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2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

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Elizabeth Warren

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Total votes : 67

Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby enframed on Fri May 08, 2020 10:59 am

I'm waiting for a Biden defender to use the phrase "alternative facts."
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby brephophagist on Fri May 08, 2020 11:54 am

seanurban wrote:The worst take I keep seeing is, "If it really happened she would have gone to the police."
I must live in a different world.

I had this conversation with my gf's father when #metoo started. Probably the angriest I've been in years. The best hypothesis I have for now: people who say this sort of shit have never felt truly helpless.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Fri May 08, 2020 3:33 pm

brephophagist wrote:
seanurban wrote:The worst take I keep seeing is, "If it really happened she would have gone to the police."
I must live in a different world.

I had this conversation with my gf's father when #metoo started. Probably the angriest I've been in years. The best hypothesis I have for now: people who say this sort of shit have never felt truly helpless.


Yeah, the vast majority of sexual assaults are never reported to the police and the vast majority of that small minority of sexual assaults that are reported to the police do not result in any convictions. What's more, the experience of going to the police is generally dehumanizing and disempowering. Anyone can look up the stats and research on this stuff, but ignorance is bliss.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby mazacultura on Sat May 09, 2020 3:53 pm

Call me a rube, but the whole Warren thing has been deeply, deeply disappointing.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Fri May 22, 2020 8:08 am

A refrain from Warren supporters during the primary was that a potential VP spot w Bernie was an insult, since VP is a ribbon-cutting position. Understandable, except for the obvious fact that VP can be the best stepping stone to POTUS.

Anyway, Warren and Biden dislike each other and Warren is an elite Harvard liberal with tarnished credibility among Bernie supporters, so she's not well positioned to bring leftists or independents or working-class people into the fold as Biden's VP. She adds almost nothing as a vote mobilizer since most of her base are college-educated vote-blue-no-matter-who liberals (plus her own base is pretty small). More likely she's vying for a cabinet position, which also seems unlikely given the pack of neoliberals and Wall St goons driving the No Malarkey Express.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/2 ... ent-271938
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:58 am

andteater wrote:
numberthirty wrote:
askii wrote:
Andrew. wrote:Ball was on Katie Halper and Matt Taibbi's podcast recently, btw.

Oh cool, looking forward to watching this. Halper is terrific. As for Krystal Ball, I really like her but I have no idea how she is allowed to exist. I keep waiting for The Hill's security to break into her underground bunker and shut her down live on camera.


While I don't have anything concrete, I tend to suspect that she might have wound up with the goods on someone while she worked for MSNBC.

"Anything Happens To Me, And My Old Shoe Repair Guy Puts It On The Interwebs..." sort of a deal.


watching this forum go from an awesome place to talk about music and joke around with people and turn into QAnon for 40 year old dudes who spend $10,000 a year on guitar pedals is so awesome.


after seeing that rant from Krystal Ball on twitter today, I gotta say, once again, I was dead on.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:48 am

Just saw the short clip. Not sure if the entire monologue adds more clarity but:

"Some of [Trump's] support is racist. Much of it, is a more oblique yearning for an earlier time when high school educated white men, willing to work hard, could achieve stability. A time when white men were unequivocally on top of the national pecking order."


She obviously should've spelled out that this white-male "yearning" to be "unequivocally on top of the national pecking order" is itself white-supremacist and racist. These monologues are carefully written, not improvised, so she's responsible for how this comes across, and it comes across as a defense of blue-collar white supremacy and nostalgia rather than an analysis of it.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:06 pm

Class-reductionist social democrats (for lack of a better term) have a hard time with postwar nostalgia for similar reasons as liberals.

They say that the ability for white men to make a decent living, buy a home, and raise a family w no college degree -- to work hard and achieve stability -- should not be treated as "white privilege" but as something that should be available to all, not just white men. In other words, the goal is to lift everyone up to the living standards of white men during the postwar boom.

But you can't disentangle the postwar boom from imperialist white-supremacy and patriarchy at home and abroad. The idea that you can achieve that via social democracy suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of how capitalist accumulation works in conjunction with racism and the subordination of women and caregiving work.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:37 pm

consider me shocked that Andrew came up with a pedantic explanation for her pathetic editorial.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Boombats on Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:28 pm

andteater wrote:consider me shocked that Andrew came up with a pedantic explanation for her pathetic editorial.

So what's your analysis?
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:40 pm

He adds so much to every conversation. A real contributor.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Clyde on Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:47 pm

Krystal Ball has always been kinda sketchy. She was a big charter school person when she ran for congress then became a bog-standard MSNBC talking head before rebranding as a populist firebrand. Lately she's been dabbling with white grievance class-reductionism (she co-wrote an entire book on it with her right-wing co-host and pal) as though she's hoping to become the left version of Tucker Carlson. People's views evolve, etc, but her ideological shifts smack of opportunism. She also straight-up endorses a lot of bullshit regardless.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:02 pm

Boombats wrote:
andteater wrote:consider me shocked that Andrew came up with a pedantic explanation for her pathetic editorial.

So what's your analysis?


my analysis is as follows:

i woke up and saw a tweet from the owner of electrical audio that had a video clip of Krystal Ball talking about how Trump supporters aren't really racist, they just long for the way things used to be. I thought "my god, what a fucking moron" and then I thought "this isn't the first time this clown has said something dangerously stupid" and then I thought "isn't she one of the dumbass Bernie or Bust people that is clearly just a grifter?" and then lastly i remembered "didn't someone on the forum talk about how great she was?" and then i did a search on her name and confirmed my suspicion. the fact that i had already responded to the post making fun of the hero worship on this forum made my day.

the fact that Andrew took ten minutes away from writing another 20 paragraph post with full citations to try and explain it away? that shit is priceless.

then i went back to my day.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Clyde on Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:25 pm

andteater wrote:
Boombats wrote:
andteater wrote:consider me shocked that Andrew came up with a pedantic explanation for her pathetic editorial.

So what's your analysis?


my analysis is as follows:

i woke up and saw a tweet from the owner of electrical audio that had a video clip of Krystal Ball talking about how Trump supporters aren't really racist, they just long for the way things used to be. I thought "my god, what a fucking moron" and then I thought "this isn't the first time this clown has said something dangerously stupid" and then I thought "isn't she one of the dumbass Bernie or Bust people that is clearly just a grifter?" and then lastly i remembered "didn't someone on the forum talk about how great she was?" and then i did a search on her name and confirmed my suspicion. the fact that i had already responded to the post making fun of the hero worship on this forum made my day.

the fact that Andrew took ten minutes away from writing another 20 paragraph post with full citations to try and explain it away? that shit is priceless.

then i went back to my day.



Hmm, I'm not sure I believe the guy who made sure to hold onto a grudge at an innocuous post made, like, nine months ago when he says "I went back to my day."
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Boombats on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:04 pm

I thought we were talking about Elizabeth Warren tho
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:15 pm

Lmao

Dude is always on topic, never making it personal. Also always just super chill, going about his day.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:58 am

Clyde wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure I believe the guy who made sure to hold onto a grudge at an innocuous post made, like, nine months ago when he says "I went back to my day."


it's not my fault that i remember everything.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Get dog costumes on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:14 pm

andteater wrote:it's not my fault that i remember everything.

Whether that is true, it is your fault (or credit!) what you do with it.

Check out my posts, I'm constantly remembering completely trivial comments and ungotten jokes people made the last decade and a half and regurgitating them into deep cuts that no one gets the second time, either! That's an example of using memory neutrally. You love to use it to try and do sick burns that do nothing but convince people your life is in the toilet, and that's using it in a bad way. Presumably there is a good way to use it but I haven't figured that out yet. Maybe if you and I work in concert.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Clyde on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:40 pm

andteater wrote:
Clyde wrote:Hmm, I'm not sure I believe the guy who made sure to hold onto a grudge at an innocuous post made, like, nine months ago when he says "I went back to my day."


it's not my fault that i remember everything.


I get it. I remember every petty grievance that makes me irrationally angry too.
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