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Watchmen (TV Series)

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Watchmen TV Show?

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Total votes : 16

Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby cneutron on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:36 pm

DrAwkward wrote:
Nate Dort wrote:
Is Will actually Hooded Justice? Timeline would make sense. He would have been in the NYPD with Hollis Mason in the 40s.


!!!

His preferred method of execution would support this...


Well! Color me impressed.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby Nate Dort on Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:27 pm

cneutron wrote:
DrAwkward wrote:
Nate Dort wrote:
Is Will actually Hooded Justice? Timeline would make sense. He would have been in the NYPD with Hollis Mason in the 40s.


!!!

His preferred method of execution would support this...


Well! Color me impressed.


Although E6 didn't really advance the plot all that much, I think it was the best episode of the season so far.

I thought I recognized that Cyclops symbol on HJ's folder, but I couldn't place it at first. Then I remembered it was in one of the Petey files:
https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata ... idence.pdf
Seems that Sen. Keene is cut from the Cyclops cloth as well.

Another thing to note: While I think it's lazy writing, apparently Agent Blake is now aware of HJ's identity and what Will did to Crawford because Abar was talking throughout her Nostalgia-induced coma. See here:
https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata ... l-work.pdf

The Lady Trieu article has some interesting tidbits. She launched a bunch of satellites, so it's likely one of hers that was orbiting Europa.
Her mother was named Bian, so that seems to lend credence to my earlier theory that she's infusing her mother's memories into her daughter.
https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbodata ... iction.pdf
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby DrAwkward on Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:27 pm

hahahahahaha...holy shit. Hooded Justice murdered Fred Trump!!

https://www.vox.com/2019/11/25/20981767 ... rump-recap
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby jimmy two hands on Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:04 pm

Trying to ignore this but wasn’t hooded justice referred to admiring the third reich prior to pearl harbor in the original comic?
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:08 pm

jimmy two hands wrote:Trying to ignore this but wasn’t hooded justice referred to admiring the third reich prior to pearl harbor in the original comic?


I think the whole message Will used to carry around that his father had gotten from the Germans in WW1 will be reinterpreted as his "sympathies" for Germany at this time, but yes, the change from pretty clear White Supremacist to a black man on the show is probably the hardest to believe when it comes to a coherent Watchmen universe.

That said, I'm still enjoying it! I don't get how picky some people are being with it (not the racists, just comics people), I think it's a really good 'remix'. That Lady Trieu woman is irritating but it's really captured the style of the comic well.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby DrAwkward on Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:13 pm

I feel like that could easily be explained as Will trying to deflect from his identity at some point.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby cneutron on Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:49 pm

GrantMcNeilly wrote:
jimmy two hands wrote:Trying to ignore this but wasn’t hooded justice referred to admiring the third reich prior to pearl harbor in the original comic?


I think the whole message Will used to carry around that his father had gotten from the Germans in WW1 will be reinterpreted as his "sympathies" for Germany at this time, but yes, the change from pretty clear White Supremacist to a black man on the show is probably the hardest to believe when it comes to a coherent Watchmen universe.


That isn't hard to believe at all!
Remember, this is before "the capes" were a known commodity. Nobody knew how to cover them, media was different then and disinformation was absolutely rampant.

Remember that there is was a rumored origin of him being a circus strongman too? Rolf Müller? Who eventually DID get outed as a kid killer and nazi criminal. In the movie he had an accent, but nobody is considering the Snyder movie canon, right?

What better way to throw somebody off the scent of him being a black man in partial whiteface than with a rumor that he was a Kraut around THAT TIME!

Also remember that in the comics, he's the only one whose fate is unknown. It's presumed he died, if nothing else from old age because of the time period. It is not known though. Pretty easy for a masked hero to just take off the mask right?

Hooded Justice also semi-interrupted Sally Jupiter's rape at the hands of the Comedian, the rape that led to the pregnancy that was Laurie.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby El Protoolio on Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:06 pm

Not to quibble but I’m pretty sure he had that accent in the comic too. But I’m too lazy to check my copy of the book. Someone google that for me.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby DrAwkward on Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:49 pm

cneutron wrote:Hooded Justice also semi-interrupted Sally Jupiter's rape at the hands of the Comedian, the rape that led to the pregnancy that was Laurie.


A quibble here:

I've always read that as an attempted rape, and that Sally and Blake hooked up after this incident. I think that's how most people see that timeline of events.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:58 pm

cneutron wrote:
GrantMcNeilly wrote:
jimmy two hands wrote:Trying to ignore this but wasn’t hooded justice referred to admiring the third reich prior to pearl harbor in the original comic?


I think the whole message Will used to carry around that his father had gotten from the Germans in WW1 will be reinterpreted as his "sympathies" for Germany at this time, but yes, the change from pretty clear White Supremacist to a black man on the show is probably the hardest to believe when it comes to a coherent Watchmen universe.


That isn't hard to believe at all!
Remember, this is before "the capes" were a known commodity. Nobody knew how to cover them, media was different then and disinformation was absolutely rampant.

Remember that there is was a rumored origin of him being a circus strongman too? Rolf Müller? Who eventually DID get outed as a kid killer and nazi criminal. In the movie he had an accent, but nobody is considering the Snyder movie canon, right?

What better way to throw somebody off the scent of him being a black man in partial whiteface than with a rumor that he was a Kraut around THAT TIME!

Also remember that in the comics, he's the only one whose fate is unknown. It's presumed he died, if nothing else from old age because of the time period. It is not known though. Pretty easy for a masked hero to just take off the mask right?

Hooded Justice also semi-interrupted Sally Jupiter's rape at the hands of the Comedian, the rape that led to the pregnancy that was Laurie.


I mean, I think it works technically but I'm looking at it from an academic perspective (probably an overly academic one, but I can't help it that's my thing). When I contextualize Moore's comic into both the time that it was written and the message he seems to have been making (Rorschach's methods vs Ozymandias' running along the lines of libertarianism vs. neoliberalism, and the postwar American consensus/Dr. Manhattan's retreat after Vietnam/1975), I think a critical aspect of the comic was the idea that the impulse towards vigilantism comes from problematic (white male) political reformist anger rather than cathartic acts of rage on the part of a minority (although of course William wants to fix things). I think one of the book's most daring elements is that it is open about the unwarranted rage of the majority, which culminates in Dr. Manhattan's almost not saving humanity (Rorschach is sympathetic to a lot of people because he's the only one of the Watchmen who is not privileged). Every "superhero" in the comic is a reformist white guy or a woman being used by an enterprising white guy (there is the silhouette but we learn nothing about her, which is no surprise). I feel like making Hooded Justice an African American is sort of a genius twist on Lindelhof's part but in the context of the comic it's not something Moore would ever have done and is just that - a twist.

It's kind of like the thing batman fans were saying after 'Joker' came out, that it was a great film with a cool twist on the joker, but it's not the calm, collected joker of the comics, but a person pushed to the brink.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby DrAwkward on Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:09 pm

GrantMcNeilly wrote: I feel like making Hooded Justice an African American is sort of a genius twist on Lindelhof's part but in the context of the comic it's not something Moore would ever have done and is just that - a twist.


I think i completely agree with this assessment. No way in hell did Moore picture Hooded Justice as African American but i think i love the twist even more for it.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby cneutron on Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:39 pm

DrAwkward wrote:
cneutron wrote:Hooded Justice also semi-interrupted Sally Jupiter's rape at the hands of the Comedian, the rape that led to the pregnancy that was Laurie.


A quibble here:

I've always read that as an attempted rape, and that Sally and Blake hooked up after this incident. I think that's how most people see that timeline of events.


I've read it at least a dozen times, but admittedly... not in years.
You might be right.

GrantMcNeilly wrote:I feel like making Hooded Justice an African American is sort of a genius twist on Lindelhof's part but in the context of the comic it's not something Moore would ever have done and is just that - a twist.


Well, considering how Moore (very consistently) has distanced himself from all adaptations, to the point of having his name removed. I kind of like that aspect of it. It's the material living on past where it came from.

I do agree with your assessment, that it's clearly not where he was going with it, as far as the political, privilege and superhero critique it was meant to be. Wouldn't have even been part of the agenda. HJ mostly exists as a catalyst and a nod to the darker side of the Golden Age/Pre-Golden Age vigilante heroes anyway.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby Nate Dort on Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:05 pm

cneutron wrote:
DrAwkward wrote:
cneutron wrote:Hooded Justice also semi-interrupted Sally Jupiter's rape at the hands of the Comedian, the rape that led to the pregnancy that was Laurie.


A quibble here:

I've always read that as an attempted rape, and that Sally and Blake hooked up after this incident. I think that's how most people see that timeline of events.


I've read it at least a dozen times, but admittedly... not in years.
You might be right.


This is revealed in the last few pages. Blake visited Sally some years later.

Image

There's more detail in one of the Peteypedia documents also:

The epilogue to this story occurred eight years later. While not dramatized in “Internal Affairs,” we
should know it — or rather, know it accurately, since this tale is much gossiped-about in the office —
so we can understand how complicated this history is for our colleague. In 1948, Blake, now a decorated
war hero and a super-solider in the employ of the United States military, visited Jupiter, who had retired
from masked life in 1947 to marry Schexnayder. A consensual sexual encounter ensued. From the affair
came a daughter, Laurel Jane.
Jupiter raised her daughter to carry forward her legacy in more ways than one, starting with her family
name, Juspeczyk. She also raised her to be a costumed adventurer, a next-generation Silk Spectre until
she was forced into retirement in 1977 with the passage of the Keene Act. Agent Blake did not know the
identity of her father until 1985. Shortly thereafter, she adopted his family name, as well a version of his
alias. Silk Spectre never wore a mask, but “The Comedienne” did. The second act of her vigilante career
concluded one year after the death of her mother when she was captured by the FBI in Oklahoma City and
offered a plea deal that required her to become a special agent of the Anti-Vigilante Task Force.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby numberthirty on Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:35 am

cneutron wrote:
DrAwkward wrote:
cneutron wrote:Hooded Justice also semi-interrupted Sally Jupiter's rape at the hands of the Comedian, the rape that led to the pregnancy that was Laurie.


A quibble here:

I've always read that as an attempted rape, and that Sally and Blake hooked up after this incident. I think that's how most people see that timeline of events.


I've read it at least a dozen times, but admittedly... not in years.
You might be right.

GrantMcNeilly wrote:I feel like making Hooded Justice an African American is sort of a genius twist on Lindelhof's part but in the context of the comic it's not something Moore would ever have done and is just that - a twist.


Well, considering how Moore (very consistently) has distanced himself from all adaptations, to the point of having his name removed. I kind of like that aspect of it. It's the material living on past where it came from.

I do agree with your assessment, that it's clearly not where he was going with it, as far as the political, privilege and superhero critique it was meant to be. Wouldn't have even been part of the agenda. HJ mostly exists as a catalyst and a nod to the darker side of the Golden Age/Pre-Golden Age vigilante heroes anyway.


As Nate pointed out, this is indeed the way it happened.

If you think back to Blake's reaction when Laurie's mother pulls her away in the original series, it makes way less sense if Laurie was the product of the attempted rape. That said, it makes perfect sense in the scenario Nate mentioned above.

Since everything is out in the open, there is also the "Before Watchmen" set of limited series to consider.

While most folks tend to not be up to speed on that they even exist, the Before Watchmen: Minutemen series goes into a lot of what has come up here.

As for the actual identity of Hooded Justice, the current television series seems to be lifting from the Before Watchmen: set of miniseries. While they went in a different direction with who H.J. actually was, I find it kind of hard to buy that the parallel take on it not being Rolf winds up being just some sort of a coincidence.

That said, the most likely identity of Before Watchmen: H.J. is a bit more poetic as far as his stepping in to stop the attempted rape.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby jimmy two hands on Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:20 pm

Watched the latest episode last night. I'm starting to get really annoyed with this show, I feel like it's turning into mystery box fanfic. Maybe it will turn out good once it wraps up, but the whole Veidt side story is a frustratingly vague drag and I have a feeling their setting up to have the same machine in Antarctica that failed to destroy Dr Manhattan in the last act of the comic show up soon. One way or another someone is going to say "I'm very disappointed in you" before the end of the series, and that disappoints me.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby hackthesidesaway on Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:22 pm

I am absolutely loving this show!!
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:33 pm

The show jumped the shark for me this week. Wasn't into Laurie's huge explication in front of Mrs. Crawford, wasn't into the elephant, not into Veidt completely changing personalities from the book. I did like all the scenes in Vietnam though.

I'm actually starting to think 9 episodes is too short for the show, and it's now feeling a bit rushed?

Whatever the case, i'm glad it looks like Looking Glass is ok and I think the show in general has captured the spirit of the comic book, which is nice.

Also, I think I'm the only person on the planet who thinks Regina King is not that great of an actress. She's fun to watch people beat up and stuff but for some reason when she's on screen I don't find her believable at all.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby dipsophonic on Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:06 pm

Never got too heavy into the graphic novels, and the movie that came out a few years back was pretty hollywood garbagio.

This HBO series is darkly tongue-cheek, dystopian, with relevant social commentary, and Reznor and Atticus Ross slay on the soundtrack work.
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby llllllllllllllllllllllll on Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:50 pm

The graphic novels still kick the shit out of this show
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Re: Watchmen (TV Series)

Postby the finger genius on Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:52 am

numberthirty wrote:That said, the most likely identity of Before Watchmen: H.J. is a bit more poetic as far as his stepping in to stop the attempted rape.


Who is it?
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