Podcast: Chapo Trap House

[Andrew.]

It's good leftwing politics to make a return appearance on a millionaire white-supremacist's tv show -- after you helped vilify immigrants in your first appearance -- to yuck it up discrediting the entire U.S. left a day after a white supremacist mows down dozens of people in cold blood at a Walmart near the border. Great contribution to the cause.

Nagle is a fucking idiot. She implies there's more cranks among the DSA today as opposed to in older leftwing factions and the Catholic Workers movement (an opinion that's divorced from reality and ahistorical).

Because it suits her anti-SJW contrarian brand and it scores her points w Tucker against the snowflakes, she dismisses the notion of invisible disabilities as a joke, when any shop steward, union rep, union activist, or occupational health and safety expert could inform her that invisible disabilities are a major component of union activism -- workplace activism that has made significant and life-saving gains for working-class people w mental health issues, etc. But then, Nagle doesn't doesn't have a clue about labor organizing or workplace struggles and doesn't care to.

Meanwhile, standard, status-quo social-democratic party conventions can also devolve into hours of tedious procedural delays and useless grandstanding by individuals if there isn't strong chairing/moderating. Maybe the DSA Convention was extra specially bad and maybe it wasn't, I wasn't there, but yucking it up w millionaire white-supremacist TV personalities at the expense of the left is just more confirmation that Nagle is interested in whitebread economic nationalism and self-promotion, not working-class struggle. She clearly has a lot more common cause w Tucker Carlson than with people like Heather Heyer or Eric Garner.

[Clyde]

Hey, not for nothing this was Tucker Carlson last night on white supremacy:

The whole thing is a lie. If you were to assemble a list, a hierarchy of concerns, where would white supremacy be on the list? Right up there with Russia probably. It’s actually not a real problem in America. The combined membership of every white supremacist organization in this country was able to fit inside a college football stadium. I mean, seriously. This is a country where the average person is getting poorer and the suicide rate is spiking. White supremacy, that’s the problem. It’s a hoax. Just like the Russian hoax. It’s a conspiracy theory used to divide the country and keep a hold on power. That’s exactly what’s going on.

This is pretty much in line with Nagle's brand of "class-first materialism," no? And of course Nagle's good pal Anna K. had a similar line in her dumb interview the other week.

[brephophagist]

Only listened once. Felt like I was listening to a Marxist* version of Car Talk**. Didn't give it a second whirl.

* - that's not a detriment
** - but that is

[kaleb]

It’s a conspiracy theory used to divide the country and keep a hold on power. That’s exactly what’s going on.

I mean, yeah, that is what white supremacy is. No hoax about it. It's goddamn exhausting to realize there is no level of "I know you are but what am I" projection that the right-wing media won't sink to.

[Andrew.]

Here's a write-up on the DSA convention from someone who was actually in attendance that further demonstrates how full of shit Nagle is.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/08/ ... f-comrades?

[dontfeartheringo]

I've been thinking about this a lot, because I feel in some ways that Chapo is slipping. I didn't get it when I first tuned in, then eventually came around, now I have some questions about where they're headed.

I will say this:
It's important not to discount the contribution that Chapo has made to discourse, whether it was done in a way that you approve of or not.

Matt Christman is really good at distilling down ideas into digestible soundbites that have helped define what's actually happening. There's a lot of confusion about where we're headed in the Trump era. Matt gets it, mostly because of his tremendous knowledge of left history.

Speaking of that, Matt talks about leftist history in ways that people would never have been exposed to in their education in this country. No one in my 18 years of schooling mentioned Operation Gladio. No professor in any of my college years (I am just a few classes short of an MA in HISTORY) ever mentioned the Years of Lead. No one mentioned the UAW actions in the '70s. No one ever talked about the rise of fascism in the US, especially as it involved Henry Ford. No one talked about Direct Action in the South at spinning mills IN MY HOME STATE. Christman has mentioned all of those things, either in his Inebriated History extended episodes or just in passing on regular episodes.

The genuine, boundless and well-deserved contempt that the Chapo crew has for the DCCC and the DNC has influenced the thinking of thousands of Millennials. Well done.

They've humiliated Jake Tapper on multiple occasions. Well deserved.

They have ridiculed the cult of personality and savior complex that seems to deeply infect the #RESIST crowd, who seem to think calling Donald Trump a "cocknugget" on Twitter is some kind of meaningful direct action.

They've rained derision and contempt upon the intellectual standard bearers for the ultra-nationalist Israel lobby in New York and Washington. I knew vaguely of the odious Podhoretz clan, but Chapo Trap House has called them out and belittled them and shitty politics and goddamn, someone needed to.

They could probably use a permanent POC member of their team. They could probably have found someone with a more comprehensive knowledge of 3rd wave feminism and Leftist gender politics than Amber Frost, but I don't think they ever planned on being anything more than a political comedy podcast.

And while they seem a little lost about their future direction right now, I continue to listen because I think they'll either sort it out or spin something off that is useful and productive. If Matt ever starts his own podcast, it'll be a "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" moment for me.

The Left loves a circular firing squad. I think it's because what informs a lot of our politics is a distrust of authority and power, but let's not forget that the right loves power, and loves to consolidate it, even if they've got small ideological differences with their fellow bootlickers.

I believe that criticism and dialog is the strength of the struggle and that Chapo is part of that.

/end of rant.

[llllllllllllllllllllllll]

They posted a Bernie interview a few days ago!

Re: the Christman comment above - if you want more of that, the best leftist history podcast is Radio War Nerd, hands down.

[mrcancelled]

And while they seem a little lost about their future direction right now, I continue to listen because I think they'll either sort it out or spin something off that is useful and productive. If Matt ever starts his own podcast, it'll be a "SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY" moment for me.

I agree with this and everything else you mentioned. Especially with going back and listening to the older episodes, I find something to be a little off balance with them lately by comparison, but I can't quite place what it is.

The show does a great job balancing and interspersing wankery/humor with some more, I don't know how to phrase it, insightful conversation. When I'm tired after work and embarking on the hour+ long drive home it really hits the spot, when other more "serious" podcasts or audiobooks or whatever that I like would be a little hard for me to focus on and absorb. Lately though, the Trillbillies have been scratching that itch a little bit better. But I'll keep listening. And yeah, a show with just Matt covering history or whatever would be amazing.

[biscuitdough]

I would love to see a pod or a series of discussions with Matt and say, a trot and an anarchist. Try to demonstrate common ground rather than stoke the division that's fucked up the left since the 30s (or before).

The edgy kids with their sadistic shock jock antics seem to dominate Chapo these days. I definitely credit it with a lot of my left education, but it's been crap for a while.

[Andrew.]

Excellent (if largely uncomedic) episode w Naomi Klein on climate justice

https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house ... ein-101419

[Boombats]

They could probably use a permanent POC member of their team. They could probably have found someone with a more comprehensive knowledge of 3rd wave feminism and Leftist gender politics than Amber Frost

[Clyde]

The Joker episode was one of the worst things I've ever heard. Just beyond dumb.

[mrcancelled]

The Joker episode was one of the worst things I've ever heard. Just beyond dumb.

Yeah, that was pretty terrible. And the cumtown guys are annoying as hell.

[Boombats]

Haven't heard that ep but in general I think Chapo brings down their brand when they associate themselves with Cumtown.

[Angus Jung]

The one recent episode I'd recommend is when they talk to Tom O'Neil, the author of the really good recent Manson book "Chaos." I think that's a Patreon episode. I haven't listened to Virgil's interview with Bernie Sanders but that's probably good?

There have been quite a few lately where I read the synopsis of what the episode is about and I don't bother listening. Not really interested in their takes on movies/pop culture.

[Andrew.]

The one recent episode I'd recommend is when they talk to Tom O'Neil, the author of the really good recent Manson book "Chaos." I think that's a Patreon episode. I haven't listened to Virgil's interview with Bernie Sanders but that's probably good?

Virgil is a softball interviewer. Doesn't matter who he interviews, he doesn't press them on anything. In this interview Bernie says that inequality and the neoliberal era have been caused by corporate greed. That's a liberal answer, not a Marxist or a socialist one. As if one day around 1980 the ruling class just decided to get more greedy than they were before and now here we are. Bernie never talks about capitalist crises or contradictions of capitalism or profit rates or overproduction or any of the political-economic stuff Marxists do, but it would've been interesting to hear him pressed on that. I don't think Virgil knows anything about that stuff either though.

There's nothing new in the interview if you're familiar w Bernie's usual talking points.

[mrcancelled]

The one recent episode I'd recommend is when they talk to Tom O'Neil, the author of the really good recent Manson book "Chaos." I think that's a Patreon episode. I haven't listened to Virgil's interview with Bernie Sanders but that's probably good?

This was a good one indeed, I want to read the book at some point soon. I think I listened to most of the Manson story on the You Must Remember This podcast but I don't recall many details surrounding the fishiness of the investigation or the stuff surrounding Manson's history with law enforcement (though I'd reckon O'Neil's book may be the first time a lot of this stuff is brought to light).

There's nothing new in the interview if you're familiar w Bernie's usual talking points.

Yeah it wasn't so bad but Bernie largely stuck to his normal setlist, not really essential listening.

[Clyde]

Sigh. Amber back on her bullshit. She just published an anti-DSA screed in American Affairs Journal, the same super right-wing site that published Nagle's immigration piece. I'm not going to link to it and give them the traffic but suffice it to say, it sucks. Full of ridiculous assertions and half-baked shit-stirring. At this point she's either a crank or a crypto.


(The Amberless episode about the Chicago's teacher's strike was good fwiw)

[mrcancelled]

Sigh. Amber back on her bullshit. She just published an anti-DSA screed in American Affairs Journal, the same super right-wing site that published Nagle's immigration piece. I'm not going to link to it and give them the traffic but suffice it to say, it sucks. Full of ridiculous assertions and half-baked shit-stirring. At this point she's either a crank or a crypto.


(The Amberless episode about the Chicago's teacher's strike was good fwiw)

Christ. When I first started listening she was the reason I kept tuning in. Over time though she got more and more insufferable on and off the show. I feel like for the past year whenever she's been on the show she just chimes in about what drugs she's doing.

Anyway, that sort of too-cool reactionary contrarian bullshit masquerading as leftism (read: Red Scare) is so fucking weak. Sad that Amber has gone in that direction (or maybe is just starting to show her hand).

[Andrew.]

I saw someone pull an excerpt from the article that includes this quote:

Membership in the DSA, for example, is no longer a black mark on a Google search; it is a respectable middle-class organization where young, educated go-getters can demonstrate their leadership skills, work ethic, and commitment. As such, it at­tracts downwardly mobile yet aspirational members of the PMC [professional managerial class], who can very easily trade on their participation in an ostensibly socialist organization for the sort of progressive bona fides that get you that corner office.

OK, Amber.

The editor of American Affairs is the kind of Harvard hedge fund creep Chapo would normally eviscerate, but in this case he's Amber's collaborator.



Not sure how publishing in American Affairs jibes with the old school working-class solidarity Amber claims to celebrate, but presumably it pays better than Jacobin or The Baffler.