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2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

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Elizabeth Warren

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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:33 am

Her most recent comments on Israel: she's a status quo "honest broker" type. If America's central role in backing the Israeli occupation and apartheid regime is a concern for you, she's not your candidate.

Elizabeth Warren warns of ‘demographic realities, births… bearing down on Israel’ — racist code for Palestinian babies
https://mondoweiss.net/2019/02/elizabet ... lestinian/

Bernie isn't good on Palestine but he's not this bad.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Antero on Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:52 am

I like having her in the race because she has a lot of strong and particular policy ideas regarding financial and antitrust law, some of which are more immediately relevant than general good principles. I don't think she's going to make it that far in the presidential race. I definitely prefer her to anyone who isn't Bernie by a huge margin. That said,

Andrew. wrote:Her most recent comments on Israel: she's a status quo "honest broker" type. If America's central role in backing the Israeli occupation and apartheid regime is a concern for you, she's not your candidate.

Elizabeth Warren warns of ‘demographic realities, births… bearing down on Israel’ — racist code for Palestinian babies
https://mondoweiss.net/2019/02/elizabet ... lestinian/

Bernie isn't good on Palestine but he's not this bad.

"demographic realities" is a bit worse than status quo - like, I don't expect every POTUS candidate to have good opinions on Israel/Palestine but that's some Steve King shit, basically. A lot of "liberal" pols (not just Warren) have positions on Israel that would be denounced as racist or genocidal if they were applied anywhere else, and we need to challenge the fuck out of that.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:06 am

Several people here are skeptical of her chances at getting the nomination. Do people see Warren as in the race to win or what's her goal?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:33 am

I think she’s in the race to win it. I can’t imagine that she’d have enlisted the economists she did if it was just to bring certain issues to the forefront. Or why those particular economists would help her if it was just a symbolic campaign.

538 had an interesting piece the other day that looked at everyone’s second choices. Among Warren supporters, the most common second choice was Sanders. No surprise there. But among Sanders supporters, the most common second choice was . . . Biden?!?! (Warren was the second-most-popular second choice.) But Biden? It must be a name recognition thing at this point, because that makes no sense to me.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby cneutron on Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:09 am

Wood Goblin wrote:I think she’s in the race to win it. I can’t imagine that she’d have enlisted the economists she did if it was just to bring certain issues to the forefront. Or why those particular economists would help her if it was just a symbolic campaign.

538 had an interesting piece the other day that looked at everyone’s second choices. Among Warren supporters, the most common second choice was Sanders. No surprise there. But among Sanders supporters, the most common second choice was . . . Biden?!?! (Warren was the second-most-popular second choice.) But Biden? It must be a name recognition thing at this point, because that makes no sense to me.


Unless they're thinking of meme Biden, it makes no sense at all.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:15 pm

Angus Jung wrote:Warren backs reparations.

That is awesome.


It's good to see reparations on the agenda for discussion. From what I can tell, the minimum version put forward by Harris is tax credits to descendants of slaves. And I honestly can't figure out what Warren's plan for reparations is. It doesn't seem to be spelled out anywhere.

This AP article from yesterday is the most detailed I've seen and there's no indication what reparations might mean for Warren. In fact, it's implied that her universal childcare program (a fantastic idea in itself) would be called reparations because it would disproportionately benefit black people.

That's like a reverse-Bernie rhetorically. Bernie says we need universal programs because they should be basic rights (health care, education, clean water, housing, etc). That's his loud voice. Then in his quieter voice he underlines how these programs all disproportionately benefit POC and women, which is true bc they're disproportionately poor and more exploited.

The AP piece makes it seem like Warren said she endorses reparations and that's what a universal childcare program would be. The opposite direction rhetorically, but it's unclear if what she calls reparations is much different than Bernie's platform in practice.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby tmidgett on Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:05 pm

Andrew. wrote:Several people here are skeptical of her chances at getting the nomination. Do people see Warren as in the race to win or what's her goal?


Yeah, I think she wants to win.

I guess beyond whatever perception there is of her, I'm not sure she can do the internecine stuff you have to do to win a nomination where there are so many moving pieces.

Bernie has several decades of consistency to run on. Harris can and will cut people up.

538 had an interesting piece the other day that looked at everyone’s second choices. Among Warren supporters, the most common second choice was Sanders. No surprise there. But among Sanders supporters, the most common second choice was . . . Biden?!?! (Warren was the second-most-popular second choice.) But Biden? It must be a name recognition thing at this point, because that makes no sense to me.


It makes sense to me.

Bernie's candidacy is a movement that goes well beyond democratic socialism. He only really makes rich people nervous. He makes a lot of not-rich people feel at least comfortable with the idea that they aren't to blame for living paycheck to paycheck and perhaps hopeful that they could somehow live a life that isn't like that, that has some measure of stability built into it.

He does it with policy, but also by seeming like someone who isn't lying to you.

Biden doesn't seem like a liar, either. Certainly his ambivalence about running seems honestly come by, and it helps his standing right now. I think his standing probably drops when he gets in and starts puncturing people's dreams about their possible futures (which is what will probably kill off Klobuchar's "sensible" candidacy--you can't put that genie back in the bottle).

Plus people don't know Sherrod Brown very well.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby the_joe_lemur on Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:51 am

If people are turned off by Bernie for being unpolished, Sherrod Brown has a voice like Tom Waits gargling hydrocholoric acid. But we'll see.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Get dog costumes on Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:09 am

the_joe_lemur wrote:If people are turned off by Bernie for being unpolished, Sherrod Brown has a voice like Tom Waits gargling hydrocholoric acid. But we'll see.

That's how a man of the people sounds, The Jesus Lizard. To say nothing of Brown's nonthreatening hobo charm, and gin-soaked speeches about gentlemen's clubs and war-profiteering relatives.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby warmowski on Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:50 pm

dbl pst
Last edited by warmowski on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby warmowski on Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:58 pm

In which the Senator proposes the excellent idea of breaking up Google, Amazon and Facebook.

There isn't a company on that list that isn't an active danger to its users. What will be interesting is watching where the fault lines will appear. Google the search engine and Google the data broker and Google the ad network seem likely candidates for separation. It's way less clear what pieces FB and Amazon could devolve into.

Ms. Warren’s plan creates two tiers of companies that would fall under the new regulations: those that have an annual global revenue of $25 billion or more, and those with annual revenue of $90 million to $25 billion. The upper tier would be required to “structurally separate” their products from their marketplace. Smaller companies would be subject to regulations but would not be forced to separate themselves from the online marketplace.

Matt Stoller, a fellow at the Open Markets Institute in Washington and a former senior adviser to the Senate Budget Committee, said Ms. Warren’s plan was “practical” and “necessary.” He compared big tech companies to the tobacco monopolies of America’s past, which were eventually subjected to antitrust lawsuits.

“There’s been a traditional sense around the politics of D.C. that these companies are progressive,” Mr. Stoller said. “Their employees give to Democrats, they’re friendly to social liberalism, there’s an idealism to how they talk about the world. That’s been the traditional sense.”

“But these companies have the moral frame of Big Tobacco,” he added. “They don’t care.”

Carl Szabo, who is vice president at an e-commerce trade association called NetChoice, said he felt Ms. Warren’s plan was unnecessary. He warned that it could lead to weaponization of antitrust laws, as legislators target companies deemed to be their enemies.

“Politicizing and weaponizing antitrust law is ripe for abuse,” said Mr. Szabo, who is a professor of privacy law at [concern-trolling libertarian clown car -r] George Mason University’s law school. “We’ve already seen how politics can inject itself into antitrust reviews, and I don’t think our legislators should be encouraging this precedent.”


-r
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:33 pm

I believe Amazon’s most profitable segment is its cloud business. That could be peeled away from its retail business. Maybe distro too.

At the very least, Facebook can and should be blocked from acquiring other social networks.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby warmowski on Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:11 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:I believe Amazon’s most profitable segment is its cloud business. That could be peeled away from its retail business. Maybe distro too.


Yep. AWS (Amazon Web Services) is without a doubt where the wealth is, while the ecommerce side loses an astonishing amount of money. If the retail side was somehow left to itself via breakup it would fold immediately, which makes me tend to doubt that will be the plan.

Facebook and Google search I could see as candidates for digital nationalization, which is a term I just invented and has 11 hits in Google, none of which apply in the sense I'm using it. I mean: federal takeover of a tech giant akin to takeovers of railroads and telegraph lines of old.

-r
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Angus Jung on Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:07 pm

warmowski wrote:Facebook and Google search I could see as candidates for digital nationalization, which is a term I just invented and has 11 hits in Google, none of which apply in the sense I'm using it. I mean: federal takeover of a tech giant akin to takeovers of railroads and telegraph lines of old.

-r

The idea is out there, sort of.

I'd like to see the left take it up more seriously.

Now that Bernie Sanders' 'radical' policy ideas from 4 years ago have more or less entered the Democratic mainstream, Warren is setting the pace with policy ideas, with Bernie playing catch-up to some extent. Cool to see.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:19 pm

Angus Jung wrote:
warmowski wrote:Facebook and Google search I could see as candidates for digital nationalization, which is a term I just invented and has 11 hits in Google, none of which apply in the sense I'm using it. I mean: federal takeover of a tech giant akin to takeovers of railroads and telegraph lines of old.

-r

The idea is out there, sort of.

I'd like to see the left take it up more seriously.

Now that Bernie Sanders' 'radical' policy ideas from 4 years ago have more or less entered the Democratic mainstream, Warren is setting the pace with policy ideas, with Bernie playing catch-up to some extent. Cool to see.


That's the thing about breaking up banks and whatnot -- it's actually easier to nationalize them when they're giants.

I don't know a ton about the mechanics of nationalizations. I know a bit about when in the early 70s here in Saskatchewan a pretty socialist govt got in and nationalized the potash industry (huge here) by buying out the monopoly potash firm. The nationalization was in part spurred or advanced by a capital strike, which is interesting.

But no political party governs to the left of the balance of social forces on the ground. You can govern to the right with capital and the army and police backing you. But it doesn't work on the left if you're weak in the workplace and weak on the ground in a capitalist system.

The same 70s govt that nationalized potash in Saskatchewan imposed wage controls on public sector workers and legislated health care workers back to work to crush a strike during the economic crises of the early 70s. They also opened up the north to uranium mining against the wishes of the majority Indigenous population in the north. And this was a government leftwing enough to be nationalizing industries. People shouldn't trust the state to empower the working class out of the goodness of its moral character or whatever.

So it's interesting when policy discussion is kind of ahead of the status of class forces on the ground. But like, hell yeah, nationalize telecoms, nationalize basic networks of essential communication like the telegraph, nationalize the banks, decommodify education entirely.

At SXSW AOC was saying "capitalism is irredeemable" and that Reagan used the racist invention of the "welfare queen" to manipulate the white working class. And days before that she was referencing the labor theory of value in a Twitter dunk on Ivanka Trump.

Meanwhile I see Marxist friends in my peripheral Facebook vision cracking jokes blaming David Harvey for AOC making an "underconsumptionist" argument about capitalist crisis. LOL. (For some Marxists, "underconsumptionist" is a sick burn fyi)

It's great. I'm excited for the growing American left, and bc America is the hegemon of global capitalism, the more success an anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist left has in America, the better off the world is.

But I guess this is the Warren thread, not the AOC one. Lost myself. Warren believes in "responsible capitalism."
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:04 pm

andteater wrote:
andteater wrote:
Wood Goblin wrote:I mean, at this point, what more can she do?


i think that the entire escapade encapsulates the issue with her. she's clearly a smart woman i'm certain that the majority of people on the left agree with her politics. but she's just a fucking boomer that is clueless when it comes to presenting herself. she took Trump's bait and tried to one up him when clearly nothing she could do in that regard would come off looking good to anyone with a brain.

see that video of her looking relaxed around the house, drinking a beer? for all we know, she was very relaxed and enjoying that beer, but it just looks...awkward. forced. uncomfortable.


so in the past week i've seen her at rallies and i think i need to amend my statement regarding how she presents herself. i stand by the awkwardness of her attempts of seeming like an everyday american, however, when talking to crowds i do realize she is much better than i originally perceived.


just going to keep updating my thread of posts about her because as time goes on i become more and more excited about her. that dumbass Biden calls Pence an "honorable person" and she gets questioned about it and knocks it out of the park:

"Anyone who engages in the kind of homophobia and attacks on people who are different from himself is not an honorable person," she added. "That's not what honorable people do."

Sure, it's a low bar to know that Pence is a dunce, but obviously it needs to be done. Furthermore, her words cut right to the point without sounding too preachy or academic.

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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby catwoman on Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:36 pm

I love her, but I don't think she can win in Amurika.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Pasta on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:49 am

She used the word "Ginourmous" (sp?) in an interview this week multiple times. I hate that made up word.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:32 am

Pasta wrote:She used the word "Ginourmous" (sp?) in an interview this week multiple times. I hate that made up word.


you know, she was my number one choice up until i saw this post. now i hope she drops out.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Redline on Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:21 pm

Pasta wrote:She used the word "Ginourmous" (sp?) in an interview this week multiple times. I hate that made up word.

Did she make a motion with her hands that would evoke a large size?
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