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2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

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Elizabeth Warren

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Total votes : 69

Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:40 am

Pete dropping out mostly benefits Biden and Warren staying in at this point likely draws down Bernie's numbers, no, which also benefits Biden.

It would be one thing if Warren staying in advanced an important issue that Bernie isn't pushing or if she was mobilizing constituencies that wouldn't be there otherwise, but her campaign is doing neither. Her base is mostly older white liberals who'd be engaged either way and she's watering down expectations for progressive policy, not pushing the envelope.

The real test will be whether she ends up endorsing Bernie. Do people think she will?

Drucilla Cornell, feminist theorist and philosopher, had this to say about Warren last year while speaking on a panel:

I knew Elizabeth Warren when I was a professor at the University of Pennsylvania. She was a right-wing Reaganite. University of Pennsylvania had the most progressive logical curriculum in the country. I taught a class on income security. Elizabeth Warren said there is no more ridiculous idea than national healthcare. She's in her thirties at this time.

She was the henchwoman at the right-wing takeover to destroy the left-wing curriculum[...] I don't really know Warren personally, I just knew her as a right wing Republican. And somehow or another God came out of the heavens and turned her into a Democrat. Probably in the very moment that Derrick Bell stepped down from Harvard because he would not work anymore until they hired an African-American woman. Now she couldn't pretend she was black so she pretended she was Native American. [...] There is no more relentless, ruthless nihilist that I’ve ever met in my entire life than Elizabeth Warren [...] And she did succeed in destroying that left-wing curriculum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I1sHtVV634
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby jimmy spako on Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:26 am

Hard to quantify the effects in percentage points or delegates, but she was still around to brutally deflate Bloomberg in a way no one else could have done as effectively, which will probably prove to be a big assist to Bernie, whether meant that way or not (I would tend to be generous and say it was meant at least in part that way). She should bow out whenever she sees fit. I would be fairly surprised if she stays neutral on Biden vs. Bernie (i.e. if she doesn't back Bernie at some point).
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Angus Jung on Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:30 am

jimmy spako wrote: I would be fairly surprised if she stays neutral on Biden vs. Bernie (i.e. if she doesn't back Bernie at some point).

She has shown no alliance or solidarity with Bernie at all. Her most recent campaign speeches all attack him by name.

The only way her current course of action makes sense is that she is angling to be VP in a Biden administration.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby kaleb on Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:44 pm

She has personal animosity against Biden though, and it's mutual going back to W administration fights about bankruptcy laws.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elizabeth- ... cy-policy/

I wish she were clearer about her intentions at this point, I haven't seen clips of her attacking Bernie recently but there are a lot of academic/managerial class people that are gonna have a real hard time letting go of their attraction to her performative wonkery and getting on board with Sanders blunt statements and shouting.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Angus Jung on Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:06 pm

kaleb wrote:She has personal animosity against Biden though, and it's mutual going back to W administration fights about bankruptcy laws.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elizabeth- ... cy-policy/

True, and I thought we were going to see a lot of her going after Biden in the debates and elsewhere, but she hasn't.

I'm trying to figure out what her game plan is. Now that Klobuchar and Mayo have dropped out and are trying to consolidate their voters around Biden, it would make sense for her do the same and get her voters to focus on Bernie. But I don't think she is going to do that.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:18 pm

kaleb wrote:She has personal animosity against Biden though, and it's mutual going back to W administration fights about bankruptcy laws.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elizabeth- ... cy-policy/

I wish she were clearer about her intentions at this point


Warren plans to continue in this race all the way until what she hopes will be a contested Democratic National Convention in July.

https://www.axios.com/elizabeth-warren- ... e26e7.html


A mysterious super PAC supporting Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s presidential campaign is making a late attempt to save her candidacy with a $9 million ad buy in states voting next Tuesday.

Combined with the $3.25 million Persist PAC already spent in Super Tuesday states along with $2 million in Nevada and South Carolina, the shadowy group has committed over $14 million to try to buoy Warren’s candidacy.

All together, Warren — who has made the corrupting influence of dark money central to her candidacy — now has the biggest super PAC advertising in the Super Tuesday states.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/2 ... -ad-118055

Warren is looking more and more like a hypocritical, self-interested asshole.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:34 pm

I doubt very much she will accept a veep role from anyone. That would mean giving up a Senate seat to become a ribbon-cutter.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Boombats on Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:37 pm



Warren is shit
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby tmidgett on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:34 pm

I don't blame her, though I do think Bernie in her shoes drops out and endorses her in a second. I mean, he tried to get her to run in 2016 so he wouldn't have to do it.

She's gonna get like 10% of the popular vote. More in CA. More in MA. Probably loses her home state, though.

If she ends up at 15-20%, then she's hanging around as long as she can. Everyone is old. Joe can barely complete sentences anymore. Who knows what happens.

If she's got the dough, she sticks around through March if at all possible. She thinks she'd be a better president than either Bernie or Joe.

I don't think she endorses Joe. She doesn't like him, and they're on exactly opposite sides when it come to credit and debt, for example--Joe is very credit-card company friendly, she is very consumer-focused.

She loses to Trump if she gets the nomination without winning outright. She's barely even with him in polls, at best. And clearly she doesn't win people over with time, or she wouldn't be in fourth...behind a guy who just gave up.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby curry pervert on Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:55 pm

I can't see her backing Sanders either really. Wasn't that long ago she was disingenuously accusing him of sexist remarks.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:32 am

Apparently Warren is convinced that she would be a much superior president to Bernie, despite the fact Bernie's campaign has built a broad-based and dynamic multi-racial working-class movement that clearly threatens the establishment, while her fourth-place base is mostly comfortable, older white liberals wary of too much change.

Liz don't care because she has the best plans in her own mind. Doesn't matter whether black people, Latino people, or young people in general support her (as they largely don't) she's got the best plans for them whether they like it or not. She will persist in spite of people of color and in spite of the millions of low-wage workers backing Bernie.

And it's cool that Warren includes her pronouns in her Twitter bio, but she's not an intersectional candidate. She's an old white Harvard prof and policy wonk who pretended to be Indigenous for personal gain almost until the age of 70, when it finally blew up in her face for good 15 months ago.

Also: If Bernie wasn't running, if he didn't exist in the race, and Warren was up against Biden alone in a two-way race, then she would be like Bernie in 2016.

But Warren supporters keep making that comparison as if they wouldn't flop the LSAT with that kind of logic. Also: Warren would've had to try to enlist Bernie to run so she didn't have to, and only run after he refused to go up against Biden, for the comparison to be accurate.

Warren is not pushing important issues that Bernie isn't pushing and she's not mobilizing constituencies that Democrats need to mobilize. She's in it on behalf of herself and the elite white liberals who think they know best.

It doesn't get much starker than "She's got a plan for that" vs. "Not me. Us."
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Clyde on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:28 am

Today will answer a lot of questions. If what I suspect will happen happens--Warren not winning any states, not even MA, mostly coming in third--she should immediately drop out and endorse Sanders. It's the simple. She would have essentially no other path to the nomination, unless one happens to believe that she'd get the nods from super delegates on the second vote...which, c'mon, do I really need to explain how far-fetched and ridiculous that is?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:29 am

Elizabeth Warren: A Populist for the Professional Class

Now, as voters head to the polls on Super Tuesday, Ms. Warren’s campaign has all but admitted her pathway to winning the Democratic nomination outright has vanished. She enters March seeking to accumulate delegates for a potential contested convention and is most realistically hunting for them in more educated enclaves, like Seattle and Denver, where she recently held rallies and is investing heavily in advertising.

In many ways, the arc of the Warren candidacy is the story of her cornering an upscale demographic early, only to become confined to it, and then lose her grip on it.[...]

The results in February plainly demonstrate the disconnect between her candidacy and the more blue-collar segments of the electorate, as her performance correlated closely with education levels, rising steadily in precincts where the share of those with college degrees was higher.

In Iowa, she emerged with the most delegates in only a single county, Johnson, the state’s best educated and the home of the University of Iowa.

In New Hampshire, exit polling showed that Ms. Warren sank into a statistical tie among those without a college degree with Representative Tulsi Gabbard, who has been mostly an afterthought in the race.

In Nevada, she again struggled among those who never attended college, earning about half as much support as Tom Steyer, the billionaire businessman who, according to entrance polling, was a nonfactor in the overall race before he dropped out Saturday. Her best demographic groups? Those with advanced degrees and regular users of Twitter.

In South Carolina, exit polls showed Ms. Warren garnering only 3 percent support among those who never attended college (the same level as Mr. Buttigieg).


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/03/us/p ... esday.html?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:46 am

so much time wasted posting angry character assessments about someone who only has a few delegates. what a life to live!

i donated to her campaign a few times. i like her. at this point she has no path, but its up to her to decide when to quit and what she wants to do.

if Bernie is still the most popular politician in the country who would have won in 2016 and will have no problem getting the nomination in 2020 and will defeat Trump easily in 2020, then why the fuck do you all seem so worried all the time. makes no sense.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Clyde on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:59 am

andteater wrote:so much time wasted posting angry character assessments


Projecting
NewDarkAge wrote:Dialectics, mate. No easy answers.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:08 am

Clyde wrote:
andteater wrote:so much time wasted posting angry character assessments


Projecting


just did a check. this was my 8th post on this forum in the past 30 days. Most of them were in the tech forum trying to sell an old MOTU that I had (thankfully Reverb took care of that for me!).

so much time wasted.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:20 am

andteater wrote:so much time wasted posting angry character assessments about someone who only has a few delegates. what a life to live!

i donated to her campaign a few times. i like her. at this point she has no path, but its up to her to decide when to quit and what she wants to do.



Yeah, it's not like Warren staying in the race is a political question or anything. And why discuss it on the thread that is devoted to this very topic. How ridiculous.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby enframed on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:28 am

Andrew. wrote:The Professional Class: Those with Advanced Degrees and Regular Users of Twitter.


Douglas Couplanded your post.
Records for sale.

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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Clyde on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:29 am

andteater wrote:
Clyde wrote:
andteater wrote:so much time wasted posting angry character assessments


Projecting


just did a check. this was my 8th post on this forum in the past 30 days. Most of them were in the tech forum trying to sell an old MOTU that I had (thankfully Reverb took care of that for me!).

so much time wasted.


Hey, I just checked too. A quarter of your posts were you still getting mad at an FM who deleted his account 18 months ago. That takes care of February. Would you like me to quote your January posts? Or, you know, all your posts before that? We can dissect your entire posting history if you want but I feel safe stating that you have a well-earned reputation around here for telling people how much they suck.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby twelvepoint on Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:42 am

Warren fan here. She’s been a good senator and I think what she’s done with consumer protection is commendable and a good, popular way to reduce wealth from hemorrhaging upward.
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