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Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Clyde on Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:52 pm



I cannot emphasize enough how much this makes want to tear off my own head.
Last edited by Clyde on Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Clyde on Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:00 pm

Me after watching Petersen spend most of his opening remarks shilling for his line of nootropics and Zizek immediately going off on a rambling tangent about the dialectic of The Croods

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby bishopdante on Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:03 am

All beef diet.

All beef.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:23 am

Clyde wrote:

I cannot emphasize enough how much this makes want to tear off my own head.


They deserve each other.

Zizek wrote some great and important stuff especially earlier in his career, but it's been years since he's had any insight on anything that matters, especially re: current politics and culture.

They mostly agree about PC culture and the inferiority of women, etc. I don't know a single Marxist who thinks Z is a good spokesperson for the Marxist tradition. A has-been debating Kermit the Charlatan. Incels of the internet rejoice.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby jimmy two hands on Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:54 am

Andrew. wrote:
Clyde wrote:

I cannot emphasize enough how much this makes want to tear off my own head.


They deserve each other.

Zizek wrote some great and important stuff especially earlier in his career, but it's been years since he's had any insight on anything that matters, especially re: current politics and culture.

They mostly agree about PC culture and the inferiority of women, etc. I don't know a single Marxist who thinks Z is a good spokesperson for the Marxist tradition. A has-been debating Kermit the Charlatan. Incels of the internet rejoice.


Image
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:23 pm

jimmy two hands wrote:Image


Beautiful. Might be the best thing to come from this event.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Meme Mearest on Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby eliya on Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:48 pm

jimmy two hands wrote:
Andrew. wrote:
Clyde wrote:

I cannot emphasize enough how much this makes want to tear off my own head.


They deserve each other.

Zizek wrote some great and important stuff especially earlier in his career, but it's been years since he's had any insight on anything that matters, especially re: current politics and culture.

They mostly agree about PC culture and the inferiority of women, etc. I don't know a single Marxist who thinks Z is a good spokesperson for the Marxist tradition. A has-been debating Kermit the Charlatan. Incels of the internet rejoice.


Image


I almost threw up laughing. Holy shit I never made the connection between Peterson and Kermit voice. Wow.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby kokorodoko on Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:15 pm

This actually makes me kind of excited, simpy because it's so bizarre. I just can't imagine how it will play out.

But the topic? Laughable. I hope it's just a kind of clickbait title and they won't actually talk about that.

They mostly agree about PC culture and the inferiority of women, etc.

In what sense? (re: Zizek)

Also while I do think Zizek tends to be erratic and superficial in his diagnoses of current events, him and Peterson certainly don't "agree" about PC culture in any meaningful sense. Peterson thinks it is a covert tactic to reintroduce communist totalitarianism, more or less. Zizek's critiques - agree with them or not - aren't anywhere close to that.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:31 pm

kokorodoko wrote:
They mostly agree about PC culture and the inferiority of women, etc.

In what sense? (re: Zizek)

Also while I do think Zizek tends to be erratic and superficial in his diagnoses of current events, him and Peterson certainly don't "agree" about PC culture in any meaningful sense. Peterson thinks it is a covert tactic to reintroduce communist totalitarianism, more or less. Zizek's critiques - agree with them or not - aren't anywhere close to that.


I was being flippant and obviously part of Zizek's schtick is to be the eastern European Other who makes provocative un-PC (often seemingly reactionary) statements designed to activate liberal audiences.

Most recently he's said some dumb stuff about #MeToo, declaring that #MeToo is a narcissistic, individualistic, careerist movement (as if he's in a good position to adjudicate this). He's also said he has some sympathy for Peterson's outrage over pronouns. His attempted intervention re: the DSM incorporating a critique of toxic masculinity also seemed really dumb to me.

I've read a ton of Zizek, books and books, countless articles and interviews, and listened to a million talks and panels, I've seen him speak in person as a grad student, etc. Sex and gender have never been his strong suit.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Gramsci on Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:16 am

I recently read Like a Thief in Broad Daylight: Power in the Era of Post-Humanity and was pleasantly surprised how good it was, especially in the face of his public persona.

Regarding the debate; I think I can see the motivations of both... Peterson is utterly clueless and has spent the past 5 years hip-deep in adulation from incels and has no self-awareness of his own deep ignorance of Marxism. Zizek clearly thinks he's going to wipe the floor with the guy...
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby TomTheBum on Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:49 am

i think zizek's criticism of pc culture and #metoo and all that is obvious, that ignores the class dimension. plus i don't think it has anything to do with him being from eastern europe. walter benn michaels, who is american through and through at least the last time i checked, is actually much more belligerent in that regard. they're marxists you know.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Antero on Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:02 am

It's been a while since Zizek has had anything novel to say, though, when I was an undergrad, I remember him coming to the U of C to give a talk (an iteration of the neighbors lecture) and I crammed myself into a little window from the outside of the building so that I could hear.

Zizek, while a weird motherfucker who is reliably wrong about a significant amount of shit, is also at least actually well-read and I think ultimately more interested with having a conversation happen around him rather than fundamental accuracy; meanwhile, Peterson is a fucking idiot who hasn't engaged a text more complicated than Snow White and is deeply invested in being perceived as impressive and important
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:50 pm

Antero wrote:It's been a while since Zizek has had anything novel to say, though, when I was an undergrad, I remember him coming to the U of C to give a talk (an iteration of the neighbors lecture) and I crammed myself into a little window from the outside of the building so that I could hear.


I was at that same talk as a PhD student and I remember the people in the windows.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:04 am

TomTheBum wrote:i think zizek's criticism of pc culture and #metoo and all that is obvious, that ignores the class dimension. plus i don't think it has anything to do with him being from eastern europe. walter benn michaels, who is american through and through at least the last time i checked, is actually much more belligerent in that regard. they're marxists you know.


I didn't say Zizek's takes are because he's eastern European, I said that being an eastern European Other who says anti-PC stuff to liberal audiences has always been part of his (very popular) schtick. WBM and Adolph Reed are the fave thinkers of the stridently anti-IDpol crowd in the U.S. for sure. I followed Reed's analysis for years and got lots out of it, but he's become fixated on identity politics to the point where he's the kind of crank who compares trans people to Rachel Dolezal, which is stupid and shitty. This was a good response to Reed re: racial justice from a couple years ago.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Clyde on Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:59 pm

Adolph Reed is NC but my god does he give a lot of cover to the worst aspects of class-reductionism. (Obviously there is a ton of crap in identity politics too, particularly in its most popular forms but that's for another thread.) Bringing up Reed got me thinking that if the Zizek-Peterson thing is a hit, there should be a series of debates between genuine intellectuals gone crank vs dipshit IDW/Quillete pseuds. Reed could debate Ben Shapiro, Brian Leiter could debate Claire Lehmann (that one might get a little too cozy), Jacques Ranciere could go on Joe Rogan's podcast...
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Christopher on Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:17 am

Andrew. wrote:This was a good response to Reed re: racial justice from a couple years ago.


Reed's long and detailed response to the article's two authors is worth checking out:

Birch and Heideman resort to baseless observations such as their claim that I have “always prided [myself] on being ahead of the curve.” This personal characterization is a bizarre alternative to critical argument about what I actually contend. And, of course, this is yet another area in which Birch and Heideman have no idea what they’re talking about. They don’t know me or for that matter anything about me that’s not a matter of public record, in what I’ve written for public consumption. Like much in their essay, this is an instance of uninformed proclamation of what they would like to be true to fit the a priori commitments of their dogma, which, by the way, is rather surprisingly like liberal individualism in the extent to which it hinges on speculation regarding individuals’ motives rather than examination of patterned social relations and processes.

...this may seem snarky, but the phenomenon of the righteous white antiracist presuming that black people who dissent from simplistic antiracist bromides, especially black adults who have lived through and worked on the experience the white antiracist expatiates about, need instruction on the depth and intensity of white racism/white supremacy has gotten beyond tiresome. I emphatically do not intend to suggest that personal experience or racial classification settles or preempts debate, although an apparently unrecognized, and therefore acutely annoying, irony of this presumptuous antiracist gambit is that their ideology does embrace such views. (The essential contradiction in this move, therefore, is that by the terms of the discourse of racial authenticity they accept – which to be clear again neither I nor others among those black dissenters do – they should keep their mouths shut.)


Ouch. He pretty much eats their lunch.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:53 pm

Christopher wrote:
Reed's long and detailed response to the article's two authors is worth checking out:


Haha. It takes some balls for two white dudes to write a response like this, eh.

I've been quoting and linking to Reed on this forum for ages. But there's no question to me he's become a bit of a crank.

And as a full-time union organizer and rep in a rural region, I actually don't find Reed's analysis very helpful at all. I do think liberals need to hear what Reed says, which is why I often cited him in my relentless harangues about liberalism on this forum over the years. But as a union rep working primarily w members who don't have university degrees, I find the line he advances is actually counter-productive to working-class organizing in significant ways (for reasons I addressed here).
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby the_joe_lemur on Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:42 am

Andrew. wrote:But there's no question to me he's become a bit of a crank.


Wow, that is one steaming pile of a take. You could have told me that ran in National Review and I would believe you.

"Transgender wasn't always a thing"

Two-spirit folks and Hijra (to name just two gender-variant identities that go back thousands of years) might have a word to say about that.

Holy christ and it just goes on for thousands of words.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Meme Mearest on Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:42 pm

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