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Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Antero on Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:28 am

Zizek has weird reactionary ideology and broadly is content to play the clown but he's also an actual academic who has read a ton of shit rater than a dweeb who apparently hadn't read the Communist Manifesto until he was preparing for the debate?? Peterson is a scrub, he hasn't ever analyzed a text more complicated than Disney's "The Lion King," he's fucking Captain Dunning-Kreuger out here, sad shit. Zizek dropping the same German toilet line that he's been rocking for two decades. Christ.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby addley on Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:11 am

Oh please, Zizek is not a reactionary!

But I guess there's the probability that this lowers JP's influence a bit, so that's a plus.


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I have to admit I did want it to end during his opening statement, it was hard to focus on, it was like my ears were rolling their eyes. I agree Zizek's started out as a pretty boring greatest hits as well. I have to say tho, Jordan was pretty earnest and open during the end, it makes me feel bad ragging on him across the entire internet atm
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:40 pm

According to Nathan Robinson from Current Affairs, Zizek was almost entirely off-point and largely incomprehensible, making no attempt to engage in direct debate: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/04/ ... son-debate

And Peterson was the ignorant moron he always is.

Zizek begins by whining about his own diminished standing in academia and on the left and apparently says little or nothing in defense of Marxism. Great way to handle a debate w one of the most popular right-wing thinkers and maybe the most popular anti-Marxist in the world.

Sounds like a waste of time and further confirmation of Zizek's current irrelevance.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby addley on Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:48 pm

You are consistently such a bummer! Nathan's article was boring, and his zings are trite
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:06 pm

I just saw a couple short clips of Zizek directly challenging Peterson on his ignorance of Marxism, which is good.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:15 pm

I guess I'll have to listen to the thing, but far from a surprise, this was entirely predictable, like I said earlier in the thread.

The great surprise of this debate turned out to be how much in common the old-school Marxist and the Canadian identity politics refusenik had.


And they both agreed, could not have agreed more, that it was all the fault of the “academic left”. They seemed to believe that the “academic left”, whoever that might be, was some all-powerful cultural force rather than the impotent shrinking collection of irrelevances it is. If the academic left is all-powerful, they get to indulge in their victimization.

And that was the great irony of the debate: what it comes down to is that they believe they are the victims of a culture of victimization.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... sm-marxism?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:19 pm

Andrew. wrote:I guess I'll have to listen to the thing, but far from a surprise, this was entirely predictable, like I said earlier in the thread.

The great surprise of this debate turned out to be how much in common the old-school Marxist and the Canadian identity politics refusenik had.




Just listened to Zizek's 30-min opening statement. He makes some good points and it's clear his main ideological adversary is centrist liberalism, not Paterson's conservativism. And Z is right to underline that many liberals who deplore Trump refuse to assess the way rightwing authoritarianism emerges from the failures of the liberal capitalist order to deliver on its own promises.

At the same time, Z seems out of touch w the present moment, fighting a slightly rearguard battle, counterposing PC liberalism to a structural account of equality and egalitarianism. Fair enough in some respects, but it's like the dude is trapped in the 90s or 00s. Things have changed, especially in the U.S. context.

Meanwhile, Z says most of his critics are liberal academics, but the fact the Guardian columnist above calls Z an "old-school Marxist" highlights an issue many Marxists have with him: he's not really a Marxist but the whole world thinks he is.

Someone on Twitter:

it is extremely funny that jordan peterson studied the communist manifesto because he naively believed that zizek, a soft third-positionist lacanian, would genuinely want to "debate marxism"

https://twitter.com/marrowing/status/11 ... 1652883457
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:42 pm

Good piece on Peterson's ignorance of Marxism, what Zizek and Peterson share and where they differ, and the weaknesses of Z's politics.

Throughout the evening, both speakers stated on multiple occasions how much they agreed with and admired one another. Peterson was particularly taken by Žižek’s charismatic performance and “complex arguments,” while Žižek stressed how much he agreed with Peterson’s critique of political correctness and his aggressive style of argumentation.

Žižek surely isn’t as odious as Peterson. But the debate revealed just how far the leftist intellectual has fallen


https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/04/jord ... te-toronto
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby addley on Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:28 pm

Do you know what the edit button is you goofball
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:05 pm

addley wrote:Do you know what the edit button is you goofball


Have we ever interacted before this? You seem brittle. A lot of leftists, especially Marxists, share my criticisms of Zizek these days.
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby addley on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:11 pm

Maybe I am! And a lot don't, what kind of argument is that! Hi-YAH

Engage me like a... thing in your profile. A hip x-ray?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:01 pm

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby addley on Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:15 pm

Oooh! Is that from a movie?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:03 pm

addley wrote:Oooh! Is that from a movie?


I like the still image more than the film itself but yeah: At Land by Maya Deren (1944). I think I first saw it in a grad seminar on film theory w the great Chicago-based U.S. film historian Tom Gunning. Awesome guy who once led an entire seminar with one of his shirt tails sticking out of the open fly of his pants, eccentric professor style.

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Gramsci on Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:04 am

Is the debate worth watching? Zizek’s books are great but he’s passed his best as a public intellectual...

Peterson is clearly a moron
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Clyde on Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:53 am

I read a couple of different accounts of the--ahem--debate. Sounded like it was a complete shitshow which, not surprising. Boy, they really let fans of political correctness have it! I guess Zizek won so...yay? Is that such an accomplishment though? It's like watching a retired Tracy McGrady dunk all over a paraplegic. (Plus, a bunch of JP fans suddenly becoming a bunch of Zizek fans has a making-a-wish-on-cursed-monkey's-paw vibe to it.)
At least one amusing thing came of it and that was Jordan Peterson once again announcing to the world what a fucking fraud he is. This dude has spent the last couple of years presenting himself as some kind of expert on Marxism and he's never read Marx until he had to debate? Then he had several months to do his homework and he picks the shortest thing he can find and still manages it to completely biff it. If that had been a paper for Intro to Political Philosophy class he'd have failed.

The write-up in The Guardian was bad for it's own reason. Stephen Marche is such a herb. Here are some of the dumber things he wrote:

They both wanted the same thing: capitalism with regulation, which is what every sane person wants.

Peterson is neither a racist nor a misogynist. He is a conservative.

Žižek asked what Peterson meant by cultural Marxists when postmodern thinkers, like Foucault, weren’t Marxist at all. Peterson was an expert on this subject, at least. He gave a minor history of the French critical theorists who transposed categories of class oppression for group oppression in the 1960s.
BTW, what are the odds that Peterson has read 10 combined pages of original material by Foucault? 1000-1?
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Andrew. on Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:40 am

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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby addley on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:55 pm

https://youtu.be/ZJteFFbnoo8

I thought that looked like Maya Deren! I've only seen Meshes though and it didn't look like it was from that..
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby Antero on Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:16 am

Clyde wrote:(Plus, a bunch of JP fans suddenly becoming a bunch of Zizek fans has a making-a-wish-on-cursed-monkey's-paw vibe to it.)

Oh god, they're going to stay racist and stop cleaning their rooms. that's literally the only thing peterson got right
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Re: Alt-right darling: Jordan Peterson

Postby addley on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am

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