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Communism

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Communism - the only hope for humanity or a big bag of bollocks?

Yes
42
36%
No
48
41%
I'm not sure
15
13%
If i'm honest i don't really know what it is
12
10%
 
Total votes : 117

Re: Communism

Postby NewDarkAge on Fri May 16, 2014 5:07 pm

Side note: this thread is kind of painful to read.
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Re: Communism

Postby enframed on Fri May 16, 2014 7:18 pm

connor wrote:They're not passive. They push this social vision on us every day.


http://www.statisticbrain.com/televisio ... tatistics/
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Re: Communism

Postby numberthirty on Fri May 16, 2014 7:26 pm

I don't know about capitalists actually being for free markets. In a totally free market, I could trade something that's not money for the goods a capitalist needs to get cash for to keep the machine in motion.

They are for something. I just don't think a genuine free market is it.
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Re: Communism

Postby numberthirty on Sat May 23, 2015 12:20 pm



From the article -

My friends in Kiev—all of them professional historians—seem to understand my concern. But they keep saying that Ukraine is under siege, and that a critical discussion of the country’s past has to wait until after the war.


As for this line....

Ukraine needs to embrace a history that excludes no one and recognizes the country’s complex past


Along with including this....

In an open letter to President Poroshenko this April, a group of scholars and Ukraine experts lamented that the law would make it “a crime to question the legitimacy of an organization (UPA) that slaughtered tens of thousands of Poles in one of the most heinous acts of ethnic cleansing in the history of Ukraine.”


While you leave out this -

It was estimated that about 25,000 Ukrainians were dying every day during the Famine. Desperation and extreme hunger even lead to cases of cannibalism and consequentially thousands were arrested for this act.


http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/genocide/ukraine_famine.htm

Is an interesting way to get to "exclude no one".

While I see what the article is trying to say, talking in terms of "numbers" and "most" seems like it's only going to wind up in the two sides digging their respective trenches a couple of feet deeper.
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Re: Communism

Postby numberthirty on Sat May 23, 2015 12:45 pm

Dude, I didn't say "you".*

Both sides there seem like they have the ugly parts of their past that they need to not lose sight of. As long as they are both in that mindset(not to discount/minimize those parts), I can't see the country being a the sort of "whole" that it could be.


*As in "You" being someone who posts on EA F.
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Re: Communism

Postby numberthirty on Sat May 23, 2015 12:51 pm

connor wrote:Ah, more "communism...fascism...two sides of the same coin!" pap. Here's a pretty easy way to debunk that:

Tell me about all those fascist parties outside of Germany that did things totally at odds with Nazism-in-practice-at-home.

Cause I can tell you a whole lot about communist parties outside of the USSR/eastern bloc that did totally awesome things at odds with Stalinism-in-practice-at-home.


Dude...

They didn't do anything so awesome that it will bring back the dead.

I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm saying that what you're saying doesn't bring those people together and mend fences(if that can ever actually be accomplished).
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Re: Communism

Postby numberthirty on Sat May 23, 2015 12:56 pm

Totally off topic sidebar(the lighter being the clear exception) -

http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22524
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Re: Communism

Postby numberthirty on Sun May 24, 2015 1:23 am

connor wrote:As to the Holodomor, try this.

Village Voice wrote:In this context, collectivization was more than a vehicle for a cheap and steady grain supply to the state. It was truly a "revolution from above," a drastic move towards socialism, and an epochal change in the mode of production. There were heavy casualties on both sides -- hundreds of thousands of kulaks (rich peasants) deported to the north, thousands of party activists assassinated. Production superseded politics, and many peasants were coerced rather than won to collective farms. Vast disruption of the 1932 harvest ensued (and not only in the Ukraine), and many areas were hard-pressed to meet the state's grain requisition quotas.

Again, Stalin and the Politburo played major roles. "But there is plenty of blame to go around," as Sovietologist John Arch Getty recently noted in The London Review of Books. "It must be shared by the tens of thousands of activists and officials who carried out the policy and by the peasants who chose to slaughter animals, burn fields, and boycott cultivation in protest."



I'll keep in mind that some poor people who protest deserve blame and not my sympathy. That will probably come in handy.
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Re: Communism

Postby Clyde on Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:00 pm

http://bturn.com/10286/soviet-erotic-alphabet

Gives new meaning to the phrase "dirty commies."
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Re: Communism

Postby ooop on Sun Apr 24, 2016 1:44 am

This 35 minute video is very much "101" but it is good, despite some choppy editing at times. Share with your friends, send to your parents (I did!), organize a general strike, let the blood of the bourgeoisie run in the streets, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P97r9Ci5Kg
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Re: Communism

Postby bishopdante on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:37 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Red_Scare

General Intelligence Division (GID) headed by J. Edgar Hoover had become a storehouse of information about radicals in America. It had infiltrated many organizations and, following the raids of November 1919 and January 1920, it had interrogated thousands of those arrested and read through boxes of publications and records seized. Though agents in the GID knew there was a gap between what the radicals promised in their rhetoric and what they were capable of accomplishing, they nevertheless told Palmer they had evidence of plans for an attempted overthrow of the U.S. government on May Day 1920.

With Palmer's backing, Hoover warned the nation to expect the worst: assassinations, bombings, and general strikes. Palmer issued his own warning on April 29, 1920, claiming to have a "list of marked men" and said domestic radicals were "in direct connection and unison" with European counterparts with disruptions planned for the same day there. Newspapers headlined his words: "Terror Reign by Radicals, says Palmer" and "Nation-wide Uprising on Saturday." Localities prepared their police forces and some states mobilized their militias. New York City's 11,000-man police force worked for 32 hours straight. Boston police mounted machine guns on automobiles and positioned them around the city.

The date came and went without incident. Newspaper reaction was almost uniform in its mockery of Palmer and his "hallucinations."
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Re: Communism

Postby prowler on Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:03 am

so i've been reading some marxists.org, hobsbawm's autobiography, rosa luxemburg texts etc and every now and then some basic questions pop up. I'll just drop them here and maybe some more senior red FMs can enlighten me...

is revolutionary socialism dead today? If so, what's the reason?
A. scientific Marxism has been proven wrong, and capitalism is not determined to (a) end, or (b) end in socialism, or
B. there's nobody left to lead such a revolution, as most believers today are treating it more as theory than practice, under the wing of academia/journalism/mom's basement/etc
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Re: Communism

Postby erskine on Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:20 am

prowler wrote:I'll just drop them here and maybe some more senior red FMs can enlighten me...

man!! you're in Bucharest and most people on the forum live in the "west", and have never lived in a communist regime.
i don't know how old you are, but if you don't recall the pre 90's era, you may ask questions to older people in your surrounding.
doesn't experience matters, even a little?
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Re: Communism

Postby Luzwei on Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:02 am

Just a note, not every eastern european "communism" movement was the same. And not every communist movement inside the EE was and is communism. Did they hide behind that, because it was convenient and easily sold to the masses, yeah. But they resembled more of a full dictatorship or soft dictatorships more than anything close to resembling communism in full effect.
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Re: Communism

Postby kokorodoko on Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:59 am

Also, while experience from inside an old communist regime matters, and it's good to talk to people to gain firsthand accounts, I feel sometimes their significance is played up. If someone tells you it was horrible, the mere fact of them having lived there doesn't give their story automatic validity, since you could just as easily find a bunch of others who will tell you their lives were much better in those days (even in Romania, which I would rank as the worst of "really existing socialism").

Like anything it has to be compared and contrasted with actual research and so on.
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Re: Communism

Postby Luzwei on Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:09 am

kokorodoko wrote:since you could just as easily find a bunch of others who will tell you their lives were much better in those days (even in Romania, which I would rank as the worst of "really existing socialism").


a bunch? you probably can't. they're probably executed there and then. if they're not, they jumped ship when shit got real.
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Re: Communism

Postby kokorodoko on Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:26 pm

The people who liked the old times were executed? Surely it would be the other way around?
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Re: Communism

Postby Luzwei on Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:41 pm

If you're talking about Romania, as you were:

The Ceaușescus were the last people to be executed in Romania before the abolition of capital punishment on 7 January 1990.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_C ... escu#Death

But yeah, there were some horrible things done all the way round.

Even in Yugoslavia, which I think was a really really soft dictatorship, the secret service was hunting down nazis around the world trying to cleanse the movement to extinction. And pretty much anyone that was not in line with the propaganda. With every movement/ship, it fights to stay in power as long as possible.
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Re: Communism

Postby kokorodoko on Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:32 pm

Ah, I'm stupid. I wasn't talking of nomenklatura people though, just ordinary folks, and not at the time of the fall of the regime, but years later as a type of nostalgia.

Romania is a special case, and the execution of Ceausescu could be taken as a sign of particular hatred towards the leader among the populace, but even in the Czech Republic the communist party has polled 12-15% over the last decade.
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Re: Communism

Postby jimmywahcrowbar on Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:14 pm

My neighbour grew up in communist Dresden. I asked him what it was like and he said "terrible".
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