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Warren will endorse:

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Elizabeth Warren will endorse:

Sanders
1
4%
Biden
4
17%
Nobody
16
70%
Clinton
2
9%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby tmidgett on Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:02 pm

Her endorsement doesn't really matter, I think.

Narrow band of die-hard supporters. Highly educated, white, mostly women, from 40 to like 55. And there's not that many of them. And a lot of people among her supporters are already committed to Biden or Sanders now.

Very very low support among Latinos and African-Americans. Just doesn't bring in very much. Nice to have, not going to swing it either way.

Remaining in through Super Tuesday--whatever, she was running so of course she stayed in, same as Bloomie did. But that made a much bigger diff than her endorsement would.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby PARPS on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:17 am

I gotta say, regardless of the impact her endorsement might have, the idea of "she doesn't owe us anything" about a fucking elected official is wild to me
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Boombats on Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:56 am

Justin Foley wrote:Boombats... I hope he takes my response to his post as an argument, not a condemnation.

Thanks, I do (the former).

PARPS wrote:I gotta say, regardless of the impact her endorsement might have, the idea of "she doesn't owe us anything" about a fucking elected official is wild to me

Yeah. Ok, once this is all over, sure she should go retire from public view whenever and for as long as she wants. Same with Sanders- he's putting his golden years on the line here for us and didn't even owe it to anyone to run this second time. But while they're in some sort of office they need to help keep democracy moving.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby PARPS on Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:28 am

This explanation of it actually made a lot of sense to me:

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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Andrew. on Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:30 am

Justin Foley wrote:As for what's working class women should believe - I'm not one and I really try not to speak on behalf of anyone that I'm not.


The Sanders campaign has by far the most support among working-class women. It's not speaking on behalf of them to point this out or to point out that Warren never had or gained much support among working-class women.

You 'd never know that from much of the white liberal feminist appraisals, however, so it needs to be stressed. And it's not just that Warren was a bad campaigner -- it's baked into her politics.

Part of what is articulated between the Sanders lane vs the Warren lane, is working-class feminism (which is by definition multi-racial) vs white liberal feminism.

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Again:

It's hard to get my head around how she wouldn't endorse Sanders if she's committed to improving people's lives and defeating Trump.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Clyde on Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:54 am

I don't think Warren's lack of endorsement has anything to do with hurt feelings or lingering resentment. She's looking at the polls and seeing what everybody else is seeing: she doesn't think Sanders has a chance and she isn't going to blow political capital on an endorsement when the entire Democratic establishment as well as groups such as NOW are encouraging her not to. While that is an understandable position to take it is also disappointing. Being a good political leader means taking risks and standing up for what's right even when it isn't expedient and you don't stand to benefit. That doesn't make her shit in my book. She's still one of only, like, four Democratic senators I would call good. But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Andrew. on Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:11 am

What have her left critics been wrong about? They doubted her commitment and honesty re: M4A and she proved them right. They doubted her fidelity to an insurgent progressive movement that's challenging the status quo and she proved them right, by going down while taking Super PAC money, punching to her left at the Bernie campaign (unprovoked), and finally refusing to endorse the only viable progressive campaign for the nomination. Her left-wing critics have been proven right every step of the way, unfortunately.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby tmidgett on Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:18 pm

Andrew. wrote:What have her left critics been wrong about? They doubted her commitment and honesty re: M4A and she proved them right. They doubted her fidelity to an insurgent progressive movement that's challenging the status quo and she proved them right, by going down while taking Super PAC money, punching to her left at the Bernie campaign (unprovoked), and finally refusing to endorse the only viable progressive campaign for the nomination. Her left-wing critics have been proven right every step of the way, unfortunately.


Yeah.

That's true.

Her failure to endorse Sanders tells you what you need to know, if you were still sold on her as being essentially the same on the issues.

Good candidate, compared to the rest, but still...

But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.


Absolutely.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Angus Jung on Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:38 pm

Elizabeth Warren sucks. I'm deeply sorry to everyone I've offended by saying this.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby PARPS on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:18 pm

Clyde wrote:I don't think Warren's lack of endorsement has anything to do with hurt feelings or lingering resentment. She's looking at the polls and seeing what everybody else is seeing: she doesn't think Sanders has a chance and she isn't going to blow political capital on an endorsement when the entire Democratic establishment as well as groups such as NOW are encouraging her not to. While that is an understandable position to take it is also disappointing. Being a good political leader means taking risks and standing up for what's right even when it isn't expedient and you don't stand to benefit. That doesn't make her shit in my book. She's still one of only, like, four Democratic senators I would call good. But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.


Isn't putting political capital over stated principles exactly what the GOP does with Trump? Would her endorsing Sanders really affect her ability to be an effective senator? No way in hell she's going to be in a Biden cabinet, let alone his VP. While I think you're right, that definitely undercuts her portrayal of herself as an outsider and righteous crusader.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Boombats on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:28 pm

Clyde wrote:IShe's still one of only, like, four Democratic senators I would call good. But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.

How the fuck is refusing to fight for what one claims to believe "good"?
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Angus Jung on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:33 pm

Boombats wrote:
Clyde wrote:IShe's still one of only, like, four Democratic senators I would call good. But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.

How the fuck is refusing to fight for what one claims to believe "good"?

Medicare for All: She supported it. There was some disingenuous, bad-faith pushback about taxes going up = she caved.

Super PACs: No way in hell was she taking money from no Super PACS! Until she needed money = she caved.

Don't be a mark.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby llllllllllllllllllllllll on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:46 pm

She sucks
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Get dog costumes on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:51 pm

Jamey I was going to buy your EGC but you're making it really hard and if you do not walk back your hurtful statement I will have no choice but to take over the order of FM githasan
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby llllllllllllllllllllllll on Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:54 pm

I’m just wondering what really happened on that campaign. Those NDA’s can’t protect her forever

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Chilling.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Boombats on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:02 pm

Angus Jung wrote:
Boombats wrote:
Clyde wrote:IShe's still one of only, like, four Democratic senators I would call good. But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.

How the fuck is refusing to fight for what one claims to believe "good"?

Medicare for All: She supported it. There was some disingenuous, bad-faith pushback about taxes going up = she caved.

Super PACs: No way in hell was she taking money from no Super PACS! Until she needed money = she caved.

Don't be a mark.

Ah, ok, I get it now.

So, like, I'm against putting Jews in concentration camps. So I'm good. But the Nazis said we had to do it, so I caved. I guess I'm still good!
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Clyde on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:10 pm

PARPS wrote:
Clyde wrote:I don't think Warren's lack of endorsement has anything to do with hurt feelings or lingering resentment. She's looking at the polls and seeing what everybody else is seeing: she doesn't think Sanders has a chance and she isn't going to blow political capital on an endorsement when the entire Democratic establishment as well as groups such as NOW are encouraging her not to. While that is an understandable position to take it is also disappointing. Being a good political leader means taking risks and standing up for what's right even when it isn't expedient and you don't stand to benefit. That doesn't make her shit in my book. She's still one of only, like, four Democratic senators I would call good. But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.


Isn't putting political capital over stated principles exactly what the GOP does with Trump? Would her endorsing Sanders really affect her ability to be an effective senator? No way in hell she's going to be in a Biden cabinet, let alone his VP. While I think you're right, that definitely undercuts her portrayal of herself as an outsider and righteous crusader.


Yes, that's a a good point and I meant to add a bit about it being a short-sighted strategy. Electoral politics is all about building coalitions and I think it's fair to say that she'll need Sanders voters if she ever wants to do anything on a national scale again.

Boombats wrote:
Clyde wrote:IShe's still one of only, like, four Democratic senators I would call good. But it does make me question whether she'd actually fight for the things she says she believes in as much as she claims she would, and it makes me less enthusiastic toward her going forward.

How the fuck is refusing to fight for what one claims to believe "good"?


Because I'm speaking in broad terms about flawed politicians who I generally believe put forth policies that are something other than cynical and venal. It doesn't mean that I sign off on anything that they do. If I didn't make it clear enough earlier, my opinion is that Warren's refusal to endorse Sanders is craven and when I say I'm disappointed that also means pissed. Saying I get why she did it doesn't mean that I approve of it.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Boombats on Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:20 pm

She's like the mom who keeps promising her kids that she'll take them away from the abusive dad, but decides to stay because he pays for her lifestyle. Some "Flowers In The Attic" type shit.
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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Justin Foley on Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:17 pm

Andrew. wrote:What have her left critics been wrong about? They doubted her commitment and honesty re: M4A and she proved them right. They doubted her fidelity to an insurgent progressive movement that's challenging the status quo and she proved them right, by going down while taking Super PAC money, punching to her left at the Bernie campaign (unprovoked), and finally refusing to endorse the only viable progressive campaign for the nomination. Her left-wing critics have been proven right every step of the way, unfortunately.


"Look at the way things turned out" is a pretty ambiguous criticism. To wit: the centrist-Dems are having a field day with Sanders claiming they were right all along - he alienated big chunks of needed voters, his promises to expand turnout in a national election were way overinflated, his rabid supporters were largely bark with little bite, he writes policy checks he can't cash.

That's a bullshit criticism of Sanders but seems to follow the same basis for evidence that you're employing with Warren.

Whatever, maybe I'm wrong. I'm watching two of the best national politicians in my lifetime take a fall in the matter of a week and a half and so I'm in a bad mood tonight.

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Re: Warren will endorse:

Postby Justin Foley on Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:23 pm

You know what, I'm going to leave that there ^ although I'm tempted to erase it.

Apologies. There are a lot of people on this forum and elsewhere who have been uniquely inspired and energized by Bernie Sanders. The news tonight is really bad and if you're one of those folks, you're probably depressed as hell.

Salut to you all, let's figure out how to live to fight another day. Grouchy internet snipers be damned, myself included.

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