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2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

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Elizabeth Warren

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Crap
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Total votes : 49

Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Pasta on Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:50 am

Redline wrote:
Pasta wrote:She used the word "Ginourmous" (sp?) in an interview this week multiple times. I hate that made up word.

Did she make a motion with her hands that would evoke a large size?



It was a podcast, so I dunno, but wouldn't surprised.

Warren is definitely not crap. Taking my time on who I wanna throw my support behind. 18 months is a long time.

Words like Ginormous? CRAP
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby eliya on Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:11 am

These last few posts exemplify why she won't be president. She's laying down serious policies and people come in here to criticize her for using words like ginormous or gesticulating with her hands.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby DrAwkward on Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:42 am

I use "ginormous."
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:14 pm

eliya wrote:These last few posts exemplify why she won't be president. She's laying down serious policies and people come in here to criticize her for using words like ginormous or gesticulating with her hands.


She's a reformist policy person who's challenging the establishment without a movement behind her. And she's not the kind of person who can build a huge movement behind her. She doesn't come from a movement tradition and she doesn't have the qualities or politics to generate a pseudo-movement like Obama or Beto.

Warren and Sanders are the only credible reformists in the pack, but only Bernie has the base to take on the establishment in the primary and conceivably win, and from there to defeat Trump.

If people like her more than Bernie, there's a safe bet she'd have a powerful role in a Bernie govt.

I didn't know she and Biden were sworn enemies, but it makes sense.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby eliya on Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:39 pm

Andrew. wrote:
eliya wrote:These last few posts exemplify why she won't be president. She's laying down serious policies and people come in here to criticize her for using words like ginormous or gesticulating with her hands.


She's a reformist policy person who's challenging the establishment without a movement behind her. And she's not the kind of person who can build a huge movement behind her. She doesn't come from a movement tradition and she doesn't have the qualities or politics to generate a pseudo-movement like Obama or Beto.

Warren and Sanders are the only credible reformists in the pack, but only Bernie has the base to take on the establishment in the primary and conceivably win, and from there to defeat Trump.

If people like her more than Bernie, there's a safe bet she'd have a powerful role in a Bernie govt.

I didn't know she and Biden were sworn enemies, but it makes sense.


Sure, but the point is that people aren't taking her seriously. She's showing us real policies and people get peeved by her use of ginormous and how animated she gets when she speaks. Whether that's a bias because she's a woman or something else, I don't know, maybe both. But it's a real thing and her actual work is being disregarded for the dumbest shit.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:27 pm

Andrew. wrote:Warren and Sanders are the only credible reformists in the pack, but only Bernie has the base to take on the establishment in the primary and conceivably win, and from there to defeat Trump.


i do not understand this idea at all. are you suggesting that if Warren won the primary, she wouldn't be able to defeat Trump?

also:

Andrew. wrote:If people like her more than Bernie, there's a safe bet she'd have a powerful role in a Bernie govt.


once again, if people like her more than Bernie, wouldn't that mean she would be the nominee?

i don't know if you mean for it to come off this way but that last sentence reads like "yeah, she's pretty awesome, ya know, for a girl"
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:41 pm

andteater wrote:
Andrew. wrote:Warren and Sanders are the only credible reformists in the pack, but only Bernie has the base to take on the establishment in the primary and conceivably win, and from there to defeat Trump.


i do not understand this idea at all. are you suggesting that if Warren won the primary, she wouldn't be able to defeat Trump?


I'm suggesting she can't build enough of a movement around her campaign to win the primary. Period.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:59 pm

Andrew. wrote:
andteater wrote:
Andrew. wrote:Warren and Sanders are the only credible reformists in the pack, but only Bernie has the base to take on the establishment in the primary and conceivably win, and from there to defeat Trump.


i do not understand this idea at all. are you suggesting that if Warren won the primary, she wouldn't be able to defeat Trump?


I'm suggesting she can't build enough of a movement around her campaign to win the primary. Period.


ok. we shall see.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:12 pm

Andrew is right that Bernie has an (existing) movement behind him that could win him the primary. I wouldn’t be as certain if it was a narrow field, though; the large number of indistinguishable candidates helps Bernie a lot. I think Bernie has a huge shot at winning the primary. I don’t, however, think he has an abnormally large advantage in the general over other Democrats.

Having said that, I wouldn’t characterize (all) of Obama’s support, at least in 2008, as a pseudo-movement. For communities that had been locked out of the presidency for centuries, he was a genuine inspiration. I’ve been through enough elections to see the difference between the excitement of a normal victory vs the jubilation I witnessed in Chicago in 2008.

Whether Warren can create something like that, who knows? “Nevertheless, she persisted” ain’t the worst rallying cry.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:37 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:I wouldn’t characterize (all) of Obama’s support, at least in 2008, as a pseudo-movement. For communities that had been locked out of the presidency for centuries, he was a genuine inspiration. I’ve been through enough elections to see the difference between the excitement of a normal victory vs the jubilation I witnessed in Chicago in 2008.


Yeah, I was in Chicago then, too. And it's a separate conversation that we don't need to derail the Warren thread with. But to give a sense of what I mean, in terms of genuine movement politics vs purely electoral "movements" based around charismatic figures, Obama would never have a grassroots anti-police activist like Destiny Harris, a queer black high school slam poet and #NoCopAcademy organizer, open a huge rally for him in Chicago like Bernie did earlier this month. To the contrary, Obama took all that jubilation from the South Side and went ahead and appointed Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:45 pm

Oh, totally. I just didn’t want to see it reduced to mere charisma. Not sure how I’d characterize it though, since it also wasn’t movement politics, per se.

As far as Warren goes, I sincerely believe that some kind of movement could still form behind her. It won’t be based on traditional movement politics, but it could still pull from that.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby andteater on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:14 pm

Wood Goblin wrote:I wouldn’t be as certain if it was a narrow field, though; the large number of indistinguishable candidates helps Bernie a lot.


I guess it depends on whom you consider the "indistinguishable" candidates. We are a year away from actual voting, so who will be left then? If it's Warren, Bernie, Beto, Biden, Harris and...maybe Booker? I'm not sure that any of them are indistinguishable.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:23 pm

Basically, I’m thinking of a primary season like the GOP in 2016. Maybe Republicans saw big differences between Rubio, Christie, Walker, Jeb!, and Carson, but none of those differences were quite like the one that Trump established. “Conventional Republicans” could split their vote a thousand ways.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby spanning time on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:38 pm

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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby jimmy spako on Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:39 pm

There will still be a mess of candidates around till after Super Tuesday (March 3rd I believe). Whoever has still got money will stick around after that too.

I really like the Warren/Sanders dynamic. I love that she has chosen to fight for the same lane effectively. I feel like they are feeding off of one another, and possibly not unintentionally at all. It's not an oppositional sort of energy. But Bernie has effectively been running for almost four years now, and his messaging is on point, the movement is legitimately there, he will be hard to beat.

I don't think that people are really fixated on silly stuff, the focus here and elsewhere I've encountered is clearly on policy. There's some real fucking policy and initiatives to sink your teeth into this time out, that is fantastic.

I'm excited to see where this can go.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Pasta on Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:02 pm

DrAwkward wrote:I use "ginormous."

Okay, but yer Major Rock Star, not a Presidential Candidate (Yet)

Deleting all your music from my hard-drive.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby the_joe_lemur on Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:47 pm

Pasta wrote:
DrAwkward wrote:I use "ginormous."

Okay, but yer Major Rock Star, not a Presidential Candidate (Yet)

Deleting all your music from my hard-drive.


Myspace took care of that for you
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby jurgis rudkus on Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:07 pm

biggest problem for warren is her wonkery/expertise

both the left and right mostly want to feel relatable to a candidate, but ‘harvard professor’ carries heavy baggage

those on the right feel inferior, and see themselves as having taken shit from eggheads (and egghead systems) for far too long

those on the left see her (correctly) as an elite, meaning upholder of status quo, as in not properly allied with each pet cause du jour


we’ve spent decades nuturing individual self esteem in place of collectivity, such that now almost nobody will suspend their own advantage long enough to effect incremental change
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Antero on Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:12 am

Honestly I think most of her values are in the right place and she could potentially get real momentum despite her lack of "relatablity," she just hasn't been willing to draw the conclusions her policy might demand

(leaving out her foreign policy, which is nnnnnnnot great but in the context of running for boss of an empire is pretty normal)

like, Bernie is not fucking relatable. He's relatable to me, but half my family is literally secular lefty Brooklyn Jews and he may as well be an upstate cousin we invited to a dinner party. He's relatable because he's honest and consistent, and because he listens. Warren could be too.
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Re: 2020 Trump Opponent: Elizabeth Warren

Postby Wood Goblin on Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:12 pm

Warren proposed a 7% marginal tax on all corporate profits (global) of $100 million and more. Of course, won’t interest the press as much as something-something Biden, something-something “electability.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 00-million
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