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2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

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Elizabeth Warren

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Total votes : 67

Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby seanurban on Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:00 pm

Yeah I take that line as an indictment of Hollywood. (Ugly meaning normal.) Politicians have to be smart and look electable. Actors just have to look good. It's harder to win national election than win an Oscar.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Me Again on Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:18 pm

The way politicians look should be all but immaterial. I mean, someone like Mitch McConnell would be just as dubious if he looked like, I dunno, John Hamm or some other dude most ladies are into.

In general our culture is too image obsessed, but it's hard to find a way around it in any sphere that entails dealing with the public.


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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby curry pervert on Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:12 am

I have never once encountered a 'Bernie Bro' online, social media whatever, and have yet to see any evidence that they actually exist.

However, I have encountered trumpanzees and centrists talking shit about 'Bernie Bros' quite a few times. That should tell you something.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby tmidgett on Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:16 am

seanurban wrote:Yeah I take that line as an indictment of Hollywood. (Ugly meaning normal.) Politicians have to be smart and look electable. Actors just have to look good. It's harder to win national election than win an Oscar.


I think it's an insult, childish but deserved mostly in that the original line isn't really about raw politics. it's about Washington, and by extension the American political system, with its lobbyists and think tanks and endlessly fundraising, bought-and-paid-for principals. Its two big dumb parties.

It's foolish to think politics writ large are unimportant.

Political parties and establishments work themselves into irrelevance all the time.

Warren's path is...unclear. Nice moment disemboweling Bloomberg on TV. I'm not sure how she builds on it. The thing where she wrote up a contract to get people out of their NDAs with him seems like a stunt. Waste of time. Where does she get her votes?

Every candidate with any juice has obnox supporters. The more juice they have, the more their supporters are gonna be hyped, and the more they'll grate on you if you're not on the train already.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Angus Jung on Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:17 pm

tmidgett wrote:Warren's path is...unclear.

She needs to drop out of the race. Should have done it weeks ago.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby VaticanShotglass on Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:55 pm

Angus Jung wrote:
tmidgett wrote:Warren's path is...unclear.

She needs to drop out of the race. Should have done it weeks ago.


If she does, where will she throw here remaining weight? It would be nice to think it would be behind Sanders, but I don't trust that.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby JFord on Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:10 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:Re: the Bernie Bros, the culinary workers union decided not to endorse Bernie (or anyone else, IIRC), and several Bernie supporters went on the warpath. There were threats, etc. It was very ugly.

And yet what happened? The rank and file of the culinary union delivered an enormous victory to Sanders. "The BernieBros" thing is a media fabrication which supporters of opposing candidates cling to.

He needs to do better than the #AllLivesMatter approach..

What?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Angus Jung on Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:32 pm

FYI - the Sanders campaign has a "4-day festival of music and canvassing" planned in Massachusetts, starting a few days from now. They are not fucking around.

Boy, would it be embarrassing if Elizabeth Warren lost to Bernie in her own home state. She should drop out now and not let that happen.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:44 pm

You don’t think she should stay in the race all the way to the convention, even if she’s been mathematically eliminated?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:49 pm

Here are the people who I wish would drop out of the race:

Mayor Pete
Bloomberg
Biden
Klobuchar
Tulsi

Here are the people I’d like to see stay in:
Bernie
Warren
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Clyde on Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:32 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:You don’t think she should stay in the race all the way to the convention, even if she’s been mathematically eliminated?


It would be one thing if this were a two person race a la Clinton/Sanders Obama/Clinton even Clinton/Brown but it isn't. Honest question, what do you think her chances are at this point? I assume she's banking on either a big Super Tuesday performance to make her relevant again and/or a contested convention in which she gets the nod. Neither seems particularly likely to me. More likely is that an increase in her numbers would ding Sanders but only enough to help out Biden/Bloomberg.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby tmidgett on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:04 pm

Clyde wrote:
Wood Goblin wrote:You don’t think she should stay in the race all the way to the convention, even if she’s been mathematically eliminated?


It would be one thing if this were a two person race a la Clinton/Sanders Obama/Clinton even Clinton/Brown but it isn't. Honest question, what do you think her chances are at this point?


I think that was a dig at Sanders.

2-person race between Bernie and Liz, all for it. She's not getting enough votes, is the thing. People have to vote for you.

There's a play to make it to the convention as a live candidate in the event that it's brokered. Nominee is on a suicide mission if that happens, partic if it's not whoever had the most delegates coming in.

Similarly, if you think Bernie has a nonzero chance of having another health problem, you wanna be around for that, esp if you're Next Best for his most ardent people.

If Biden & Klob drop out and you're Liz and you can go at Mayor Pete and Bloomberg for 2nd, in light of all the above, you're also up for that.

But it comes at you real fast next month.

You gotta make it through Super Tuesday and you can't be blanking on states. Esp if she's 4th or worse in SC, which seems likely.

Right now, she's under the 15% statewide threshold in CA, for example. That sucks if it holds.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:07 pm

think the “nevertheless, she persisted” thing isn’t an act. But I agree that she’s probably banking on a decent-enough Super Tuesday performance.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:10 pm

And yes, it was a bit of a dig at Sanders. The righteousness of a decision to stay in the race is remarkably conditional.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby tmidgett on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:41 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:think the “nevertheless, she persisted” thing isn’t an act. But I agree that she’s probably banking on a decent-enough Super Tuesday performance.


It's her one shot, so she may well hang on by her fingernails as long as possible.

But if she blanks CA, loses her home state, that kind of thing?

Sanders staying in...he was/is backed by a true movement. It's visible, mobilized, energetic. And it was rising going into the convention. And he was one of two candidates. I get why it cheesed people off, but I think that's a little different.

Liz will be lucky to still be 4th in delegates after Super Tuesday. If she's third, then she's got something to ride out March on. 5th or worse, only in it as a possible compromise candidate.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby tmidgett on Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:57 pm

Also, I advocate for reminding oneself every day that there's like a 50% chance that Trump gets re-elected. Way better shot at winning now than he did in 2016.

Hard to beat an incumbent president, and he presses his advantage at every opportunity. That advantage is baked in--you can nominate anyone, and it's there.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:05 pm

True, but it calms me a bit to remember that incumbents don’t usually have such poor approval ratings. And reading the news today makes me wonder how much longer Trump can count on good economic news to help him. Manufacturing is already in a recession, and coronavirus could take a toll on the services component.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:49 pm

tmidgett wrote:And he was one of two candidates. I get why it cheesed people off, but I think that's a little different.


Yeah, two candidates -- with one progressive candidate challenging the one establishment centrist from the left -- is different than one progressive battling three or four neoliberals in the field while a second progressive (who is more centrist than the first) clings to a fourth-place lane.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby PEPPER! on Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:34 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:reading the news today makes me wonder how much longer Trump can count on good economic news to help him

as much as I hate it I think Trump has a lock on re-election unless the economy starts to seriously tank by fall. even then his base will place the blame wherever he deflects it, but people who only tolerate him because their investments have been doing well might think twice.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Me Again on Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:49 pm

Yeah. You wouldn't think so, given what a sham this administration is, and how many people are upset about it, but the incumbent has the inherent advantage, even here.
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