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Podcast: Chapo Trap House

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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby kokorodoko on Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:11 am

Andrew. wrote:It's nonetheless odd to condemn the DSA's class politics in a rightwing magazine edited by an Ivy League hedge fund capitalist.

How so? Writers publish in all sorts of different places regardless of political profile. Perhaps it could be said that this particular remark is better suited to an internal discussion with the DSA. But then again it was not the main point of the article - it is used to illustrate that point.

The very same phenomenon discussed in those paragraphs was noted by early social democrats, as well as the Bolsheviks post-revolution - an inevitable consequence of organizations growing and becoming more popular. It is not to be underestimated - especially considering the still ambiguous stance of the DSA (shared by all other Western leftist movements at present) towards working within established structures vs. building independent structures, and considering that these movements are still struggling to carve out an independent discourse.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby Andrew. on Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:49 am

kokorodoko wrote:
Andrew. wrote:It's nonetheless odd to condemn the DSA's class politics in a rightwing magazine edited by an Ivy League hedge fund capitalist.

How so? Writers publish in all sorts of different places regardless of political profile.


If it doesn't matter where someone publishes their political writing then there's no point discussing it because the premise of your argument is so generic it evacuates all distinctions.

It's one thing for a leftist to publish in "the bourgeois press" like the NYT or The Guardian or whatever to reach more people and build hegemony for their politics. That can make sense. Publishing critiques of leftwing organizations, and hashing out strategic arguments, in obscure rightwing journals is different, for reasons that should be obvious. Unless your point is simply that "writers publish in all sorts of places" in which case we both agree just like we can agree that the Earth is round.

Not interested in belaboring the point further.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby kokorodoko on Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:37 am

Yeah I see your point, and I agree with it.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby JFord on Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:12 am

Andrew. wrote:
kokorodoko wrote:
Andrew. wrote:It's nonetheless odd to condemn the DSA's class politics in a rightwing magazine edited by an Ivy League hedge fund capitalist.

How so? Writers publish in all sorts of different places regardless of political profile.


If it doesn't matter where someone publishes their political writing then there's no point discussing it because the premise of your argument is so generic it evacuates all distinctions.

It's one thing for a leftist to publish in "the bourgeois press" like the NYT or The Guardian or whatever to reach more people and build hegemony for their politics. That can make sense. Publishing critiques of leftwing organizations, and hashing out strategic arguments, in obscure rightwing journals is different, for reasons that should be obvious. Unless your point is simply that "writers publish in all sorts of places" in which case we both agree just like we can agree that the Earth is round.

Not interested in belaboring the point further.

Heads up: Nancy Fraser (socialist feminist), Dean Baker (left-wing economist), L. Randall Wray (another left-wing economist), James K. Galbraith (yet another left-wing economist), Wolfgang Streeck (socialist economist), John B Judis (long-time left-lib) and Slavoj Zizek have all published in American Affairs.

The exact same phenomenon Frost observed in her DSA chapter is actively happening in mine as well. I am glad she wrote about it. It is bad.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby Gramsci on Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:27 pm

This is your second post on the board...

Odd
clocker bob may 30, 2006 wrote:I think the possibility of interbreeding between an earthly species and an extraterrestrial species is as believable as any other explanation for the existence of George W. Bush.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby biscuitdough on Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:46 pm

If there's one thing leftists clamor for, it is surely for more writers to emulate Zizek, am I right? Fellow kids?
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby kokorodoko on Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:03 am

Gramsci wrote:This is your second post on the board...

Odd

Might be a long-time lurker.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby Andrew. on Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:35 am

JFord wrote:The exact same phenomenon Frost observed in her DSA chapter is actively happening in mine as well. I am glad she wrote about it. It is bad.


You and another person on the thread said it's happening and I acknowledged the point on the last page. Which DSA chapter?
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby Clyde on Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:28 pm

"The young go-getters out there joining DSA to get corner offices" reminds of "Archie Carter's" essay for Quillette, and strains credulity similarly.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/quillette ... ion-worker

Here's the thing-I don't necessarily begrudge left-wing writers for publishing in right-wing magazines. I can't speak to the Nancy Fraser et al pieces because I haven't read them and I'm not going to now just to post but George Scialabba has written several pieces for The American Conservative, for example, and they don't make me question his values. (http://georgescialabba.net/mtgs/the-ame ... servative/) There are a couple of key differences though.
One, he wasn't out there bashing his own side to a bunch of reactionaries (unless you count his piece on Christopher Hitchens who had already gone full neo-con several years earlier). It's one thing to make common cause with the right when it has to do with illegal wars, completely another when what you're trying to appeal to them by sharing your mutual dislike of the DSA.
Two, even when he was highly critical, as with his piece on Christopher Hitchens, he wasn't writing polemics. He's always fair, careful to point out subtleties, apply the principle of charity, etc...
Whatever Amber's strengths are as a writer, charity and subtlety are not among them. Which, whatever, can be fine sometimes. Her recent piece on WeWork was far from subtle but it also reminded me of why I liked her when I first encountered her. But when it comes to "the PMC," it gives me such a headache. (Frankly, nearly all the discourse surrounding the PMC over the last several months had.) Part of what's so frustrating about the piece is there is a grain of truth to it: a good deal of the left, esp DSA is made up of what could be called the PMC: white kids from upper middle class backgrounds when went to Oberlin or Sarah Lawrence. Recognizing that is important, but if she were being fair she wouldn't try to use the term as a cudgel and she would also recognize her own place within the PMC. I've heard conflicting things about her background but at this point I'm pretty sure making six figures as a podcaster let alone teaching at NYU qualifies.
I've already wasted enough time on this but If anybody cares, the best two pieces about the PMC--maybe the only two good ones I've read--are below. One is a new interview with Barbara Ehrenreich, who helped coin the term and therefore knows a thing or two about it and the other is the thing from n+1. Both of them I found far more worthy than Frost's piece.

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_ ... ehrenreich

https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/onl ... ial-chasm/
NewDarkAge wrote:Dialectics, mate. No easy answers.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby Gramsci on Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:29 am

Quillette, FFS. That’s basically a welfare program for useful idiots.
clocker bob may 30, 2006 wrote:I think the possibility of interbreeding between an earthly species and an extraterrestrial species is as believable as any other explanation for the existence of George W. Bush.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby octoberallover on Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:06 am

I wanted to listen to their coverage of Iowa but then I heard the sound of Amber’s voice.

I haven’t really enjoyed Chapo since Brendan left. Cancelled my Patreaon recently so I could give the money to Bad Gays.
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Re: Podcast: Chapo Trap House

Postby Andrew. on Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:51 am

octoberallover wrote: so I could give the money to Bad Gays.


That looks interesting. I'll check it out.
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