know if I could go that far with bands or public artists today, and if I did I think it'd be my own privilege screaming loudly.

It's not like his lyrics are advocating anything because they're gibberish. But there are enough neophytes swinging off his nuts to give me pause.


I hear ya. Not going to defend him because I've got no skin in this game (Melvins), but I guess I just see Libertarians for what the ones I've known personally generally are - short-sighted selfishness that also happens to be anti-government. I was definitely that person when I was 20 and living in Missouri (I specifically remember having the viewpoint of "why should I pay for public schools? I'm not going to have kids and I mostly didn't go to one."). So on some level I guess I get that narrow-minded way of thinking. I don't agree with it. But it's just selfishness. I'd like to think I've come a long way from that. I'm all for socializing everything these days.

Anyway, we all have our lines in the sand. This just isn't where mine is, and it doesn't matter if I like the band or not.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby oZZma on Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:24 pm

Steve Austin is one of the greatest musicians that ever lived IMO, and he has a fixation for guns. And if I knew more about his political views, I'm sure I wouldn't like it.
Still love him and support him.
I don't approve, but I respect him as an artist and even as a person with different views.
When artists are concerned I have more problems with incoherence or hypocrisy than with people thinking differently, as long as it's nothing like racism or homophobia or stuff involving human rights in general.
Last edited by oZZma on Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby VaticanShotglass on Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:46 pm

RSMurphy wrote:
VaticanShotglass wrote:Doesn't that AmpRep guy have similar leanings?


Eesh. I've drawn many lines in the sand on my beach of music. Halo of Flies also wasn't that good.


Hahah. I only mention because I think those dudes cross pollinate.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby El Protoolio on Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:49 am

I’m sorry I spilled so much ink and took this all too seriously. We talk shit about musicians here and I shouldn’t be so touchy. It’s just that people who I have met and spent time with and enjoyed are people I’m going to reflexively defend. Even more so if I like their art, words, or music.

Take it or leave it but I’d defend a lot of you as reflexively too, because you’re included in that group of people I have crossed paths with and whose art and music and words and company I enjoy.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Luzwei on Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:40 am

andteater wrote:the best part of this is that all of you who paid $9000 for your 18 string aluminum guitar that made your wife leave you had to wait an extra two years for it because i'm sure this clowns order went to the front of the line.


This is where the conversation should've stopped. Can we add the new dude from Metallica and that dude that plays bass with Katy Perry or Pink(!?)?
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby AnthonyCinder on Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:36 pm

Eh, it's ok to come to the thread of a band to say that you find band guy's politics to be gross/objectionable. It's ok to come defend band guy, too, if that's what you want to do, I guess.

Buzz isn't (as far as I've seen) espousing racist or hateful shit. His evident politics place him more in "this guy seems like a dick" zone than "this guy seems like a monster" zone.

The grossest thing about Buzz is still this:

Wood Goblin wrote: As for Buzz, I’ve never liked how readily he trash-talks former band mates and friends in interviews.


It's not just Cornell/Soundgarden, either... dude has talked shit about more former band mates and friends than I can count. All signs point to him being a bitter dick.

On another note, this:

jbar wrote: I definitely do not like Steven McDonald's Dr Rockso bullshit, so it was a real treat seeing him play in TWO bands last night.


This dude is a bummer to watch live. Jokey and hokey.

The band's music has been goofy and Zappa-esque (solid comparison) for a while now. I still really enjoy a solid two decades worth of Melvins records, though, and that's a really impressive run. I like 95% of the content on every record from the beginning through the earlyl/mid-2000's. Even if I'm not into their newer records, I'm glad they're still out there and glad I get to see them play from time to time, especially when Steven McDonald's cheesy ass isn't joining them.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby VaticanShotglass on Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:23 pm

Blegh. I actually read some of those more recent interviews. That stuff is a drag. There's some pretty deep hook phrases I've read too often grading undergrad papers. I can't help but find so much of libertarian lines of reasoning to be either morally deficient (to be kind) or terribly naive.

There was some line about legalizing drugs but not supporting rehab funding. This is just drug abuse as death sentence. Not everyone with a habit has a group of support eager to sort them out. The lack of such a resource may even be correlated with addiction. I don't know. But the alternative is for marginalized people with deadly pain killers to conveniently die off out of sight in poor minority communities, the Appalachians, or wherever (or on Fox News if you live in WA or CA). So that's the hard hearted part and presumably not the libertarian's problem (though that is short sighted on the societal level). While personal commitment is a necessary condition for rehab it is not, save for rare examples, sufficient.

But he goes further to suggest that something would be solved by legalizing public access to all medications. This is either just clowning around or moronic. It suggest a pathological distrust of expertise and a grandiose faith in the cult of the individual. By bypassing prescriptions you just cut out the doctors, who I'm no great fan of but are the skilled labor that separate medicine from trial and error mushroom eating. And it does nothing to address the prohibitive costs of medications and all the nefarious crap that goes into setting those prices.

Sorry this should be in the libertarian page, if there is one. And maybe Buzz doesn't self identify as libertarian. What ever. He's in the ballpark. He's in the diamond. I'm surrounded by this ideology these days. I've had to grade so many papers filled with these half thought out measures. And yes, I graded fairly. That said, I really like that Bulls & The Bees EP and the double album that came out a few years ago. Lots of those tracks get stuck in my head lately.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby tmidgett on Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:48 pm

Ike wrote:Trying to decide if that still works. If I can just turn it off completely like that in 2019.


Surely this discussion has been had here many times, but could literally write down 100 names of people I wouldn't have wanted to have dinner with...or even meet...who made amazing art that I really love.

I advocate for this almost daily in my job through literature. Wallace Stevens was a piece of shit conservative; Hemingway, oy vey, not a good dude. Still cover their work all the time.


I don't know anything about his politics other than that he was conservative, but if you teach Stevens, I don't think you need advocate for anything other than the apex of an art form.

I do feel one has to clear a bit more of a hurdle creatively if not there as a person otherwise. Hemingway is actually a good example of someone who doesn't make it for me.

Fair to say that on the Thinker Scale, Buzz is not on the same end of it as Wallace Stevens or Ezra Pound or Nietzsche or whoever. Which may be a point in his defense. Is it a luxury to not give a shit about politics and/or be ignorant about the world outside of your own life? Yeah. Is it understandable? Yes. Many of us know how exhausting it is to think about it very much, much less actually act in some way.

I have said some dumb shit in my life, and some of my best friends spent literally years doing it a lot. We're all a bunch of idiots, basically. Knowing I'm an idiot, I try to be careful of who I write off. They have to really prove it, and even then, I might still buy their records if they're good enough.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby alright on Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:16 pm

AnthonyCinder wrote:
The grossest thing about Buzz is still this:

Wood Goblin wrote: As for Buzz, I’ve never liked how readily he trash-talks former band mates and friends in interviews.


It's not just Cornell/Soundgarden, either... dude has talked shit about more former band mates and friends than I can count. All signs point to him being a bitter dick.


Agree completely. Did you hear his monologue about Dave Grohl during his 2014 acoustic tour? It was cringeworthy. Buzz can come across as hypocritical as well, like when he took over a fan forum because the fans were posting negative reviews about the 'Bulls and the Bees' album. He (his rep) started booting members and erasing posts. It was bizarre and a bit sad.

On another note, this:

jbar wrote: I definitely do not like Steven McDonald's Dr Rockso bullshit, so it was a real treat seeing him play in TWO bands last night.


This dude is a bummer to watch live. Jokey and hokey.


He ruins more than a few songs with his bass twiddlings, flourishes, and goofball poses.

The band's music has been goofy and Zappa-esque (solid comparison) for a while now. I still really enjoy a solid two decades worth of Melvins records, though, and that's a really impressive run. I like 95% of the content on every record from the beginning through the earlyl/mid-2000's. Even if I'm not into their newer records, I'm glad they're still out there and glad I get to see them play from time to time, especially when Steven McDonald's cheesy ass isn't joining them.


The bands discography is outstanding, up until Nude With Boots, and tends to run downhill after that. I tend to get the feeling the band is more concerned with milking their fans with manufactured limited edition EPs, instead of crafting the type of songs that they used to for the first twenty or so years of their career.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby Jeremy B on Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:03 pm

I honestly can't think of another band who has had more wild comparisons and superlatives dumped on them, only to have their music be mostly devoid of any lasting substance. They really had some interesting things going one with Gluey Porch Treatments and parts of Bullhead. Also, maybe that first single off of Houdini? Otherwise, I'm kinda at a loss. I honestly wish I heard what others hear because all of the ink thats been dropped makes them come across as some fucked-up, metal band from Neptune, and nothing in their music comes even remotely close to that. As I go in make a wild comparison myself; they sound like Ween jamming with godheadsilo. You wonder, had the Nirvana connection not been so strong, they would have ended up being a longer running Hammerhead.

That all being said, they bring a ton of joy to their fans, obviously, and that allows them to make money off their deal, which is cool for a band of their ilk. Buzz seems to be the 50-year-old version of your cousin who goes to the Alternative High School and just discovered pot for the first time, but I don't think that makes him necessarily a bad dude. I did read that he was on that Fox News "youth" show, Red Eye, which is a bummer, but I haven't gone further down the rabbit-hole on his politics.

Anyway, meh.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby andteater on Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:45 pm

Jeremy B wrote:they sound like Ween jamming with godheadsilo.


HAHAH

wow.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby 154 on Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:01 am

andteater wrote:
Jeremy B wrote:they sound like Ween jamming with godheadsilo.


HAHAH

wow.


Yeah, that's fantastic.

I do like the first Fantomas album, which is probably all the Bootstrap Buzz I'll ever need.
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Re: Band: Melvins

Postby M.H on Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:48 pm

Jeremy B wrote:they sound like Ween jamming with godheadsilo. You wonder, had the Nirvana connection not been so strong, they would have ended up being a longer running Hammerhead.


Hahaha

You’re not listening if you think they’re operating in the same league as all the amrep stuff that followed in their wake.

They did the heavy punk thing well ahead of schedule, then proceeded to push the boundaries of rock music on their first run of indie releases. The number of sub-genres that were influenced by a Melvins record (or even just a single song) is nuts. They’re innovators on the scale of Black Flag, IMO.

Grunge, drone, doom, sludge, grind (Ozma’s song structures are a big influence on the more musically able bands like Brutal Truth and Pig Destroyer), noise rock… Buzz and Dale are the ground zero for so much music.

I totally get why their obnoxious attitude is a turn-off. I understand that you’re joining in with some pile-on here to feel like you belong to a group of like-minded people. But come the fuck on.
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