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2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

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Elizabeth Warren

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Total votes : 50

Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:38 am

Warren is now a corporatist? For real?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:46 am

The question is simple: what is her plan for health care?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:18 pm

It’s on her website. I just looked. Same level of detail as you see on Bernie’s website. I just looked at that too.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:44 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:It’s on her website. I just looked. Same level of detail as you see on Bernie’s website. I just looked at that too.


This is what I found for her health care plan: https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/health-care

There's a sentence in it that certainly sounds like single-payer but doesn't use the term:

Elizabeth supports Medicare for All, which would provide all Americans with a public health care program.


As I understand it, Warren has been criticized from her right for not costing out or financing M4A and from the left for seeming to soft-pedal and hedge on it repeatedly. Here's a take from the center:

Elizabeth Warren’s Medicare for All Dilemma
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-colu ... ll-dilemma

Warren’s third option, and the one I think she is most likely to choose, involves qualifying her commitment to Medicare for All by again emphasizing its aspirational nature, and stressing that, if she does get elected, other priorities would come first. Adopting this strategy would be less of a reversal than a return to where she started.


At the moment, though, her ill-defined association with Sanders’s Medicare for All proposal risks obscuring the rest of her program. I would expect her to clarify it, and soon.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:02 pm

True, Sanders uses the expression “single-payer,” but Warren emphasizes that hers is a “public” system. I don’t see any difference there.

Both candidates have been criticized about the funding. In Sanders’s case, an earlier plan—I believe the only one he matched with a funding plan—only captured half the total cost. It will be an issue for both of them, because nobody wants to promise to raise everyone’s taxes, even if they also (correctly) promise that non-tax expenditures would drop.

The quoted bit upthread is just a banal comment about how she’ll involve unions and uninsured people in the process. I’ve read the quote multiple times and can’t see anything dodgy about it. If Sanders hasn’t made similar remarks, it would surprise me.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Fri Oct 25, 2019 3:07 pm

There are dollar figures and revenue streams associated with Sanders' M4A plan as well as a schedule for rolling it out (which Warren appears to criticize in the quote, without offering an alternative). And while Warren took heat from her right in the last debate and sidestepped a direct question about increased taxes to fund M4A, Sanders didn't flinch. He said people would pay higher taxes but other costs would be eliminated and people would pay less overall. That unvarnished, honest answer is the best one.

And it has Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman for backup, who say insurance premiums are a poll tax: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aez-zucman
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby brephophagist on Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:34 pm

Andrew. wrote:And it has Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman for backup, who say insurance premiums are a poll tax: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aez-zucman

above linked article wrote:Take again the case of a secretary earning $50,000 in wage and currently contributing $15,000 through her employer to an insurance company. With universal health insurance, her wage would rise to $65,000 – her full labor compensation.

I want Sanders to win and I want M4A, so I really want this bolded assertion to be supported with something more concrete than math, or abandoned as rhetorical smoke. Employers will not just turn away from pocketing 30% of their labor costs without extreme motivation.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby VaticanShotglass on Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:26 pm

brephophagist wrote:I want Sanders to win and I want M4A, so I really want this bolded assertion to be supported with something more concrete than math, or abandoned as rhetorical smoke. Employers will not just turn away from pocketing 30% of their labor costs without extreme motivation.


!!

I can't see how this works for the employee either.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby brephophagist on Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:56 am

I do think M4A would be a better financial move, in the long run, for everyone except insurance companies (...' executives). I just feel like this particular assertion is one that will be trotted out to paint M4A advocates as living in Fantasyland, or worse, unconnected to the reality of normal workers' lives.

Neither Sanders nor Warren have much on their sites in the way of concrete rollout strategy for M4A itself, though Bernie at least has some detail in the form of a few related policy proposals re: drug costs.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby VaticanShotglass on Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:38 am

on the same page here.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby askii on Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:24 pm

Disclaimer: I'm still wading through the various takes on Warren's complicated M4A financing proposal, and it's entirely possible I'm missing some nuance here. Not an economist, etc., etc.

But it sure looks like, in order to avoid saying the dreaded words "middle-class taxes", she has proposed what is essentially an extremely regressive middle-class poll tax that she is betting (mostly accurately, so far) journalists will not describe as a "tax", as opposed to a progressive payroll and/or income tax that would amount to a net middle-class tax cut if private insurance premiums are considered a tax, which they ought to be.

Would be interesting to run this through Saez and Zucman's tax policy simulator, though I suspect one would need a lot more detail on whether this employer head tax replaces or augments other taxes she's proposed.

Politically, I'm skeptical this treatise will have the desired effect of getting the media off her back. It also undercuts the clearest argument for M4A financing, which is the one Bernie and Saez & Zucman have been making, and sows further confusion about WTF M4A actually means by trying to carve out a lane to the right of Sanders / Jayapal. Which is either a bug or a feature, depending on your vantage point.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Boombats on Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:02 am

I would vote for anyone who says "OK here's how many bombs we're dropping and here's how much they cost. I will cut this many bombs which is enough to pay for x and y and z social programs, oh and however many tons of heroin come into our border I am taking a percentage for these other programs, and everyone else can go shut the fuck up with their plans because this is the real world."
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:38 am

Has Warren said anything about the violent, anti-Indigenous rightwing coup in Bolivia? Haven't found anything.

Sanders and Corbyn have both condemned it. They see their politics as part of an international left. Warren doesn't.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby askii on Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:03 pm

Andrew. wrote:Has Warren said anything about the violent, anti-Indigenous rightwing coup in Bolivia? Haven't found anything.

As of an hour ago, no.

Funny, all the Dems have lots to say today about rule of law and the sanctity of elections. And the GOP are up in arms about an imaginary "coup".
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:13 pm

askii wrote:
Andrew. wrote:Has Warren said anything about the violent, anti-Indigenous rightwing coup in Bolivia? Haven't found anything.

As of an hour ago, no.

Funny, all the Dems have lots to say today about rule of law and the sanctity of elections. And the GOP are up in arms about an imaginary "coup".


In Canada, the Trudeau govt has effectively endorsed the coup, as Canada always does. There’s been five coups against elected governments in Latin America and the Caribbean this century. Haiti 2004. Honduras 2009. Paraguay’s “soft” or parliamentary coup in 2012. Brazil’s coup (by way of impeachment) in 2016. And the Bolivian coup this week. Canada has supported each, the first two quite aggressively.

Meanwhile, Canada's milquetoast social-democratic opposition party leader Jagmeet Singh faced mounting pressure and ridicule this week for staying silent like Warren has. He finally made a decent statement condemning the coup last night.

The military-backed far right Christian supremacist senator who has unconstitutionally appointed herself president of Bolivia tweeted this a few years ago:

I dream of a Bolivia free of indigenous satanic rites, the city is not for 'Indians,' they better go to the highlands or El Chaco.


Bolivia is a majority Indigenous country, which is where the Morales base resides.

As you'd expect, the coup plotters have ties to the School of Americas: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/11/13/boli ... -programs/?

Still no word from Warren, hey. Guess her big plan for rightwing coups supported by the USA is to just let them happen.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby curry pervert on Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:11 pm

Andrew. wrote:There’s been five coups against elected governments in Latin America and the Caribbean this century. Haiti 2004. Honduras 2009. Paraguay’s “soft” or parliamentary coup in 2012. Brazil’s coup (by way of impeachment) in 2016. And the Bolivian coup this week.


Not to mention the attempted coup in Venezuela.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby askii on Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:31 pm

Andrew. wrote:Honduras 2009.

One of the grotesque ironies here is that the irregularities that OAS (i.e., the US) alleges took place in the Bolivian elections -- funny business in late returns following a pause in the count, an allegation soundly debunked by careful independent analysis -- are, in fact, precisely what went down during the 2017 Honduran elections that returned Hernandez to power. Which of course was totally cool with the US, even after his bro turned out to be a major drug smuggler.

(A more parochial irony is that our municipal elections last week provided another example of conservatives pretending not to understand how late election returns work, as I noted in the Kshama Sawant thread.)

I'm not fully "Grayzoned" by a long shot, and I recognize the situation is complex and there are legit criticisms of Morales from the left. But it's crystal clear that the coup backers, including this woman Áñez, are utterly horrific. Videos of people burning the Indigenous flag, Luis Camacho "cleansing" the presidential palace with a Bible, etc., etc.

You'd think this would be a no-brainer for US progressive leaders, never mind presidential candidates. Sometimes it's easy to tell who's on the right side of history.

Andrew. wrote:Sanders and Corbyn have both condemned it. They see their politics as part of an international left. Warren doesn't.

"Fight for someone you don't know."
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:36 am

A Barclays analyst likes what he sees in Warren's slow-pedaling on M4A.

Compared to her previous hardline stance on M4A, the new plan represents a significant change in tone, in our view. Not only does the transition plan push out the legislative agenda for M4A (potentially to year 3), but it also tacitly acknowledges the practical and political resistance of pushing too much change too quickly. In fact, we think Warren’s plan was carefully crafted to appease both progressive and moderate Democrats, and may afford her flexibility to pivot on health care issues throughout the Democratic primaries. All said, her near-term plan seems much closer to more moderate proposals endorsed by Biden and Buttigieg; and as such the ‘pivot’ catalyzed HC [health care] Services stocks on Fri with MCOs [managed care organizations] leading the way (+5% vs S&P 500 up 0.8%).


[B]ased on recent history, we note that a US president typically enacts signature legislation during their first two years in office (e.g. ACA under Obama, tax reform under Trump), so the possibility that M4A may slip until year three further decreases the likelihood that this plan comes to fruition, in our view.


https://lbo-news.com/2019/11/18/warrens ... alth-plan/

Seems like that New Yorker columnist I quoted earlier called it.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby seanurban on Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:55 pm

It's more likely that I lose 20lbs before the senate passes M4A. That's probably the healthier option too.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:43 am

A week into the Bolivian coup and now that Indigenous protesters are being massacred, Warren speaks up to say that protesters shouldn't be massacred and that the fascist interim leadership -- which has granted immunity to security forces to kill people -- must bring about new elections.

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1196519189583974402

There has been no conclusive evidence produced by the US-backed OAS of electoral fraud, incidentally.

Warren also says she supports Trump's sanctions against Venezuela.

Some might even argue that Warren is a liberal imperialist and that her supporters are happy to overlook this because at the end of the day, people in places like Palestine and Bolivia are basically savages at the margins of the imperial frontier ("Israel is in a really tough neighborhood" she says).
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