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Film: Joker(2019)

Vote and debate.

Moderators: kerble, Electrical-Staff

So...

- Crap
5
22%
- Not Crap
13
57%
- Toss Up
5
22%
- Not Bad, Just Not My Thing
0
No votes
- Non-Poll Option: It's No "Shakes The Clown"
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 23

Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby numberthirty on Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:52 pm

Andrew. wrote:Someone report back on whether this is or at least passes for an alt-right anti-hero movie. Some stuff I see flittering around suggests it critiques Trump while other stuff suggests it's a story of some poor white dude who's set off by black women on public transit and goes off like an alt-right incel anti-hero or something.


Having seen the film, someone would had to have walked in bound and determined to believe this even if they screened The Blues Brothers in the place of this film to walk out of the theater believing this after the credits rolled.

There is even a specific scene near the end of the film that spells it out to anyone who isn't trying to ignore it to get whatever out of it.

To specifically address the "Set Off By Black Women On Public Transit..." element(ignore this if you want to go into the film cold) -

Arthur has a neurological condition that results in fits of physical laughter that is not dictated by how he feels. When the woman you mentioned asks what is funny, he hands her a card that explains the condition. She reads it, and says that she is sorry after handing it back. There's about a minute where there's a sort of sympathetic moment between the woman and him before they move on to the next scene.

As for the film, Phillips was little too heavy-handed with what you were supposed to get out of it at the end(felt like the guy should have personally showed up and tapped his fingertip against my temple to make sure I got it...) The final scene between Arthur and the woman I assume is his "State Provided" mental health professional is also along the same line. There are also some serious lifts from the films that have been mentioned.

Really good, if not brilliant, film.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby atomjackfuser on Sat Oct 05, 2019 2:48 pm

Phoenix is great, but I didn't like it. It felt largely pointless.

Edit: I should mention that I have never liked Taxi Driver
Last edited by atomjackfuser on Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby Ike on Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:51 pm

He'll win the Oscar.

It flew by, which is a quite a feat these days.

The "Bernie" that will incite the revolution against the 1% turns out to be Bernie Goetz.

I do not know if I enjoyed this film in any traditional sense at all. Taxi Driver references abound. The violence was astounding. Budd Dwyer level nuts.

It's basically The Master part two at times.

Will watch again, but I don't know what else I'm looking for, to be honest.

My wife laughed a lot, and so did I, but it was out of nerves more than anything.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby numberthirty on Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:26 pm

atomjackfuser wrote:Phoenix is great, but I didn't like it. It felt largely pointless.


Something about that(I'll "Spoiler" copy it...) -

]During the close of the film when he was on the couch at the show, there is that whole exchange over comedy and who decides what is funny. If you've caught any of Phillips talking about the film, he has had a bit to say about how the current climate has made making a certain sort of comedy an impossibility. When that exchange happened, I thought to myself "Oh, Joker." It was like someone put about twelve pieces into a twenty piece puzzle when I only had three in by myself.

To me, that took just a little bit away from the film.

On what Ike was saying about laughs, I was in a "Half" row in the theater I saw it in. A guy sat down up against the wall in the same row. In that last row, he was almost completely off in the darkness. Dude's "Color" commentary at a few points during the film was something that helped keep it from getting to heavy. A few folks seemed annoyed with him, but I was kinda glad that he came out.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby biscuitdough on Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:20 am

I usually can't bear comic book movies, with the 1989 Batman as a nostalgia-based exception. They seem to be trying to make it an atypical comic book movie, so I might give it a try.

Regarding the "which Todd?" discussion from page one, I'm glad it's the "Hated" guy and not the "Happiness" guy. Solondz is as misanthropic as Harmony Korine but without any of the insight or talent.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby mattw on Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:48 pm

*Some minor spoilers*

I thought it was brilliant- obviously, there are the Taxi Driver and King of Comedy reference points, but I thought Network was also one, particularly with regard to the media, and creating monsters. My reaction to it was also interesting...I thought of that movie Funny Games. There was a certain exhilaration to some of the violence shown on screen- mainly, I'm thinking of the Wayne Enterprises douches. The other scenes were very horrific and/or shockingly violent. So it forces you to examine your reaction to violence on screen, and perhaps the 'kick' you get out of seeing certain characters meet their maker.

Everyone is going to interpret the movie differently, but I felt like the overall intentions of the filmmakers were to make a (sometimes less than subtle) social commentary on the media, and it was a critique, not a celebration of violence.

Joaquin Phoenix was a joy to behold in this role- some of the decisions that he made were very intriguing and he clearly spent a lot of time unraveling this character and getting in their skin, as he does with many of his roles. Wow.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby enframed on Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:38 pm

mattw wrote:*Some minor spoilers*

I thought it was brilliant- obviously, there are the Taxi Driver and King of Comedy reference points, but I thought Network was also one, particularly with regard to the media, and creating monsters. My reaction to it was also interesting...I thought of that movie Funny Games. There was a certain exhilaration to some of the violence shown on screen- mainly, I'm thinking of the Wayne Enterprises douches. The other scenes were very horrific and/or shockingly violent. So it forces you to examine your reaction to violence on screen, and perhaps the 'kick' you get out of seeing certain characters meet their maker.

Everyone is going to interpret the movie differently, but I felt like the overall intentions of the filmmakers were to make a (sometimes less than subtle) social commentary on the media, and it was a critique, not a celebration of violence.

Joaquin Phoenix was a joy to behold in this role- some of the decisions that he made were very intriguing and he clearly spent a lot of time unraveling this character and getting in their skin, as he does with many of his roles. Wow.


I pretty much agree with the above. I also felt there was a little Andy Kaufman in there as well. People will read into this what they want, and that was kinda brilliant. I'd like to see the Heath Ledger Joker again as I don't remember the film or role at all, but I remember wondering why people thought his performance was such a big deal. Phoenix's rendition I get why the conversation.

I will add that the score was fantastic, and I had never heard of Jackson C. Frank ("My Name is Carnival") before, so great. I did think that certain soundtrack choices were odd: Gary Glitter, Cream, just didn't make sense to me.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby Andrew. on Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:16 am

I spent some time browsing reviews over the weekend after after seeing it and I haven't found a single review that's worth reading on its own merits (they're only interesting if read symptomatically).

It's well worth seeing but contra the Venice International Film Festival, Michael Moore, and Matt Christman, I don't think it's a cinematic masterpiece.

I'd also bet JP gets an Oscar (emaciated physique clinches it right?).
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby mattw on Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:55 pm

enframed wrote:I also felt there was a little Andy Kaufman in there as well. People will read into this what they want, and that was kinda brilliant. I'd like to see the Heath Ledger Joker again as I don't remember the film or role at all, but I remember wondering why people thought his performance was such a big deal. Phoenix's rendition I get why the conversation.

I will add that the score was fantastic, and I had never heard of Jackson C. Frank ("My Name is Carnival") before, so great. I did think that certain soundtrack choices were odd: Gary Glitter, Cream, just didn't make sense to me.


I was thinking of Kaufman, too- and the whole anti-humor or awkward humor that is unfunny turned into funny. Really, the whole last setpiece at the Murray Franklin show was a big 'OH SHIT!' moment, where I genuinely didn't see the move coming and was shocked. The last time I remember having a reaction like that was in the early seasons of House of Cards (US Version).

The Ledger Joker- and Bane too, really- they're just set up as madmen that want to see the world burn. But it's much more interesting to see the context of why Joker's life spins so out of control. I also liked that they focused on some intricacies of the mental health system, and how it lets people down. One of the touches I liked was the employee at Arkham making sure that Arthur's Mom signed off on the file- because in most movies, they would just give him the file- no problem.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby llllllllllllllllllllllll on Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm

It’s great for what it is. I fucking hate superhero movies but I liked this one a lot.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby Heaven is in your beard on Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:59 am

enframed wrote:
I will add that the score was fantastic, and I had never heard of Jackson C. Frank ("My Name is Carnival") before, so great. I did think that certain soundtrack choices were odd: Gary Glitter, Cream, just didn't make sense to me.


Hearing "The White Room" at the end felt a little spooky, given the co-incidence that Ginger Baker died in the same week the film was released. As for "My Name is Carnival", whoever picked that song for the soundtrack knew exactly what they were doing. Given that Jackson C. Frank struggled with disabilities (both mental and physical) and homelessness throughout much his adult life, his story chimed in too well with Arthur Fleck's for its inclusion to be a coincidence.

Have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the film overall. I didn't discern any connection with the incel movement or the alt-right other than the fact that the Joker was pushed to the margins of society by circumstances beyond his control. I also thought Robert de Niro's turn as Murray Franklin was the best role he's played in years, even if his casting was perhaps too obviously intended to bolster "Joker"'s connection with "Taxi Driver" and "The King of Comedy". If I've one criticism it's that the last half hour packed in so many climactic events that it felt a little too rushed to be truly convincing, resulting in one of the few cases in which I came away with the impression that a film I'd seen could have benefited from being 15-20 minutes longer.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby hackthesidesaway on Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:52 pm

not crap. not a great work of art, but not crap.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby tmidgett on Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:00 pm

Surfs on the lead. Great movie that easily could have been bad, if someone else had done like 75% of what he did.

The reviews and thinkpieces I skimmed were trash. Lazy criticism, if they were even really criticism.
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Re: Film: Joker(2019)

Postby GrantMcNeilly on Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:58 pm

tmidgett wrote:Surfs on the lead. Great movie that easily could have been bad, if someone else had done like 75% of what he did.

The reviews and thinkpieces I skimmed were trash. Lazy criticism, if they were even really criticism.


They weren't. Richard Brody's take on it was quite possibly the worst take on any film I've ever read, ever.
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