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band: nick cave and the bad seeds

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Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds

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Total votes : 163

Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby numberthirty on Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:15 pm

Andrew. wrote:
numberthirty wrote:
Andrew. wrote:Cave wrote that lauded "dark western" film about the violent outback in the 1880s (all about white settlers of course) and now condemns people as cowards for standing up to a viciously violent and lawless settler-colonial regime in 2018.


If you are talking about The Proposition, you might have missed a few minutes.


I have an absolute shit memory and I haven't seen or thought about the movie since it came out in, what, 2005 or whenever. If there's a reference in the movie to the violence of settler-colonialism against Indigenous peoples, and I wouldn't doubt there is, that merely makes Cave a hypocrite who is unable to act in life in a way that coheres with the pretensions of his epically conceived art. No big whoop there in terms of artists who fail to live up to the pretensions of their art with their own actions. But this isn't just "personal" inconsistency; it's Cave swaggering around on the world stage calling people who are engaged in an anti-colonial struggle cowards merely because he doesn't like how their struggle for justice makes him, the almighty Nick Cave the Artist, feel. Guess what shithead, your precious feelings aren't what matters. Get over yourself and do the right thing. It's not hard if you're not driven by ego.


First off, we are on the same page about the here and now. It's impossible to try to work out a situation where what Cave is talking about isn't hot garbage.

That said...

In the film, it seems like Captain Stanley sends another group of soldiers and a tracker out to investigate a possible murder. Unless I'm remembering all wrong, that group slaughters a group of Aborigines before being killed by Arthur and Two-Bob.

As for Two-Bob, it seems like he knew the definition of "Misanthrope" even though Sam did not. Never mind that the conversation that he has with Charley after Mikey dies points to that he is the one member of the gang outside of Charley who has anything like insight.

While it's not the central focus of the film, it is there.
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Re:

Postby Gramsci on Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:31 am

Gramsci wrote:Without a doubt one of the finest artists of our generation, and the best dancer I have ever seen.


It’s funny looking back on this 13!!! years later. This was the year Bargeld quit the Bad Seeds. I don’t rate any of the work since. It seems Blixa was the “conscience” of the band. It’s telling Mick Harvey left soon after. The band has turned into The Nick & Warren Show. Regarding is total insensitivity to the Palestinian cause... Cave is an Australian of a certain age, so I’m hardly surprised.

Pre 2003, still not crap
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Re: Re:

Postby bumble on Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:27 am

Gramsci wrote:The band has turned into The Nick & Warren Show.


This was the case when I saw them live.

Still. I would absolutely love to see them live, again.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby motorbike guy on Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:33 pm

June 13, 1984
Boston, MA
A club called Spit, on Landsowne St., across the street from Fenway Park. One of the many Don Law properties befouling the live music scene in Boston.

I was in my freshman year of college at Boston College, and I was the Promotions Director for the radio station WZBC. This meant I talked to the local club people and movie theater people every week and finagled tickets to give away on the air. And guest list spots for me. Since I was only 18 or 19 at the time, my getting into most shows hinged on the guest list spot.

I got myself in to the Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds show. And WZBC was kind of the euro-focused gothy modern rock sort of station, so we got tons of tickets for this show. I think we must have given away like 8 pairs. And they asked me to MC!

I bluff my way past the ID checking bouncers, get in the door, and I am shown to the dressing room to meet the band. They are all crammed into a long narrow room, mostly dark. I can see lots of cigarette cherries glowing, Blixa has a bottle of Jack Daniels. I say HI, I am going to introduce you. Grunts in response, I leave the room.

No opening band, as I recall. The stage has a curtain around it - so the band takes their places. Nick, Barry, Blixa, Mick and the other guy. I am pissing my pants because its the Birthday Party, Magazine and Einsterzende Neubauten and ME, in a 10x10 space. the crowd is loud outside the curtain. Nick is sitting on the drum stool. I guess Mick is just offstage. I walk up to the mic stand downstage center. Nick says, "Hey mate - bring me the mic when you are done" I say "OK".

Blammo - curtain opens. blazing lights in my face. I say "WZBC is proud to present NICK CAVE AND THE BAD SEEDS", then I pull the mic out of the clip, walk back to the drums and hand the mic to Nick, trying not to bump into the other guys or trip over anything. I then jumped off the stage in front. They fucking slayed. Took me days to calm down.

END OF STORY.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby m3kcomp on Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:51 pm

New record next week.

His "Conversations" tour is interesting. Saw him last night. He played "Shivers" among other things. He's one charismatic motherfucker.

Answering a question about Blixa leaving the band, he feigned ignorance as to the reason. It seems obvious it was Warren Ellis, no? Nick fell in love with someone else, end of story. It was also pretty clear, reading into his answers, that having a strong personality by his side has always been crucial (Rowland/Blixa/Warren) yet not one word on Mick Harvey.

Anyway, I had never seen him live and I'm happy it was under these circumstances. It's not really the Bad Seeds anymore, so seeing him solo removed any weirdness that probably comes along with going to one of their shows now.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby CSP_Skater on Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:51 pm

motorbike guy wrote:June 13, 1984
Boston, MA
A club called Spit, on Landsowne St., across the street from Fenway Park. One of the many Don Law properties befouling the live music scene in Boston.

I was in my freshman year of college at Boston College, and I was the Promotions Director for the radio station WZBC. This meant I talked to the local club people and movie theater people every week and finagled tickets to give away on the air. And guest list spots for me. Since I was only 18 or 19 at the time, my getting into most shows hinged on the guest list spot.

I got myself in to the Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds show. And WZBC was kind of the euro-focused gothy modern rock sort of station, so we got tons of tickets for this show. I think we must have given away like 8 pairs. And they asked me to MC!

I bluff my way past the ID checking bouncers, get in the door, and I am shown to the dressing room to meet the band. They are all crammed into a long narrow room, mostly dark. I can see lots of cigarette cherries glowing, Blixa has a bottle of Jack Daniels. I say HI, I am going to introduce you. Grunts in response, I leave the room.

No opening band, as I recall. The stage has a curtain around it - so the band takes their places. Nick, Barry, Blixa, Mick and the other guy. I am pissing my pants because its the Birthday Party, Magazine and Einsterzende Neubauten and ME, in a 10x10 space. the crowd is loud outside the curtain. Nick is sitting on the drum stool. I guess Mick is just offstage. I walk up to the mic stand downstage center. Nick says, "Hey mate - bring me the mic when you are done" I say "OK".

Blammo - curtain opens. blazing lights in my face. I say "WZBC is proud to present NICK CAVE AND THE BAD SEEDS", then I pull the mic out of the clip, walk back to the drums and hand the mic to Nick, trying not to bump into the other guys or trip over anything. I then jumped off the stage in front. They fucking slayed. Took me days to calm down.

END OF STORY.


awesome.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby oZZma on Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:09 am

I had many of their records but I gave them all away when I moved to another town. I don't think I care to listen to this kind of stuff ever again.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby iembalm on Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:09 am

Listening to the new one on YouTube. It's different, but seems like a natural progression from Skeleton Tree and Push the Sky Away. I like it. Wonder how these songs will be arranged for the band live?
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby NewDarkAge on Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:29 am

Man I don’t know about this new stuff. I admire it, in the unimaginable context of its creation. But it seems like every song is written to the formula of Epic Synth Washes that Nick Cave dramatically talk-sings over (since he doesn’t really write melodies anymore). He has always been kind of a hit or miss lyricist, a real dipshit at his worst, but the fact that you know he’s not bullshitting here doesn’t make the broad generalisations he opts for work any better as actual lyrics. Here are some lines on the new album:

And everyone is hidden, and everyone is cruel
And there's no shortage of tyrants, and no shortage of fools


This world is plain to see, it don't mean we can't believe in something

All through the night we drove and the wind caught her hair
And we parked on the beach in the cool evening air


Your soul is my anchor, never asked to be freed

For we are not alone, it seems, so many riders in the sky
The winds of longing in their sails, searching for the other side


I love my baby and my baby loves me
It's vast and wild and it's deep as the sea, the sea


Ordinarily, this type of writing would be called hackneyed. Does this really do it for anyone? “Cool evening air”? “Winds of longing”?
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby iembalm on Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:57 pm

There is one particular post in his Red Hand Files correspondence where he answers a fan who asked how his wife was doing. His response to that, I think, should be read before taking the lyrics to this new album on board.

It's here:

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/how-is-susie-doing/
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby Andrew. on Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:26 pm

iembalm wrote:There is one particular post in his Red Hand Files correspondence where he answers a fan who asked how his wife was doing. His response to that, I think, should be read before taking the lyrics to this new album on board.

It's here:

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/how-is-susie-doing/


Too bad that he thinks the lives and human rights of the Palestinian people (some of whom, strangely enough, are wives, or have wives, or are the children and sisters and friends and cousins of wives) are secondary to his all-important-feelings as a brilliant musician who writes laughable, hackneyed lyrics.

His wife means a lot to him. The lives of millions of other wives whose political struggle threatens his artistic ego are nothing to him.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby iembalm on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:19 pm

Here's what Andrew. is referring to (I assume - maybe he has spoken to the man and has some insight that I don't):

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/ ... -brian-eno

One could, of course take Andrew.'s post and replace certain words with other words in order to condemn Cave for not being on the correct side of pretty much any issue one would care to. Veganism, gun control, the vaccination debate, what have you.

My own opinion is that declaring that the artistic exploration of grief of someone whose political, moral, or philosophical viewpoints differ from your own is negated or less "pure" artistically because of those opinions is puerile and self-aggrandizing, Maybe I'm a bit biased in that regard because of having served grieving people for 22 years and recognizing that grief is a universal emotion that isn't any easier to deal with because you think compassionately about those less fortunate, recycle, vote for the kinder and gentler candidate, donate to worthy causes, play catch with your son, and do the dishes every night. Nor is it more navigable if you are a rat bastard with no regard for anyone but yourself.

And of course the appropriate response to any criticism of artistic expression that begins with, "How dare you...?" is "Go fuck yourself." Not that I presume to speak for Cave, of course. He's much more eloquent than me and what he creates is infinitely more deserving of attention.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby Angus Jung on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:58 pm

.
Last edited by Angus Jung on Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby NewDarkAge on Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:59 pm

iembalm wrote:There is one particular post in his Red Hand Files correspondence where he answers a fan who asked how his wife was doing. His response to that, I think, should be read before taking the lyrics to this new album on board.

It's here:

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/how-is-susie-doing/


I’ve read and enjoyed a bunch of the Red Hand Files correspondence. It’s tender and compassionate writing. That’s part of why I felt disappointed by some of the lyrics on the new record. The music is moving when you know the context, because any person singing about going through something like that is moving, unless you’re a robot. But where it shoots for universality it seems to me to end up in generality, reaching for well-worn images of seas and winds and horses and the like, but not really doing anything to take those images somewhere new.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby Into the Void on Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:31 pm

One of my favorite artists, but a few things I disliked about Ghosteen: the album title, the album cover, the songs, the synth sounds (all of which sound like they were made with a MicroKorg by someone who didn't want to venture beyond presets), the (mostly piss poor) melodies, the vocals/vocal affectations, and the incredibly pretentious lyrics. I'm aware of the circumstances, but that doesn't make anyone defend Tears in Heaven.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby WeStartToDrift on Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:33 pm

Into the Void wrote:the synth sounds (all of which sound like they were made with a MicroKorg by someone who didn't want to venture beyond presets),


It seems like Warren's dive into synths stopped abruptly at the Microkorg.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby cneutron on Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:48 am

Andrew. wrote:
iembalm wrote:There is one particular post in his Red Hand Files correspondence where he answers a fan who asked how his wife was doing. His response to that, I think, should be read before taking the lyrics to this new album on board.

It's here:

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/how-is-susie-doing/


Too bad that he thinks the lives and human rights of the Palestinian people (some of whom, strangely enough, are wives, or have wives, or are the children and sisters and friends and cousins of wives) are secondary to his all-important-feelings as a brilliant musician who writes laughable, hackneyed lyrics.

His wife means a lot to him. The lives of millions of other wives whose political struggle threatens his artistic ego are nothing to him.


Too much, man.
Just like my initial reply.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby Antero on Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:29 am

NewDarkAge wrote:Ordinarily, this type of writing would be called hackneyed. Does this really do it for anyone? “Cool evening air”? “Winds of longing”?

More to the point: riders, definitionally, don't have sails
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby Ike on Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:12 am

This new one isn't doing it for me at all.

The last two are the best albums of his entire run in my opinion, so I was PRIMED for this one.

Just seems flat.

Maybe it'll land after a few more listens.

I hope they bring Grinderman back TO ROCK.
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Re: band: nick cave and the bad seeds

Postby kaleb on Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:35 am

Saw the Q&A show last night in Austin, Cave played Into My Arms, which I mostly think of in connection with some friends who used it as their wedding processional song. Last night he played it as the end of a response to a question about grief from a guy whose wife had died a few years ago, and I thought it was incredibly powerful to hear that song from the perspective of someone grieving, basically the opposite of the wedding context. I cried.

On the crappier side, in his response to a question about political divisiveness in the world today, Cave explicitly went to horseshoe theory. Ignoring that and a few cringe-y questions, it was a very good evening.
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