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Reputable schools? SAE?

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Reputable schools? SAE?

Postby skatingbasser on Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:18 pm

I was wondering if you in the field could fill me in on the general reputation of schools.

Right now I'm leaning towards School of Audio Engineering in New York. I was also looking at Columbia, but the closer to Philadelphia the better. I think I'd also like SAE because it's nowhere near the size of Columbia.

I'm at the tender age of 17, I really have no idea what the general feeling is towards these or any other schools (Except for Full Sail.. thank you). I understand completely that my work and attitude will be a larger factor in possible intern/job placement, but this is a concern of mine since I will be applying to school fairly soon.

Oh and thanks for all your personal advice/experiences given to others in different threads, I've read and admired all of your wisdom!
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Postby zoyomakate on Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:41 am

hello

so i had to Register and respond to this, I attended full sail 4yrs ago and don't understand why everyone is so down on full sail. I can say that i loved it and compared to any other school i cant see why it has such a bad rap. I was employed withing a year that same year i was nominated for studio engineer of the year regionally and have been since.
I can say that i feel 95% sure of what is going on in the studio everything.
heck we learned how to read smpte they show you a frame of smpte and you have to be able to read what info is on there.
know i must say that i have interviews manya graduates and few make it mostly because of personality not because they don't know what a compressor does, i've interviewed graduates from sae and they did not know what a compressor was. or had ever punched in on a 2inch. with comments like why do you have to wait for it to rewind in pro fools you just go back. so i say keep you eyes open don't right off full sail like that like any other school its as good as what your willing to put into it.

sorry for the rant.

all the best
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Postby MTAR on Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:26 pm

skatingbasser,
Ive posted about this before, mainly here:

http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB2/viewto ... university

In my opinion, Indiana University's Audio program is top notch. You can get a Bachelor's Degree in classical or multitrack recording, and rather than just learning how gear works, or how to read SMPTE, you learn how to problem solve, how to work with musicians, and you get over 180 hours of hands-on recording experience each semester. The new director, Konrad Strauss, has done amazing things for the program in the past 3 years. He also has tons of engineering experience under his belt and is a very good teacher. The IU audio department also helped land me an internship right here at EA. Anyhow, check it out for yourself:
http://www.music.indiana.edu/department/audio/
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Postby soul_rancher on Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:58 am

this may be of some current relevance:

i attended the School of Audio Engineering in Sydney, Australia in 1996 for my Diploma of Audio Engineering. what seemed lacking most was the lack of available studio time. you basically got about 8 hours a week, and that was if you were quick enough to the paper schedule they hoisted once a week, and was filled within seconds.

the whole process left me with resolve to never be involved in the recording industry. not because of the lack of facilities; i took most thorough advantage of what was available, which for Australia in the mid 90's was top notch. rather, it was the sickening greed and mendacity of SAE's owner, Tom Misner. basically a wanton capitalist, this is the kinda guy who would park his $250,000 custom porsche out the front every day, illegally, in one of the busiest parts of town, and whatever fines had accrued by the end of the day would be paid off an immense list. this fucker had the gall to assert this was some form of socialism; that he was keeping the council's pocket's lined so he could be a rich arrogant brat day after day. needless to say, i felt rather stupid for having worked to earn the ludicrous fee for the course so it could be squandered on some arsehole's porsche. he went on to buy out sony studios 301 in sydney, and has "produced" a bunch of manufactured pop acts.

so my recommendation is, stay the fuck away from SAE. i have absolutely no idea what college is like in the states. i know someone there right now, so i'll get the lowdown sooner or later. JUST DON'T BE GIVING MISNER YOUR MONEY!!!!

that felt goooooooooooooood.
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Postby CarlitosNo on Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:48 pm

fuck, I'm attending this same course in SAE Madrid... But here I have all the studio time I want, at least. That pig Misner is not getting all my money for free.
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Bleh

Postby kgc03 on Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:26 pm

I registered just to reply...

I'm a junior at Florida State University school of music. I'm majoring in Commercial Music and our program here rocks. The difference between here and other schools is that you have to be a musician here. You have to be accepted into the FSU School of Music, which by the way is one of the top in the country among schools like Berklee, Indiana, and Eastman. Plus you get your general Bachelor's degree education as well. I'm planning to go to Graduate School for Recording Arts and my top choices right now are the Conservatory of Recording Arts and Sciences in Arizona, and the Masters of Fine Arts in Recording at Middle Tennessee State University. They both look very solid. Full Sail is lame, expensive and not worth the money. Berklee would be repeating the 4 years I spend here, nothing more but a name, and I personally think FSU's music school is better than Berklee. If Indiana had a graduate program in Recording Arts I'd look there too.

Hope that helps

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Postby paulisdead on Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:17 pm

I'm from Melbourne, Australia and I remember, while I was attending RMIT, being at a gig I was mixing with some 2nd Year SAE students. I was telling them about RMIT’s massive Sound and Acoustics module and was asking them if they did anything similar. They told me they had touched on Acoustics and a bit of mic placement. At that point I pulled out of my bag my assignment, which was 50 pages of logarithms and diagrams. They freaked out!!!

Fuck SAE, it's for bored rich kids - go to the goverment TAFE's and Uni's.
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Postby skatingbasser on Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:24 pm

paulisdead wrote:I'm from Melbourne, Australia and I remember, while I was attending RMIT, being at a gig I was mixing with some 2nd Year SAE students. I was telling them about RMIT’s massive Sound and Acoustics module and was asking them if they did anything similar. They told me they had touched on Acoustics and a bit of mic placement. At that point I pulled out of my bag my assignment, which was 50 pages of logarithms and diagrams. They freaked out!!!

Fuck SAE, it's for bored rich kids - go to the goverment TAFE's and Uni's.


Haha, last week while doing simple resistance calculations some Led Zeppelin drinking game frat boy playing flashgames on his laptop said, "I didn't sign up for this math shit."

The teacher replied, "Actullay dude, you fucking did. The term 'Engineering' is right in the fucking title of the course."

There are a few kids who fit this "bored rich kid" title. But most there have a desire to learn and an understanding that you get out what you put in.
"That man is a head taller than me.

...That may change."
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Postby MTAR on Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:07 am

skatingbasser wrote:
Led Zeppelin drinking game frat boy



how do you play a led zeppelin drinking game? sounds fun.
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Postby thebookofkevin on Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:37 pm

skatingbasser wrote:
paulisdead wrote:I'm from Melbourne, Australia and I remember, while I was attending RMIT, being at a gig I was mixing with some 2nd Year SAE students. I was telling them about RMIT’s massive Sound and Acoustics module and was asking them if they did anything similar. They told me they had touched on Acoustics and a bit of mic placement. At that point I pulled out of my bag my assignment, which was 50 pages of logarithms and diagrams. They freaked out!!!

Fuck SAE, it's for bored rich kids - go to the goverment TAFE's and Uni's.


Haha, last week while doing simple resistance calculations some Led Zeppelin drinking game frat boy playing flashgames on his laptop said, "I didn't sign up for this math shit."

The teacher replied, "Actullay dude, you fucking did. The term 'Engineering' is right in the fucking title of the course."

There are a few kids who fit this "bored rich kid" title. But most there have a desire to learn and an understanding that you get out what you put in.


Where does this mean you wound up then? SAE NY?
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Postby skatingbasser on Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:19 pm

MTAR wrote:
skatingbasser wrote:Led Zeppelin drinking game frat boy
how do you play a led zeppelin drinking game? sounds fun.


Not really. Everytime he talkes about Led Zeppelin I feel like I need a drink.

thebookofkevin wrote:Where does this mean you wound up then? SAE NY?

Yessir.
"That man is a head taller than me.

...That may change."
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Postby paulisdead on Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:44 am

skatingbasser wrote:There are a few kids who fit this "bored rich kid" title. But most there have a desire to learn and an understanding that you get out what you put in.


Well said, man.
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Postby Television Eyes on Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:54 pm

I go to Western Michigan University, and even though they don't offer audio engineering as a major, they have a really great program there. Our instructor is super knowledgable, and has plenty of excperience, and does a really great job about teaching about all aspects of being an engineer (including how to make people like you). I honestly wonder how much more I could learn at another school, because he is so thourough. After all, it really is about just spending time on sessions. If you want to get a degree in something else and still learn a hell of a lot about audio, and get a lot of quality experience in the studio, I highly reccomend coming to Western.
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Postby Kayte R. on Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:43 pm

So here's another question...

Would it be pointless to get some kind of master's in music technology/recording arts after a BSEE? Or would an MSEE make more sense? Basically I want to work in design for audio electronics manufacturers, but they seem to think I'm not audio-y enough. But if I got a music tech master's, would they think I'm not EE-y enough? They probably would. They suck.
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Postby vaka on Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:34 pm

I attended SAE in Solna, Sweden and I can agree that I would like to have had more studio time and that some topics get way too much attention, such as time code formats, noise reduction, CD manufacturing, etc. Sure, they should cover everything (though I feel the manufacturing process of CD's is a complete waste of time), but the diploma is 1 year and that year needs to be spent a bit better.
Though I must say they have some excellent teachers, and basically everyone who works there is just great to deal with.
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Schools in general

Postby Ferrett on Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:50 am

I have been a freelance engineer for 15+ years now and up till about 7 years ago never knew there was schools for this!!! UNTIL I moved to Orlando Fl , here I could not even go around the corner without running into the next big producer. I teach some classes at Fullsail, ARTI. and I have been to SAE to speak. Here is the down-low, You only get what you put into something! I don't care where you learn. Hell I never went to school and i'm doing just fine and pay rent and i'm having the time of my life. The problem I think is most KIDs nowadays spend more time bitching than they do listening. The only advice you are going to get from this forum is from people propping there school cause thats where they went, which I don't see any problem with. If you really want to do this , you can do it no matter where you go!!! Hope to see you out there making records!!!! TAPE RULES!!!
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Postby Daniel Vaccaro on Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:26 pm

Now this school seams to be left out of the loop a lot but I am a graduate of Ex'pression College in Emeryville,CA (across the bay from San Francisco) which used to be part of Oakland. It has all the toys you would want from a trade school, open studio time whenever you can book it w/ 24 hour access to the studios/gear and anything the school has. Fully analog and fully digital studios, or you could run a hybrid session. I am not selling the school, thus far I still believe going out and just doing it is much better than any school because paying off school is something that holds a lot of sound school grads back. Your average grad is paying between $200-$700 per month after graduation.

If you want a accredited bachelors degree Ex'pression is an accredited college, maybe get your masters in business, whatever. The gear was the best you could buy (SSL, Neve, Sound Craft, Yamaha, Digidesign, blah blah blah), but why would you pay the tuition price if it wasn't the best, gear at a school should be the best, no exception, your paying too much money to learn on something your tuition alone could pay for. If a school doesn't have tape machine, fuck it, go somewhere else, analog is the back bone of theory and pro tools is something you can learn on your own time.

#1 Gear: Must be what is being used in the industry now, but also must have broken evil dinosaurs gear from a time long long ago where the led's don't light, the eq's are shot in the channel path and patch points are destroyed. It builds character to be able to trouble shoot and develop workarounds, while a band is wondering why your such an ass whole for wasting there time. Most studios have problems with gear, learning to provide workarounds and prevent problems is half the education.

The fact is the gear is just a tool, learn them and used them ass needed, what to look for is the teachers, and the location. We're in the bay area with a million hyphy kids wanting to lay down rhymes, jazz bands, rock, weirdo hippies.....you have free studio time, it will be one of the only times you can get free time in very nice studios. You must teach yourself by booking clients and if your not reading a book on acoustics then be at school with a band working. Its not this school is so much better than that school, or the people here are so smart and the full sail kids are so dumb, its that individual person, each person goes for a different reason, half my class were shitty engineers, they could run a board but couldn't use a talk back mic because they have no personality or don't know how to be honest to a client when its just not working.

#2 Teachers: Duh, if they don't know shit than why listen to them? Even the bad teachers can be good though. Example would be my old school 70's rocker teacher “dB” who hated pro tools. So he gave us the myths of digital, why he liked analog, etc.....all the stuff you read on message board like this one. but you see, he wasn't looking at them as tools, there are times when 2” is what you need, and times when tab to transient can save you hours. A teacher who thinks logic pro is better then pro tools is going to get you ready for the work force where people still think acid pro is better than an API or that rock must be capture on 456.......learn to believe yourself and let the teachers show you the fundamentals because really thats all school is, its someone pointing you in a direction, its up to you to figure out whats bullshit and whats fact. Don't rely on the teachers to go over everything, you must do your own research and experiments or you will just be regurgitating garbage you never put to the test and you really don't know shit about.

Go to school, bust your ass the whole time you're there, talk to everyone, read everything, listen to everyones opinion and create your own.

Ex'pression College, 24 hour access to everything, accredited bachelors degree, good and (like all colleges) bad teachers, and alumni get free studio time for life.

I've never really posted on a message board about sound schools, but I am sick of hearing only SAE and Full Sail, there are a lot of good schools and bad schools, a lot of good engineers who went to bad schools and good schools with bad engineers. As I said before, you can learn anything on your own, get a job in a studio and read books. Work experience will always dominate college solely based on the fact that most employers don't know anything about your school or how bad/good it was, they want work experience.

I went to Ex'pression, it worked for me, it might fuck you over, you must take a gamble to ever truly know.

P.S. I have been out of school for a month, got not job, and the industry is bleak for the newbies, keep this in mind when your thinking of majors in school, as loving music wont pay your bills. A lot of the work for sound school grades isn't making phat beats or music for that matter, its coffee and boom op for old man gay porn, but there are some factors about your own self you cannot control. I.E can you talk to people, do you enjoy egomaniacs, do you love 4/4 and beat detective, learn to love it all and you might get out alive.

Sorry this is so long, I hope it helps someone.

Dv.
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Postby curry pervert on Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:25 pm

Not relevant to the OP since 2 yrs have passed, but I was always put off SAE from their dumb adverts.

Some kid asleep on a couch, with a tagline that read something like, "Jake gets some sleep after a 12hr mixing and 14hr mastering session with only 2hrs sleep inbetween".

That might sound awesome to some young kid who doesn't know anything yet, but that mix is gonna sound like shit.
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Postby Charlie D on Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:48 pm

My first ever post was sort of about this.
After two years at IPR in Minneapolis, I can say that I feel the education was top notch, but placement has been a pain. The staff is more or less comprised of Minneapolis locals who've made names for themselves in the scene and they're all very friendly and smart, especially within the engineering program, but they (the whole staff) tell you right off the bat that you're not guaranteed a job. Placement regularly decides to send me updates with job leads that would take me to LA, NY, or Nashville, none of which are markets I feel a desire to go to or where I would particularly excel. Having graduated five months ago, I'm already feeling as though I should have gone for a degree in botany or some other usable/marketable skill. I'm also aware that this is the attitude of most college grads: "Fuck, I graduated. Now what?" I'd say this school is fine, and I have no frame of reference for the others you mentioned other than Full Sail, to whom I applied and then reconsidered.
Picking schools can be a major pain in the ass, I wish you the best of luck. I also recommend looking into internet design over audio engineering. There's always a need for internet design, and that can pay your bills while a friend of a friend can take you under the wing and give you an equivalent (and cheaper) education.
Take this with a grain of salt, it's coming from a grizzled little bastard with a shit job.[/url]
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Postby Jolouie on Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:25 pm

I'm currently going to Columbia College Chicago for audio.
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