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2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

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Elizabeth Warren

Not crap
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65%
Crap
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Total votes : 48

Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:32 pm

andteater wrote:
watching this forum go from an awesome place to talk about music and joke around with people and turn into QAnon for 40 year old dudes who spend $10,000 a year on guitar pedals is so awesome.


You could talk about music and joke around on this forum if you wanted to dude.

But you seem to spend all your time on the political threads complaining about the political threads, which seems pathetic and self-defeating. Be the change you want to see.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby numberthirty on Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:17 pm

The real downer is that the guy missed what was obviously a deadpan joke in his hurry to be bummed about the current lack of jokes.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby numberthirty on Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:21 pm

Boombats wrote:
andteater wrote:
llllllllllllllllllllllll wrote:Matt Taibbi and Mark Ames aren’t running for president dude. The issue, at least to me, is electability, not some sort of moral high ground. Warren will get eaten alive by the Republicans for that shit.


on the other hand, the Republicans will treat the Socialist Jew with the utmost respect.

you guys are so fucking dumb it hurts to read.

"The Jew" knows how to roll with the punches. Warren does not.


Forget "Roll With The Punches". He eats punches like they are Halloween candy.

I have my doubts about if Warren can do the same. Not impossible, but feels unlikely.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby nihil on Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:55 pm

andteater wrote:being progressive doesn't necessarily mean you're a socialist. if she was running as a Democratic Socialist and jumped up and clapped for Trump's statement that would be different.

You keep using the term socialism. I'm not. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, New Deal Democrat, etc. whatever, but he is certainly not radical or a socialist. But Warren is being extremely dishonest and opportunistic by latching on to his positions and pretending that she is as progressive as he is. Medicare4All is a perfect example of her pretending to be for an issue(because it's popular) that she clearly has no intentions of following through with.

andteater wrote:i can't disagree with the general idea of what you're stating there regarding what people desire. but i'm still not sure if that necessarily means "socialism" - it may mean "Democratic Socialism" but if that's the case really what you're saying is that the public has not been smart enough to understand what Bernie is selling OR he hasn't been effective enough into selling it to the public. in that case, not sure what to tell you. he has an uphill battle in this country. maybe he should have come up with a new term that didn't have the word "Socialism" in it.

Again, you keep harping on the term socialism, which illustrates that the mainstream media and the corporate agenda with their embarrassingly transparent propaganda is working.

Smart has nothing to do with it. People simply want better lives and are sick of being fucked in the ass. Bernie has been extremely effective. He has organized a huge movement where there is fierce resistance from a mainstream media that obviously want to smear him and make him go away. But it hasn't worked. And he's done this with no megadonors. He's not magic. He has simply been consistent and blunt. Same with Trump....consistent and blunt. Same with Greta Thunberg...consistent and blunt. Warren is not. She does the same lame backpedaling and vague song and dance to try to appeal to both sides: The Rich and The Poor. People are sick of that shit and can see through it at this point. That's why Trump won.

andteater wrote:secondly, you're right, people want what Warren is selling, but you're certain that it wont' happen. what makes you certain that if Bernie won it *would* happen? all of the sudden he'd get the votes in the Senate? dude won't even argue in favor of ending the filibuster.


Maybe you only skimmed through the article, but it was explained very well. Bernie is organizing. He is not just wanting to be president and promising to make things better. He acknowledges that it will take grassroots pressure to pass these bills. That's what makes him so unique. He understands. That's why his supporters are so passionate.

Do you really believe that all the things we enjoy today like women voting, 40 work week, unions, etc. were put in place by some magical president that could convince the senate and the house? They were all implemented by mass popular pressure.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby numberthirty on Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:13 pm

nihil wrote:Maybe you only skimmed through the article, but it was explained very well. Bernie is organizing. He is not just wanting to be president and promising to make things better. He acknowledges that it will take grassroots pressure to pass these bills. That's what makes him so unique. He understands. That's why his supporters are so passionate.

Do you really believe that all the things we enjoy today like women voting, 40 work week, unions, etc. were put in place by some magical president that could convince the senate and the house? They were all implemented by mass popular pressure.


On that...

If you look at what FM nihil mentioned there, Sanders is at least trying to bring another sort of leverage into trying to get things accomplished.

While it very well may not work, just saying "Well, how is he going to get any of this done?" is pretty bonehead.

He is the only person talking about changing the bigger picture when it comes to being able to get things done.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby numberthirty on Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:22 pm

One other thing...

If someone is going to sit around second guessing things when it comes to Sanders, that person might want to take ten or fifteen minutes to put into thinking about exactly what this adds up to.

- https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/01/silicon-valley-ready-to-back-elizabeth-warren-despite-tech-break-up-plan.html

Silicon Valley donors starting to back Elizabeth Warren despite her pledge to break up Big Tech
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby askii on Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:37 pm

College students like the Professor-in-Chief. Even more than they like...Trump?! Small sample, but if this is close to right, my "Gen Z will save us" attitude might need adjusting.

College Reaction/Axios September Presidential Support Index (Sept 23-24) | n=586 students

Warren: 19.5% (+6 since July)
Trump: 17.4% (+1)
Sanders: 15.5% (-)
Biden: 13.1% (-3)
Yang: 10% (+6)
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby the_joe_lemur on Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:14 am

"turn into" QAnon

It's like six years of Clocker Bob threads meant nothing
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:40 am

nihil wrote:You keep using the term socialism. I'm not. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, New Deal Democrat, etc. whatever, but he is certainly not radical or a socialist.


your original post featured the following segment that i zoned in on as my main complaint:

"Look at that moment in the State of the Union where Donald Trump promised that America would “never be a socialist country.” Warren stood up and applauded, as Bernie sat and fumed."

Now you seem to be agreeing with Warren. No to socialism!

Pick a lane.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:47 am

Andrew. wrote:
andteater wrote:
watching this forum go from an awesome place to talk about music and joke around with people and turn into QAnon for 40 year old dudes who spend $10,000 a year on guitar pedals is so awesome.


You could talk about music and joke around on this forum if you wanted to dude.

But you seem to spend all your time on the political threads complaining about the political threads, which seems pathetic and self-defeating. Be the change you want to see.


not true. i have spent a lot of time in the Melvins thread explaining how they suck ass.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby nihil on Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:41 am

andteater wrote:
nihil wrote:You keep using the term socialism. I'm not. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, New Deal Democrat, etc. whatever, but he is certainly not radical or a socialist.


your original post featured the following segment that i zoned in on as my main complaint:

"Look at that moment in the State of the Union where Donald Trump promised that America would “never be a socialist country.” Warren stood up and applauded, as Bernie sat and fumed."

Now you seem to be agreeing with Warren. No to socialism!

Pick a lane.


Hopefully you understand (it's hard to tell) that Donald Trump was using the term "socialist country" as a boogeyman by equating that to authoritarian states like communism in the past saying: "Here, in the United States, we are alarmed by new calls to adopt socialism in our country. America was founded on liberty and independence - not government coercion, domination, and control. We are born free, and we will stay free."

What he was really saying is that "We the rich people are alarmed by new calls to give the working class healthcare, student debt relief, and a strengthened social safety net because it will prevent us from making obscene amounts of money."

Warren had to have known this. Either she's an idiot or we can believe her when she said that she's a "capitalist to her bones". If that's the case, then why is she running on issues that are contrary to that? Again, it's dishonest. You can't have both. Condemning Trump while applauding this speech betrays her hypocrisy. That's the point. She's the one that needs to pick a lane. But she won't.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:19 am

the_joe_lemur wrote:"turn into" QAnon

It's like six years of Clocker Bob threads meant nothing


Ding ding ding.

Ha!
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby curry pervert on Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:47 pm

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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby El Protoolio on Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:17 pm

andteater wrote:
Andrew. wrote:
andteater wrote:
watching this forum go from an awesome place to talk about music and joke around with people and turn into QAnon for 40 year old dudes who spend $10,000 a year on guitar pedals is so awesome.


You could talk about music and joke around on this forum if you wanted to dude.

But you seem to spend all your time on the political threads complaining about the political threads, which seems pathetic and self-defeating. Be the change you want to see.


not true. i have spent a lot of time in the Melvins thread explaining how they suck ass.


I can confirm that this is true. Andy contributes to music threads all the time.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby llllllllllllllllllllllll on Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:58 am

Not really
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:01 am

El Protoolio wrote:
andteater wrote:
Andrew. wrote:
andteater wrote:
watching this forum go from an awesome place to talk about music and joke around with people and turn into QAnon for 40 year old dudes who spend $10,000 a year on guitar pedals is so awesome.


You could talk about music and joke around on this forum if you wanted to dude.

But you seem to spend all your time on the political threads complaining about the political threads, which seems pathetic and self-defeating. Be the change you want to see.


not true. i have spent a lot of time in the Melvins thread explaining how they suck ass.


I can confirm that this is true. Andy contributes to music threads all the time.


Not according to Andy himself:

viewtopic.php?p=2042048#p2042048

Or just click on his profile and scroll through his posts. 95% of his posts are on the political threads, complaining about the political threads.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby El Protoolio on Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:11 am

To be fair, most of the political threads do suck.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:14 am

El Protoolio wrote:To be fair, most of the political threads do suck.


I wonder who's forcing him to spend all his time on the shitty threads that he hates. Maybe he should see a life coach or something.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby jeff_fox on Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:16 am

What I don't understand is, since he's NOT even a socialist, why doesn't he ever state that in his rebuttals, interviews, campaigning, etc., given how unpopular the term seems to be?
I mean, other than not wanting to roll in shit with the trash that makes up most of this country...

It's cool that he's above responding to fucking asinine republican ads depicting mass graves in Soviet russia, but maybe for the sake of the infants that make up most of the voting population it would help to come out and say "this is NOT socialism" more often. Nothing about his platform would have to change, and the only people who would be pissed off about it are the actual Bernie Bros, and a handful of people on this forum.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby jimmy spako on Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:22 am

He's a self-defined democratic socialist. He gave a big speech about the label in June at a university, embraced it further, instead of doing what you're proposing. I don't think younger people are worried about it either way, I mean he cleans up in that demographic. And he'd look like a fool renouncing it considering he's had the word pinned to his jacket since his first public office.

She's a triangulating politician and a capitalist, a reformist. There's no use pretending like she's supposed to act differently than a triangulating politician trying to get elected.

Right now everybody is obsessed with who is the most viable candidate against Trump, but one of these folks has to take out Joe Biden first if you want to see even incremental change.

I hope it's Bernie and it's not over yet. But she may be able to triangulate her way to the nomination.

I also don't think he is our last hope at all. See the squad etc. The tide has turned in a significant way, there's no turning it back when it comes to core socialist values being represented in national electoral politics.
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