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Session Documentation #1: Velocity

Waste management tips, fly-on-the-wall tatics, etc.

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Postby MTAR on Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:59 pm

looks good Intern_8033. I might have more useful comments later, but I just wanted to say that the (new?) red jumpsuits are wicked, man.
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Postby cgarges on Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:22 pm

I agree completely! A job truly well-done and deserving of inclusion on this informative website.

One note of importance for me when documenting sessions is to note specific adjustments to each mic. For instance, there are alot of variables to AKG 414s. What pattern were they set to and were the hi pass filters or pads engaged, and if so, to what settings? Same for the SM98.

Just a note. Excellent job!

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Postby cgarges on Thu Jul 17, 2003 7:26 pm

Also, because I had a post a while back about the kick batter mic issue, I have a particular interest in Russ' technique. Just out of curiousity, was he ducking the kick mic on the way to tape or just monitoring that way?

Thanks!

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Postby danmaksym on Thu Jul 17, 2003 8:05 pm

Intern,

You've done an incredible job. I admire your dedication to "doing things right". I think the links to the different pieces of equipment are unnecessary and would gladly give them up to save you the energy you would need to maybe include a few more equipment details...

Thanks for your hard work. It's definitely an entertaining and informative piece...


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good jaeerb!

Postby nick92675 on Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:13 am

intern-

i commend you for your fine work. indespensible even. it's this type of attitude that should propel you to the upper escehlon of the intern caste. then, you just might make it to the serfs in your next life.

though - if the setup is still intact - i'd like to see the placement of the drum ambient mics if not a huge trouble. and i agree about the links to mics and such - it's helpful a bit - but much more of a frill that i'd rather give up for more pictures/discussion. we're all big kids and can make our way over to the equipment list if we want to learn more.

outstanding work.

-nick
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Postby greasygoose on Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:01 am

Nice work, Intern. I have to say, though, if that particular drummer walked into one of my sessions, I think I would be inclined to pull out the shittiest mics I could find. He's what musicians refer to as a "clubber." Didn't he write that song "Walk Loudly and Carry a Big Dick"??

Seriously, though, I have a question about mic placement. From the pictures, it appears that the tom mics are more or less parallel to the head of the drum (i.e. they're pointing straight down at the head, a few inches in from the shell). The snare mic looks to be in a similar position, but aimed more toward the center of the drum. Why do you suppose Russ did this? Do you think it's because a snare drum emits less tone than a tom tom, or is it to prevent Rummy from whacking the snare mic (he smells fear and snuffs it out)? Maybe both?
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give me the whys

Postby benadrian on Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:37 am

Hey man, it was a pretty picture show... and nice to read.

For a fellow like me, it'd be interesting to get the why of mic placement choices. For instance, I would ask the following questions given a non-annoying window of possibility: Why are the overheads that distance from the top of the kit? Why are the overheads delayed 20ms? Is that to bring them into time-coherence with the ambient mics, or was that not an issue?

That's the kind of stuff that pokes at my brain.

Also, Mr. 8033, if the dimentions to the Electrical/Dietz 1-15 bass cabinets are kicking around anywhere, feel free to post them.

thank you,
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Re: give me the whys

Postby russ on Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:48 am

benadrian wrote:Why are the overheads that distance from the top of the kit? Why are the overheads delayed 20ms? Is that to bring them into time-coherence with the ambient mics, or was that not an issue?


Yeah, that's a mistake on Intern_8033's part. It was the ambient mics that were delayed 20ms, not the overheads. That's something Steve taught me. There's a great reason why that he can explain better than I can, and it takes a pretty little picture to do so. So, I won't do it.

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thank you,Intern_8033

Postby gaetano on Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:13 am

i notice there's a mic under the floor tom.is that one of the josephsons?
also,were the mics under the toms phase-reversed?

you did a really good job documenting this,thank you.
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...

Postby googacky on Tue Jul 22, 2003 4:58 am

this is exactly the sort of stuff that those of us who aren't interns love to see. it's like being a vicarious intern. thanks for taking the time to enlighten us. i do have some questions. how is the ambient mic in the dead room set up? both guitars and bass were tracked in the same room, correct? does the ambient mic pick up all three of these elements or is it intended mainly for the guitars? also, what is the panning situation for such a mic? wouldn't it smear stereo placement on the guitars? i've never tried a catch-all ambient mic like this, so i'm interested in how it's used and what it's like.

thanks.
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Postby russ on Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:46 am

The ambient mic in the dead room (where the bass cabinet and guitar cabinets were) was placed across the room from and roughly in between the two guitar cabinets. Here's some ascii art to clarify.

BC = BassCabinet, GC1 = GuitarCabinet1, GC2 = GuitarCabinet2, M = Microphone
Code: Select all
BC       GC1     GC2 
 
 
 
              M

The way that I typically use an ambient mic, you're not going to be getting many spacial cues from it when it's used with the close mics. Unless you are going for a certain effect or if only one guitar is playing at a time, I'd generally have this panned somewhere in the middle. You can figure it out pretty easily if, for example, let's say that you have GC1 mostly panned to the left, GC2 panned mostly to the right and you have a good balance between the two, you solo up those with the ambient mic, move the pan of the ambient mic around the center point until you feel like you have a good balance, bring in the bass to see if it gets weird, and, if it doesn't, then you're done.

An ambient mic like this for your guitars can really add some realism to the sound of electric guitar amps, that's why you'll see it used quite often. It probably comes from realising that the sound of the guitar amps was better whenever some bleed from the talkback/scratch vocal mic was in the monitoring mix.

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Postby cgarges on Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:26 pm

Gaetano,

I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong, guys) that it's another 414 under the floor tom.

Russ,
Thanks much for the info on the ambient mic. I'm waiting in anticipation of Intern's article on the mix sessions. I'm quite curious about pan positions, especially in regard to stereo recording of amplifiers. By the way, what did you learn regarding the use of the Sony mics? I have my own opinions of them , but I'm curious as to what you found. Thanks again.

Chris Garges
Charlotte, NC

PS-Spell check caught "I'm" and "mic," and "mics." Does the spell check have something against contractions and abbreviated studio terms?
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Postby Bernardo on Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:34 pm

This is a great thread, thanks a lot Intern_8033 and Russ for the details.
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lets not overlook the obvious...

Postby eml1122 on Wed Jul 30, 2003 11:32 am

everyone's input has been dead-on with intern 8033's description of this recording session...however, i believe that the forum has been too generous in overlooking a glaring mistake that this intern has made right off the bat. "Velocity" is not an awesome band name. in fact i would say that velocity is a horrible band name. next time i would like to see an alias with a little more character like "sad panda priapism" or "anal jihad."
that being said, i would very much like there to be a next time because this is an excellent use of interns/forums.

-eric
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Postby Schaal on Wed Jul 30, 2003 12:11 pm

Silver Sparkle.

Even Rumsfeld must have good taste sometimes.
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Postby Swat on Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:10 pm

The jumpsuits are very nice! Are they supplied buy the studio? Is it a colour co-ordination thing? Who does the laundry? Do you use colour-safe detergent? Do you have a preference of fabric softeners? Are they allowed to leave the studio? Has anyone stolen one? Do you iron them? Are you wearing anything underneath them? Meow meow! OK, seriously, it looks very nice, and thanks for the pics. Now I only need to save up for a year and buy a Coles...
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room mic on guitare ???

Postby seb on Mon Jul 05, 2004 5:59 pm

Hi,

I have tried to put a third mic about 4 or 5 feet from the guitare cabinat and it alway's seems to be out of phase, I have tried to invert the phase, I've tried with condenser's, dynamic's... nothing will do it.
Is this just the room sound that gives me that impression or did I do something wrong?
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Postby bubbleboy on Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:04 pm

Hi seb

You're not wrong and it's next to impossible to get the ambient completely in phase but that (to me at least)is part of the point. People tend to forget that phase isn't always you're enemy and can actually be used creatively. For instance, if you're double tracking a rhythm part try panning close mics hard left and right and the ambients to the opposite 3 and 9 oclocks to their close mic counterparts. As you bring the ambients up you'll hear the comb filtering effect wash the guitars in to the track a bit more in a way that I at least really like.

Glad to see steve does the 20ms ambient mike trick too. Been doing that for a while to clear up phase relationship and give the impression of a larger room. Also good to see the two close mics on bass pointing at the same place, another favourite of mine. The ducking on the batter side of the bass drum was a great idea that never occured to me. Are they're any other applications for ducking mics from others on a kit you've found work well?

Anyway, already taken far too much of your time up but thanks loads for the insights anyway intern.
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Re: Session Documentation #1: Velocity

Postby TheMilford on Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:44 am

Any way we could get the images and links restored in this thread?
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